Carnifexes

[nackanid]

Lets talk carnifexes. The pts is 8th, they might change. I take spore cyst on everything. Devs is always BW because of math and excluded the tail because of them do not seems to contribute that much for the price.



Shooty (2x twin dev)

115 pts, Bs 3+, 24 shots, S6 AP0 D1.

In 9th they will be able to fire in CC which makes is not so bad is the get charged. With only 18'' range they need to get in range but with only minus -1 the can advance without feeling bad.


Mixed shooty

115pts(devs), 116/118 (cannons), Bs 3+, 12 S6 AP+ cannon

Never liked venom cannon because of d3 shots but with assault interseccers looking like being fielded a strangler would make the cut. Against hordes blast is always nice to have.


Mixed skooty/cc

Around 113-120 depending on the config.

The most allround and the configuration that will make damage in all the phases that it operates in. The problem here is that is doesn’t excel in any phase, not even good in any. CC 4 (5 on the charge) attacks is mediocre and shooting to few shots.


Close Combat (tusks and double talons)

100-110pts, 6A, S6, AP-3 Flat 3 damage + tail

Always loved the looks of a cc-carnifex! But are they really that great? Maybe in mass, but one isn’t that much of a threat. Claws is a no-go with modifiers capped at +1. With 9th incoming it looks like tanks is gonna be common so is this the return of cc-carnifex?


Old One Eye

Absolutely loved OOE in 8th and killed so much with him. A real killer but with modifiers capped he is to expensive. Maybe if he dropped to 120-150 but maybe not even then. With the new detachments-system, HQ-slots might be filled with other things.


So, what do you think? Is carnifexes competitive in 9th or is this just in my dreams…?

[infornography]

All depends on points. If they go up too much they won't be. If they stay relatively the same as now they will be. I suspect the cannons will go up too much in points, but we will see.

I expect to see some shooty fexen with acid maws running around. Expensive but truly capable in both shooting and melee.

Also I think EVERY fex needs a bone mace unless the points for that go up a lot. It is cheap and adds melee punch in an edition where our fexen are likely to spend a lot more time in or near melee.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Agreed on the above. Except that I always miss with my bone maces somehow! A friend asked why I brought them and I said that they were too points. His response was "oh. Good call then".

I'd also say that using deathspitters is better in jormungandr so you don't have to advance so you can keep your cover save.

[jdot]

Jul 9, 2020 14:21:17 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Agreed on the above. Except that I always miss with my bone maces somehow! A friend asked why I brought them and I said that they were too points. His response was "oh. Good call then".

I'd also say that using deathspitters is better in jormungandr so you don't have to advance so you can keep your cover save.

ivehad Jormungadr leave a really bad taste in my mouth recently. their whole schtick is to pretty much always have cover but now space marines just have a million ways to ignore cover. and with everyone playing some sort of space marines these days it feels like the whole hive fleet is just bad now.
but who knows maybe theyll get some love since the changes to cover in 9th.  i have yet to hear how jormungandr cover is going to change, and what kind of cover they are going to have but they are gonna have to do something unless they actively want people to stop playing nyds lol

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Jul 9, 2020 17:04:06 GMT jdot said:

Jul 9, 2020 14:21:17 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Agreed on the above. Except that I always miss with my bone maces somehow! A friend asked why I brought them and I said that they were too points. His response was "oh. Good call then".

I'd also say that using deathspitters is better in jormungandr so you don't have to advance so you can keep your cover save.

ivehad Jormungadr leave a really bad taste in my mouth recently. their whole schtick is to pretty much always have cover but now space marines just have a million ways to ignore cover. and with everyone playing some sort of space marines these days it feels like the whole hive fleet is just bad now.
but who knows maybe theyll get some love since the changes to cover in 9th.  i have yet to hear how jormungandr cover is going to change, and what kind of cover they are going to have but they are gonna have to do something unless they actively want people to stop playing nyds lol

I hear that. Mostly I've seen imperial fists ignoring cover. They're not too popular in my area and the flavor of the month players were playing other flavors of marines. For the most part, jormungandr has been good for me, by greatly increasing how my army can survive.

I did encounter one marine army with lots of heavy weapons that shot 6 jormungandr carnifex off the board turn one. Needless to say I lost that game.

[zimko]

The modifier cap didn't really effect Old One Eye himself since he has a WS 3+. It would only effect other carnifexes who's WS 4+ means they could never get better than a 3+ (which they'd get anyway from charging) EXCEPT for fexes with crushing claws.

So I think Old One Eye hasn't changed. He's still a great suicide nuke.

