New 9th rumor (revenge of the Titanic)

[gloomfang]

As this is not official I figured I'd keep it out of the 9th. Some playtesters mentioned on a podcast that superheavy and titanic creatures will have a max damage characteristic. That means that you can only do X wounds per turn. Gaz already has a version of this with is 4W max rule.

It might be nice for the folks with hierodules, but that might make knights more balanced with all the rules we have seen making them look like never takes.

Please add a good amount of salt.

[kwisatzhaderach]

That would be pretty unfortunate if true. While I like the rule because it makes certain models survivable, it's a bit too "gamey" for my tastes. I'd rather they just lower the lethality of 40k in general.

This rule would also be pretty terrible for Genestealer Cults since they can no longer one-shot knights as easily. I'll be sure to drink some extra water to offset the salt! 

On the other hand, have playtester leaks been wrong about anything? I know Reece messed up the heavy-in-combat rule. 

[swarm492]

Jun 29, 2020 0:02:44 GMT kwisatzhaderach said:

That would be pretty unfortunate if true. While I like the rule because it makes certain models survivable, it's a bit too "gamey" for my tastes. I'd rather they just lower the lethality of 40k in general.

This rule would also be pretty terrible for Genestealer Cults since they can no longer one-shot knights as easily. I'll be sure to drink some extra water to offset the salt! 

On the other hand, have playtester leaks been wrong about anything? I know Reece messed up the heavy-in-combat rule. 

While true that the cult couldn't nuke knights anymore I think that this will help GW balance the unit/units. If GW knows a minimum number of turns a unit will be operating on the table regardless of the opposition, it would be much easier to evaluate that units impact and gather data.

Overall I think a rule like this would help create a strong foundation for balancing larger units

[beetlejuice]

So a pure knights list would be operating at 100% efficiency for 2-4 turns? (maybe degrading a little). That is a lot of dmg output that will be hard to survive...

[sniddy]

It would be gamey - but so's Gaz but at least he's not a monster like a titan

...and for armies that excel in one field, GSC for melee, T'au for ranged...it's a real annoyance, and army wide it could give them a HUGE boost.

[beetlejuice]

Gaz is fine, it’s one model T7 12W. Easy to kill in 1 turn for tyranids (smite, shoot, fight). A 24W knight is a different story, a full army of such knights would be seriously broken, just barely getting bracketed turn 1 and that’s only for armies that do reliable dmg in 3 phases. Tau would get their first kill like turn 5. Way too easy for the knight player to kill all S7-S9 weapons/units and then it’s GG. OOE useless, fight on death useless.

Maybe it could work with maximum 50% of max wounds taken per turn. Anything that regains d3 wounds would still not be killable until t3...

[tomb]

Jun 28, 2020 22:55:07 GMT gloomfang said:

As this is not official I figured I'd keep it out of the 9th. Some playtesters mentioned on a podcast that superheavy and titanic creatures will have a max damage characteristic. That means that you can only do X wounds per turn. Gaz already has a version of this with is 4W max rule.

It might be nice for the folks with hierodules, but that might make knights more balanced with all the rules we have seen making them look like never takes.

Please add a good amount of salt.

Very interesting.
knights will struggle with the new terrain rules and objectives that need troops/infantry to score. Plus knights are no longer able to gain cover and changes to points will place them into three model armies. 
Wounds 'caps' will help. 
Will knights be able to shoot into combat? Will they gain obsec? Will they be able to retreat without paying cp?

On a different note, Magnus desperately needs a rule like Gazz's.

Marine armies have grown so strong that they can wipe Knights and Primarchs with ease.

Pass the vinegar!

[zimko]

If they follow the Gaz formula (12/3 = 4) then I guess a Knight would take 8 wounds per phase (24/3 = 8). Tyranids operate in all phases of the game, and so can still kill a knight in a single turn. But a lot of armies would struggle.

[xsquidz]

Jun 29, 2020 13:43:53 GMT zimko said:

If they follow the Gaz formula (12/3 = 4) then I guess a Knight would take 8 wounds per phase (24/3 = 8). Tyranids operate in all phases of the game, and so can still kill a knight in a single turn. But a lot of armies would struggle.

