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Post by iniquity on May 8, 2020 12:57:32 GMT
So i just played a game against sisters/guard soup, my opponent had 3 squads of repentia, a load of sisters 2 in rhinos, celestine, a guy that makes ppl auto advance 6" and a load of characters. and a guard detatchment with a load of scions and a basalisk with the arti formation. (hiding in the big ruins in his deployment) I went first on scorched earth out from CA2019 Turn 1: I pushed up the board, got a turn 1 charge off through a ruin and tried to spread my stealers out as much as i could, i (please do not swear) up the combat apparently by leaving my stealers .1 of an inch too close so that my opponent could activate into me, lesson learned, measure better. I used metabolic overdrive to push another squad of hormagaunts up. CP Usage: Opportunistic advance (1) Metabolic Overdrive (1) (Reroll catalyst on the stealers), Reroll the failed 5" charge on the stealers. My Turn 1 end (image)Opponents turn 1: he disembarked his repentia from the rhino and reloaded it with a second squad, cleared out my stealers and picked up a squad of gants on my left flank. Turn 2: Seeing that i could get a wrap on the astropath guarding my opponents objective on the edge who was standing next to 1 model from a guard squad with the rest on top of a box i set up a sling, i cleared out some sisters pushing the middle objective on my left flank with my exocrine and hive guard, slung my stealers onto the objective and got the wrap, i killed the unit of repentia that was disembarked and put the rest of my attacks on the guard squad (thank you lone guardsman not on the box) CP usage, opportunistic advance (1) reroll on catalyst (1) My Turn 2 (End) (image) Opponents turn 2: Repentia disembark from the rhino and 8 of them kill my stealers in one round of combat through catalyst and he picked up another squad of gants. Game was pretty much over from here. My opponents turn 2 (Image)
What things can i do differently, is there anything that stands out as being out of place? He had a load of deep striking sisters with flamers that could shoot when they arrive etc hense the gaunts at the back. Im starting to think the malanthrope just isnt worth his points. I'm working short of information on sisters, so I'm going to be making some assumptions - they may yield mistakes in the game in your knowledge, feel free to correct/point out, but hopefully it can give you a bit of an idea of what else you could have done. TURN ONE So first thing is that you're going first against a very tight army of mostly anti-infantry - you're looking at 1 Basilisk for anti-tank, meaning your Exocrene is invincible to shooting once the Bassi is down. You're going first, which means you get 1 turn of action before your Exocrene gets down'ed. It also gives you a rotation before eating the restrict movement strategem. Your opponent knows this, and has deployed most of his forces centrally, meaning if you T1 charge him, you might kill a unit, but you'll suffer the loss of that unit. I assume Repentia are FLY and 12" movement, so side wraps would have also met a similar fate (although with Catalyst you could very likely survive a few chicks trying to wound you on S3, so he'd have to burn both Repentias). Assuming Repentia are actually heavy guns and not FLY, then they're not even a consideration. In essence, this leaves you with 3 options: 1. Charge the middle line and try to kill as much as you can with your Genestealers, then effect the super strategem combo to either cause even MORE devestation, or to run away and wrap a side. How effective this is would be determined by how much anti-infantry overwatch he has, and whether they are full rerolls or rr1s. Considering Celestine is suspected down middle, all the sisters have a 5++ (or 4++ possibly due to chapter?) and the guardsmen get a 6++, I THINK* they get an FNP somewhere, so your charge is going to end up killing way less than expected, and even if you do kill everything, Celestine Heroic Intervenes and screws up your plans (she's hard to kill, and she comes back - Genestealers do not like her nor her invuls). Best case, 2 Sister/Guard Units + Celestine dead. Worst case, 3/4 of a unit dead and GS locked in combat, about to be blendered by Celestine. 2. Get a side charge on the Basilisk (who is hidden, so I dont know what's standing between the GS and the Basi), or on the objective, and try to hold it over the next turn. This would yield you less damage impact since there's nothing important on either sides other than the basilisk, but create a huge pressure that your opponent has to clear. For the objective, if you raze that objective, his game is over, so he cant let you keep it until your turn again. For the Basi, He cant afford to leave the Basilisk stuck in combat, because that's his only way to kill the Exocrene (Celestine isnt going to murder him anytime soon). It's also the best way to kill the Hive Guard. Both of these are going to be killer performers after 3 turns of shooting, since Exocrenes will kill Power Armor chicks deader than dead (they have invuls I think, so less effective, but still very dead) and HG will mince everything in his army, and it's even safe for you to push the HG up to the 2nd ruin since he has no long range guns to kill you with (assuming Repentia are heavy guns and can reach HG, then moving up the middle is a bit more risky, but the GS side wrap is safe and clean). I'm not sure if the Exo can get into range to even shoot, but assuming he cant, then the best play here probably would have been to push him and HG up and go in on the Bassi to stop it shooting. 