Trygon\tryprime\mawloc worth the points?

[hiveman75]

What's your guys take on these models. They can dish out some great damage and excellent harrass but i see them getting shut down before they can really do any large damage a lot. Are they worth the 100+ point risk?

[irondreddknight]

I only consider a trygon if im running behemoth (re roll makes it less swingy) or jormangandr for the tactical flexibility. I think this is the real power of the trygon, there's a lot of potential.

Mawlocs.. I'm ashamed to say I've e yet to use one in 8th. But I think there's place for 1 with the MW strat.

My biggest issue with them is they're only T6 and yet, look at the size of them!

[niiai]

In general no, in my limited opinion.

The mawlock does not fit his fluffy role witch is a shame. The rules does not pan out for him. Although Ibdo belive the BoB stratgem helps him a lott. He is good as a dumb body coming up. But he dies the following oponents phase, so you need your army to take advantage of that.

If our gunlines where better he could be a nice speedbump combined with biovores that prevents movement.

Trygons... As somebody mentioned the behemot trygon is the best one. I have not done the math, but getting 8 on a charge with a reroll is doable. (I belive kraken psykick power does the same with unlimited range. Just have resonanse barn to enshure the casting.)

As for good units to transport mostly devilgaunts in my opinion. Perhaps behemot adrenal glands hormagaunts but that feels exspensive.

Also remember the mawlock has few favorable combat oponents. The trygon also has a lot of bad matchups. Anything with a powerfist is hard. They are both higly specialised for very nieche roles.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Mawlocs are ok castle crashers but need the strategem from blood of baal to be effective. Their main issue for dealing mortal wounds is that it's only a 1-2" range. If your opponent groups up heavily they can work well. It's also a big scary looking monster and can lock down a unit if your opponent let's it sit for a turn so they have to put firepower into killing it if they're a gunline army. I don't know if they make their points back but can be used to dictate some of the flow of the battle.

I'm not 100% sold on trygons I've mainly used them as a troop taxi, but they're 50/50 on getting into combat. If they do get in, they can do good work but if they don't they'll usually be shot off the table quickly.

[kazetanade]

Are we talking hyper efficient cutting edge tourneyplay? No they aren't worth any points.

List concept for casual or "usable"? 3 mawlocs is a thing. Watch Tau players curse in frustration when you keep bashing their drones with MWs every turn for 3 turns. Marines aren't going to be happy either.

Trygon is in a weird situation where they are decent vehicle wreckers. The troops they carry with them will want other targets, so you gotta satisfy both. If you consider the Tryon a transport, it's basically a pod with better stats, then you pay 90pts or so for the combat monster portion.

[infornography]

I consider Trygons to be good transports/distractionfexs. I don't count on them hitting combat but I tell ya, they WILL attract heavy firepower. So if you manage to hide your OOE or Swarmy on the approach round one, you can pop this bad boy up round 2 to distract some big guns away from them and give them a chance at wrecking house.

On the off chance your Trygon actually sees combat, he can do some serious work, but I think just thinking of him as a high quality transport that draws enemy high quality firepower is probably more realistic.

[vejby]

Behemoth trygon with glands, sacs and murderous size seems like one of the most ideal murder machines coming in from deep strike, provided there is a clear path to a high value target...

[niiai]

You can also have a trygon prime, and then upgrade those claws to relics, have ymgal factor or have the BoB glands.

[vejby]

May 19, 2020 11:30:50 GMT niiai said:

You can also have a trygon prime, and then upgrade those claws to relics, have ymgal factor or have the BoB glands.

It can't have the relic scything talons as it does not have the proper type of talons for that (monstrous vs. massive) and ymgarl is so random. BoB is more of a sidegrade since it loses the +1 to charge range in return for the extra d6, drop lowest. Murderous size together with voracious appetite strat puts him right at the spot to hurt T8 as a homing missile. Putting a relic on him just loses the relic together with the adaptation.