Some armies like Tau and GSC would have zero chance against knights I think, but a lot of armies would suffer huge.  I really can't see this being real.

[niiai]

Jun 29, 2020 13:45:52 GMT xsquidz said:

Jun 29, 2020 13:43:53 GMT zimko said:

If they follow the Gaz formula (12/3 = 4) then I guess a Knight would take 8 wounds per phase (24/3 = 8). Tyranids operate in all phases of the game, and so can still kill a knight in a single turn. But a lot of armies would struggle.

Some armies like Tau and GSC would have zero chance against knights I think, but a lot of armies would suffer huge.  I really can't see this being real.

GSC can do things in psykick, shooting and melee. Arguably with one of our stratagems we can do things in the movement phase as well.

[N.I.B.]

I loathe Knights and would hate this.

[xsquidz]

Jun 30, 2020 10:02:20 GMT niiai said:

Jun 29, 2020 13:45:52 GMT xsquidz said:

Some armies like Tau and GSC would have zero chance against knights I think, but a lot of armies would suffer huge.  I really can't see this being real.

GSC can do things in psykick, shooting and melee. Arguably with one of our stratagems we can do things in the movement phase as well.

You really think GSC can do 8 MW in the psyker phase?  Imagine if the guy has 3-4 knights.  If you have to do 8 in each phase max, you won't even kill 1 in a turn.  Then they use the strat to top bracket it.  if you think ANY GSC list could beat that, please post it because I think you are dreaming.  Also doing damage in the movement phase is minor and it costs 3 CP and you are then screwing over your best charging unit that wants to use perfect ambush.

Please post this dream list that can do 8W in multiple phases against multiple knights using ONLY GSC.  I do appreciate your optimism however.

[infornography]

There is still a LOT we don't know. Maybe GSC will benefit more than we think from the new terrain rules. Maybe getting a titan tied up in melee will be more impactful than it is currently. Maybe the number of armies that are hard counters for knights will make taking a list of nothing but knights too much of a risk, but just taking one could provide an edge with this new rule. Maybe their utter inability to pursue objectives or cover ground will ultimately be crippling to their ability to win games.

Seriously there are too many unknowns to really assess the impact that this kind of rule would have and I think it could be a very good thing to have more of. Make certain units much more able to impact the game rather than just a hard target to light up for one or two turns before it is downgraded to terrain.

For example, I would love to see Swarmy get this rule.

[kazetanade]

Jun 30, 2020 12:36:33 GMT xsquidz said:

Jun 30, 2020 10:02:20 GMT niiai said:

GSC can do things in psykick, shooting and melee. Arguably with one of our stratagems we can do things in the movement phase as well.

You really think GSC can do 8 MW in the psyker phase?  Imagine if the guy has 3-4 knights.  If you have to do 8 in each phase max, you won't even kill 1 in a turn.  Then they use the strat to top bracket it.  if you think ANY GSC list could beat that, please post it because I think you are dreaming.  Also doing damage in the movement phase is minor and it costs 3 CP and you are then screwing over your best charging unit that wants to use perfect ambush.

Please post this dream list that can do 8W in multiple phases against multiple knights using ONLY GSC.  I do appreciate your optimism however.

Bladed Cog Mining Lasers/Seismic (shots off in shooting + Psychic count as 1 phase)
Hive Cult Ridgerunners
FAE Saws.

8W per phase is realistically possible. It's just not practical, but neither are capped damage Knights. Relax and take a break from the salt mines, let's wait 2 more weeks for 9th to be out

[draaen]

So a bloodthirster has 16 wounds and their exalted greater demon special rule makes it so they can only lose 8 in a phase. So half may be a breakpoint. I mean it would make sense if Ghaz was tougher he is the toughest ork after all.

Definitely my Tau would find this a powerful ability to deal with. General strategy is light them up, maybe put on additional AP on 6's to wound or +1 to wound if Tau sept. They are just tough to kill and really deadly to Tau so it is important to focus it down and invest in buffing up your Tau so that they can be effective in that role. Make no mistake Tau are effective as is at it. Making that investment twice would be painful.

We shall see though. Might not happen or maybe it is at a reasonable break point and it helps out knights. I personally would like to see the lethality go down this edition.