3. Do nothing. Keep most of your guys out of line of sight, holding back behind the ruins, with Hormagants/Termagants and Rippers being used to push out on these objectives. If I'm not reading wrong, he cant get rapidfire on you if your chaff model is sitting 3" away from either No Mans Land objectives (This is short edge deployment with 24" deployment depth and another 12" for centre of table, right? It looks like he didnt deploy on the line, meaning he'd have to move quite a bit to get 3" past the line to get RF range). That means he cant wipe a 25 man unit, and you will definitely claim that objective. You can get 2 units up on it on the neutrals. This will put you at a 3-1 advantage every turn you maintain it, so by T3 it becomes 6-2, then T4 it's 9-3. Just by denying him easy kills you will have to pressure him to move forward and try to fight these objectives away from you, putting him in easy access range of Genestealers, and the best part, they're separated, so they dont both get Celestine's buffs and reroll auras, and are easier to chow down on without risking a tonne in backlash. Assuming you took the ideal position of: Move HG up, move Exo up, kill both Rhinos, got a GS unit into the Bassi and killed it, and wrapped something, you're probably sitting on a 4-2vp lead, since both of you will score First Strike. You'll be down 8cp? So you have enough for 1 more phase of carnage. Him conversely will be looking at no big guns, a GS unit in high priority position to dispose of, and some 12" FLYgirls and the rest are 6" footsloggers who will take a veeeeery long time to reach objectives, and 3 objectives to contest. TURN TWO Based on what I see, it's a castle player. Taking off from my turn 1, he'll pool the Repentia to kill the GS (maybe only 1 unit). Or, he'll Celestine into the GS and double Repentia to kill one of your units, which will probably fail still. So you'll have 1 half dead or almost dead Hormagant, a dead GS, and everything else still in position. He might push the rest of his army up, but it'll still be too far for RF - so one unit of Hormagants gets Rippers popped behind them to secure that over next turn, and the other one gets Rippers, Hormagants sitting on it. The other GS now goes for his exposed flank (the objective in his zone), or if the Repentia pushed up by themselves, go in on the backline while your guns blow the Repentia away. TURN THREE He cant catch up. GGWP. *Note I'm making assumptions based on the summary list in the front and what I can see on the board - I didnt see the deepstriking flamers (I'm not aware of Sisters having flamers that can reach on DS.) The gaunts at the back and on the sides in that case is of course good - I'd use the unit of gaunts at the back and Rippers at the sides, and try to deny him any purchase down the middle. Thanks for the reply, the guy was kind enough to send me his list. I think holding back would have definitely been better just to try and split him up. The basilisk was like tripple bubble wrapped and there was no way i was getting it. I didnt want to hold back because i was really worried that the basilisk would just tear me appart, either going for the swarm lord or the HG. and Yeah, he did have a 4++ Supposedly it was the seraphim that have a strat to double their range and shoot when they come in. My sisters knowledge is still pretty limited. My opponents list: ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [72 PL, 3CP, 1,342pts] +++ Configuration +Battle-forged CP [3CP]Detachment CP [5CP]Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose + Stratagems +Open the Reliquaries [-2CP]: 2x Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy + No Force Org Slot +Inquisitor [4 PL, -1CP, 59pts]: Blade of the Ordo, Bolt pistol, Ordo Xenos, Power sword, Stratagem: Inquisitorial Mandate, Xenos - Esoteric Lore Repentia Superior [2 PL, 35pts]+ HQ +Canoness [3 PL, 53pts]: Bolt pistol, Brazier of Holy Fire, Chainsword, Relic: Beneficence Celestine [8 PL, 160pts]+ Troops +Battle Sister Squad [6 PL, 89pts]. 5x Battle Sister: 5x Bolt pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Frag & Krak grenades . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Sister Superior: Boltgun, Hand Flamer Battle Sister Squad [6 PL, 89pts]. 5x Battle Sister: 5x Bolt pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Frag & Krak grenades . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Sister Superior: Boltgun, Hand Flamer Battle Sister Squad [6 PL, 77pts]. 5x Battle Sister: 5x Bolt pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Frag & Krak grenades . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter . Sister Superior: Boltgun, Hand Flamer + Elites +Celestian Squad [6 PL, 114pts]. 