[nackanid]

Jul 9, 2020 17:21:35 GMT zimko said:

The modifier cap didn't really effect Old One Eye himself since he has a WS 3+. It would only effect other carnifexes who's WS 4+ means they could never get better than a 3+ (which they'd get anyway from charging) EXCEPT for fexes with crushing claws.

So I think Old One Eye hasn't changed. He's still a great suicide nuke.

The thing with OOE were the extra attacks. On 4+ on the charge with MST, oh my god that was nice! 

So yeah, it hit OOE very hard. 

[zimko]

Ah I did forget about that. So really there's not much downside to just using the crushing claws instead since you're hitting on 2s anyway and getting explodes on 5s either way.

[beetlejuice]

I can’t understand how claws and talons are both 3 dmg. Claws should be 4, D6 or d3+3 imo

[kazetanade]

Jul 9, 2020 17:04:06 GMT jdot said:

Jul 9, 2020 14:21:17 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Agreed on the above. Except that I always miss with my bone maces somehow! A friend asked why I brought them and I said that they were too points. His response was "oh. Good call then".

I'd also say that using deathspitters is better in jormungandr so you don't have to advance so you can keep your cover save.

ivehad Jormungadr leave a really bad taste in my mouth recently. their whole schtick is to pretty much always have cover but now space marines just have a million ways to ignore cover. and with everyone playing some sort of space marines these days it feels like the whole hive fleet is just bad now.
but who knows maybe theyll get some love since the changes to cover in 9th.  i have yet to hear how jormungandr cover is going to change, and what kind of cover they are going to have but they are gonna have to do something unless they actively want people to stop playing nyds lol

Only Imperial fist ignore cover, and Centurions ignore cover. Nothing else in std Space Marines ignore cover. I suggest actuslly reading their codex to get a feel of their powerlevel and capabilities. There's a lot, but there isn't everything under the sun.

GK ignore cover through a spell as special mention.

[nackanid]

Jul 9, 2020 19:15:13 GMT zimko said:

Ah I did forget about that. So really there's not much downside to just using the crushing claws instead since you're hitting on 2s anyway and getting explodes on 5s either way.

He hits on 3s with the claws and get extra attacks on 6s in 9th. Thats the whole point why he isn't worth it anymore. He gets new attacks on 5+ with MST in 9th. Or did I misunderstand you?

In 8th, sure he were a beast but now no. 

[beetlejuice]

Jul 10, 2020 9:33:14 GMT nackanid said:

Jul 9, 2020 19:15:13 GMT zimko said:

Ah I did forget about that. So really there's not much downside to just using the crushing claws instead since you're hitting on 2s anyway and getting explodes on 5s either way.

He hits on 3s with the claws and get extra attacks on 6s in 9th. Thats the whole point why he isn't worth it anymore. He gets new attacks on 5+ with MST in 9th. Or did I misunderstand you?

In 8th, sure he were a beast but now no. 

He gets +1 on the charge, +1 from aura, -1 for claws so it’s net +1 for 2+ hit, 5+ exploding so not quite that bad. 4+ exploding, reroll 1s with talons in 8th was better though.

[nackanid]

Jul 10, 2020 11:06:18 GMT beetlejuice said:

Jul 10, 2020 9:33:14 GMT nackanid said:

He hits on 3s with the claws and get extra attacks on 6s in 9th. Thats the whole point why he isn't worth it anymore. He gets new attacks on 5+ with MST in 9th. Or did I misunderstand you?

In 8th, sure he were a beast but now no. 

He gets +1 on the charge, +1 from aura, -1 for claws so it’s net +1 for 2+ hit, 5+ exploding so not quite that bad. 4+ exploding, reroll 1s with talons in 8th was better though.

Aaaaaand in 9th it is capped at +1. Thats the whole point of my argument 

[zimko]

Jul 10, 2020 11:52:27 GMT nackanid said:

Jul 10, 2020 11:06:18 GMT beetlejuice said:

He gets +1 on the charge, +1 from aura, -1 for claws so it’s net +1 for 2+ hit, 5+ exploding so not quite that bad. 4+ exploding, reroll 1s with talons in 8th was better though.

Aaaaaand in 9th it is capped at +1. Thats the whole point of my argument 

The net total is capped at +1. He will still hit on 2s with crushing claws.

[nackanid]

Jul 10, 2020 14:12:18 GMT zimko said:

Jul 10, 2020 11:52:27 GMT nackanid said:

Aaaaaand in 9th it is capped at +1. Thats the whole point of my argument 

The net total is capped at +1. He will still hit on 2s with crushing claws.

Sure, but its the extra attacks you want Instead of 15-18 wound easy he does around 9... You took him for killing knights, it’s not even close now. And yes, you fought twice with him.