If I were running a custom list with the +1 to hit on charges trait, the BoB glands would be a good relic with a prime to allow those 3d6 charges for an accompanying unit, though.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

May 19, 2020 11:30:50 GMT niiai said:

You can also have a trygon prime, and then upgrade those claws to relics, have ymgal factor or have the BoB glands.

You cannot upgrade the trygon primes talons to a relic. The scythes of tyran can only be placed on scything talons or monstrous scything talons. Trygons have massive scything talons instead.

You can upgrade the trygon prime with the adaptive physiology of murderous size.

[LordPathos]

Remember the silly charging strats we got from Blood of Baal. Charge something that lost models to shooting or when charging something that a synapse creature is in CC with.

[Master Chief]

I like my Trygon prime with the dermic symbiosis.

That invo 5+ it is amazing and so is the thing that operates at full capacity until it has 3 wounds remaining.

Than according to the opponent I decide what to keep in deep strike with it.

If the opponent has a lot of light or medium infantry I keep inside 30 devilgants.

If it is a marine or similar (with eventual thunderfires) I keep inside 20 genestealers and then I start using pshychic powers or stratagems to have an easier charge than a simple 9+.

I know it is a risk, but the alternative is to have 2 genestealers squads stopped by a single thunderfire and a single command point.

And to be honest it is not that bad, it is very fun to play and I love the model.

[hivemine]

I rock a prime with dermic symbiosis, and the arachnacyte glad. Usually have him bring in Warriors with boneswords and spinefists, creating a HUGE kite set up with the new BoB strats. The Trygone/prime are only useful with dermic symbiosis i find for the longer top wount bracket output. But you do have to feed the prime CP every turn for best results. Voracious appatite and the regen D-3 wounds strat.

[kazetanade]

To be honest guys, if the Scythes were flat 3, (should really be 3+d3 but whatever) adding Murderous Size, they'd actually be viable in the heavy armor destructor role. With 7A of 3+ to hit, we're looking at 4-5H, with 4+ rr for 3-4W, no save unless invul, for 12-16W average. Issue with their scythes is D6 damage could be 6dmg, or it could be 4 sets of 2 damage.

The D6 damage mechanic IMO was probably the least brightest Idea of 8th Edition.

[asvic]

Jun 2, 2020 5:09:46 GMT kazetanade said:

To be honest guys, if the Scythes were flat 3, (should really be 3+d3 but whatever) adding Murderous Size, they'd actually be viable in the heavy armor destructor role. With 7A of 3+ to hit, we're looking at 4-5H, with 4+ rr for 3-4W, no save unless invul, for 12-16W average. Issue with their scythes is D6 damage could be 6dmg, or it could be 4 sets of 2 damage.

The D6 damage mechanic IMO was probably the least brightest Idea of 8th Edition.

So, some math to MAYBE rehabilitate d6 weapons.



All calculations against 7t 3+ target

Trygon - 6% do nothing, 73% 5+ wounds, 49% 8+ wounds, 23% 12+ wounds

Trygon, rr wounds - 1% do nothing, 77% 8+ wounds, 51% 12+ wounds

Trygon, size - ~0% do nothing, 75% 12+ wounds

Trygon, size, rr - 94% 12+ wounds



So it's pretty viable against them even without upgrades if you are spending cp on him, provided that we make the charge.



Lets look at 8t 3+

Trygon - 18% do nothing, 76% 2+ wounds, 53% 5+ wounds, 22% 9+ wounds

Trygon, rr wounds - 4% do nothing, 72% 6+ wounds, 49% 9+ wounds , 23% 12+ wounds

Trygon, size - 3% do nothing, 75% 8+ wounds , 52% 12+ wounds, 25% 17+ wounds, 5% 24+ wounds

Trygon, size, rr - 84% 12+ wounds , 48% 19+ wounds, 23% 24+ wounds



So... it has applications? But I don't want to compare in to a SMASH FLYRANT right now.