6x Celestian: 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Boltgun, 6x Frag & Krak grenades . Celestian Superior: Boltgun, Hand Flamer, Power sword . Celestian w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis . Celestian w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter . Celestian w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter Imagifier [2 PL, -2CP, 45pts]: Heroine in the Making, Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Tale of the Stoic, Tale of the Warrior, Venerated Saint Preacher [1 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol Sisters Repentia [5 PL, 117pts]. 9x Sisters Repentia: 9x Penitent Eviscerator Sisters Repentia [5 PL, 104pts]. 8x Sisters Repentia: 8x Penitent Eviscerator Sisters Repentia [5 PL, 117pts]. 9x Sisters Repentia: 9x Penitent Eviscerator + Fast Attack +Seraphim Squad [7 PL, 119pts]. 7x Seraphim: 14x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades . Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Plasma pistol . Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Hand Flamers . Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Hand Flamers + Dedicated Transport +Sororitas Rhino [3 PL, 67pts]: Storm bolter Sororitas Rhino [3 PL, 67pts]: Storm bolter
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [21 PL, 3CP, 303pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment CP [5CP]Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian + Stratagems +Imperial Commander's Armoury [-1CP]: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest Tank Ace [-1CP]+ HQ +Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Relic: Kurov's Aquila Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Warlord, WT: Implacable Determination + Troops +Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]. 9x Guardsman: 9x Lasgun . Sergeant: Laspistol Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]. 9x Guardsman: 9x Lasgun . Sergeant: Laspistol Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]. 9x Guardsman: 9x Lasgun . Sergeant: Laspistol + Elites +Astropath [1 PL, 15pts]: Laspistol, Psychic Maelstrom + Heavy Support +Basilisks [7 PL, 108pts]. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [19 PL, 4CP, 354pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment CP [5CP]Regimental Doctrine: 133rd Lambdan Lions + HQ +Tempestor Prime [3 PL, -1CP, 40pts]: Progeny of Conflict, Relic: The Laurels of Command, Tempestus Command Rod, WT (133rd Lambdan Lions): Keys to the Armoury Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 40pts]: Plasma Pistol + Troops +Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 36pts]. 4x Scion: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Hot-shot Lasgun . Tempestor: Bolt pistol, Chainsword Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 119pts]. 5x Scion: 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 119pts]. 5x Scion: 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol ++ Total: [112 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++Created with BattleScribe
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Post by iniquity on May 10, 2020 22:59:47 GMT
Continuing my list development as I’m really not sure that malanthropes are worth their points.
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [57 PL, 830pts, 8CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Detachment CP [5CP]
Hive Fleet: Kraken
+ HQ +
Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Power: Synaptic Lure
The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: The Horror
+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 216pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 18x Scything Talons . 18x Genestealer: 18x Rending Claws
Genestealers [16 PL, 216pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 18x Scything Talons . 18x Genestealer: 18x Rending Claws
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts] . 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [35 PL, 591pts, 5CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment CP [5CP]
Hive Fleet: Kraken
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 218pts]: Pathogenesis, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Instinctive Killer, Wings
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Catalyst
+ Troops +
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 125pts] . 25x Hormagaunt: 25x Scything Talons
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 125pts] . 25x Hormagaunt: 25x Scything Talons
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts] . 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
++ Patrol Detachment (Tyranids) [34 PL, 579pts, -1CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Hive Fleet: Kronos
+ Stratagems +
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Symbiostorm
+ Troops +
Termagants [6 PL, 76pts] . 19x Termagant (Fleshborer): 19x Fleshborer
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [13 PL, 258pts] . Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance . 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Exocrine [11 PL, 155pts]
++ Total: [126 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
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Post by kazetanade on May 12, 2020 10:31:37 GMT
Do you find great use for the double Devs Flyrant build?
If not, here are 2 suggestions I would make:
1: Try the SuperFlyrant. Without Scythe of Tyran it isnt as* fearsome, but it's still plenty fearsome with 5A 3+ rr1s S7 AP-4 4D. SoT just makes you capable of dueling Knights/other T8 things, and have larger spike potential due to 6s explode. SoT also lets you tag a gun on it, which is not as relevant due to his gun options being supportive at best. This is a fantastic suicide support piece that can be used to 1: snipe specific units or targets, 2: create target priority issues, 3: DS to create pressure on the enemy in their movement patterns. Since it doesnt have SoT, you can choose to tag it with Chameleonic which is considered our pre-BOB BiS, or with Arachnyte Gland if you choose to DS so that it comes down with a confirm 3d6 (potentially rerollable) charge. If you chose to tag it with Chameleonic, you could seriously consider keeping that Malanthrope (who is a bit pricey, yes) since the Malanthrope gives you a somewhat hard to kill Character that can sit on objectives while still being relevant by providing your gribbles with some protection. When you snipe enemy source of buffs, the Malanthrope effect suddenly becomes way better. Neurothropes and BL I have always found to be good throwaway units to get something done (killing a Captain, tanking a SmashCap, drawing enemy fire), since they actually want to close in towards the enemy usually. If you dont want to take Chameleonic though, then I wouldnt bother with the Malanthrope since you dont have enough things you'd want to protect (and that you'd protect well). Some Flyrant loadouts you can try: Flyrant with Double ScyTals, Chameleonic, Murderous Size, slungshot by Swarmlord; Flyrant with HVC, MRC, Arachnyte, Murderous Size, Synaptic Lure (the new Kraken spell) DS for 4d6 (discard 2) rerollable charge. BEHEMOTH Flyrant with SOT, Adrenal, HVC, for the classic SuperFlyrant and 3d6 (discard 1) rr 8" charge.
2: Remodelling the list more lets you try to get a 3rd Batt, so you have 18cp to spend pregame. Getting rid of the Flyrant for another Neurothrope gives you an extra 130pts, which you can use to fill out for 2 more Ripper squads and a Pod for the Exocrene (if you're worried about it getting shot off the board). You'd have to shuffle some stuff around, but you could get a slot filling Tyranid Prime to round off. If you ditch the pod, you do very little shuffling. Now your list doesnt NEED more cp, but benefits heavily from having more cp since you can now do the GS Sling combo twice (full combo being 6cp each time), the Hive Guard twice(2cp each), and also fuel the Exocrene for 1 turn (2cp that turn, 1cp thereafter).
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Post by dc0315 on May 18, 2020 18:41:45 GMT
Continuing my list development as I’m really not sure that malanthropes are worth their points. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [57 PL, 830pts, 8CP] ++ + Configuration + Battle-forged CP [3CP] Detachment CP [5CP] Hive Fleet: Kraken + HQ + Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Power: Synaptic Lure The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: The Horror + Troops + Genestealers [16 PL, 216pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 18x Scything Talons . 18x Genestealer: 18x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 216pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 18x Scything Talons . 18x Genestealer: 18x Rending Claws Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts] . 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [35 PL, 591pts, 5CP] ++ + Configuration + Detachment CP [5CP] Hive Fleet: Kraken + HQ + Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 218pts]: Pathogenesis, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Instinctive Killer, Wings Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Catalyst + Troops + Hormagaunts [9 PL, 125pts] . 25x Hormagaunt: 25x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [9 PL, 125pts] . 25x Hormagaunt: 25x Scything Talons Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts] . 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth ++ Patrol Detachment (Tyranids) [34 PL, 579pts, -1CP] ++ + Configuration + Hive Fleet: Kronos + Stratagems + Progeny of the Hive [-1CP] + HQ + Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Symbiostorm + Troops + Termagants [6 PL, 76pts] . 19x Termagant (Fleshborer): 19x Fleshborer + Elites + Hive Guard [13 PL, 258pts] . Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance . 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support + Exocrine [11 PL, 155pts] ++ Total: [126 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) Malanthrope is VERY worth it, unless you go against flamers. Malanthrope+Maleceptor for the strat will make your enemy swear unless he uses a repulsors S10 weapon. With mal+mal you are looking at lasguns strength weaponry(S3) on stealers/warriors hitting at -1, wounding on 6s and bolter weaponry hutting at -1 and wounding on 5s. Vs exocrine at T8 the basilisk hits on 5s wounds on 4s and give the exo 5++. The key thing about malanthrope is to use it on the things that need it, which is your whole army and unfortunately i find stealers dont go well with exo and huve guard as they cant stay next to each other. If using stealers take a flyrant to open wraps, warriors, gargoyles but mainly, more stealers and just congoline to the mal and Metabollic overdrive the mal if need be. If using exocrines and hive guard build the list to stick together at the back and deny objectives till its safe enough for your gaunts to go out and take them. Nids are not good at doing both gunline shooting and being offensive. Either go all offensive or go all defensive.
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Post by bindingenergy on May 19, 2020 4:16:51 GMT
I have had great success with my nids so far 10/10, but I do not run any genestealers, termigaunts, hormogaunts or Hive Tyrants. I use two full squads of warriors with enhanced resistances, with cover that is a 3+ save ignoring AP -1 and -2. I typically drop a sporecyst or two in the middle of the table and leave a full squad of Bivores out of line of sight. The sporecyst tend to be a bullet magnet since the spore mines create a real movement obstacle, this allows me to get some of my melee units up the board. The Haruspex is pretty damn solid as is the Toxicrene.
The problem I see in you list is the Swarm Lord is darn expensive and you are using him to sling shot up glass cannon units. A turn 1 change with 18 genestealer can easily wipe a 5 man intercessor squad, but that just means that you spent 216 pt of genestealers with the aid of a 250 Swarm Lord to kill 85 pts worth of marines. Most of your list, have negligible saves, so your opponent chews through them fairly quickly, even with catalyst.
A nice tactic I use to aid with my base above is to field 2 Mawlocs on the table turn 1. If I go first I just use their burrow ability so I can use Terror from the Deep turn 2, but If I go second, they can absorb some damage turn 1 before I burrow them.
I tend to run a combo of Kronos for my shooty, mainly for the new psychic power, a full squad of warriors 6 DS + 3 VC near a Tyranid Prime means that you are hitting on 3's and 5+ are extra hits, plus they are infantry so you can double up with single minded annihilation. (36 DS shots + 6d3 VC shots === Brutality)
My second battalion (I always run a dual battalion with a fortification network) is always a custom Hive Fleet base on the flavor I want to play with, although my favorite is Senses of the Outer Dark and Prey Sight. I absolutely love tossing a Hive Crone down field turn 1 to tie up their big guns, it seldom does much damage, but is effective at tying up units with big guns and no fly keyword.
The Malanthrope is worth it to shield shooty units, because he can't be targeted and because he alone can shield monsters. I personally prefer the venomthropes, because I can string them out and shield multiple units, if only for a turn or two.
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Post by asvic on May 19, 2020 7:33:24 GMT
I have had great success with my nids so far 10/10, but I do not run any genestealers, termigaunts, hormogaunts or Hive Tyrants. I use two full squads of warriors with enhanced resistances, with cover that is a 3+ save ignoring AP -1 and -2. I typically drop a sporecyst or two in the middle of the table and leave a full squad of Bivores out of line of sight. The sporecyst tend to be a bullet magnet since the spore mines create a real movement obstacle, this allows me to get some of my melee units up the board. The Haruspex is pretty damn solid as is the Toxicrene. The problem I see in you list is the Swarm Lord is darn expensive and you are using him to sling shot up glass cannon units. A turn 1 change with 18 genestealer can easily wipe a 5 man intercessor squad, but that just means that you spent 216 pt of genestealers with the aid of a 250 Swarm Lord to kill 85 pts worth of marines. Most of your list, have negligible saves, so your opponent chews through them fairly quickly, even with catalyst. A nice tactic I use to aid with my base above is to field 2 Mawlocs on the table turn 1. If I go first I just use their burrow ability so I can use Terror from the Deep turn 2, but If I go second, they can absorb some damage turn 1 before I burrow them. I tend to run a combo of Kronos for my shooty, mainly for the new psychic power, a full squad of warriors 6 DS + 3 VC near a Tyranid Prime means that you are hitting on 3's and 5+ are extra hits, plus they are infantry so you can double up with single minded annihilation. (36 DS shots + 6d3 VC shots === Brutality) My second battalion (I always run a dual battalion with a fortification network) is always a custom Hive Fleet base on the flavor I want to play with, although my favorite is Senses of the Outer Dark and Prey Sight. I absolutely love tossing a Hive Crone down field turn 1 to tie up their big guns, it seldom does much damage, but is effective at tying up units with big guns and no fly keyword. The Malanthrope is worth it to shield shooty units, because he can't be targeted and because he alone can shield monsters. I personally prefer the venomthropes, because I can string them out and shield multiple units, if only for a turn or two. Is this... Is this bait? Sporocysts just eat your CP because of detachment requirements. And they are too squishy and provide easy points for your opponent turn one. The point of genestealers is not to kill some unit, it's to use their superior mobility to disrupt enemy lines starting from turn one, they are a huge threat which can also wrap a unit to prevent shooting at them or tag multiple shooty units. That's well worth the points. Someone shoots the mawlocs when there are better targets? Either you just provided some possible kill points for your opponent and all your important stuff was already safe or your important stuff is targeted anyway.
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Post by kazetanade on May 19, 2020 9:10:26 GMT
People play in different meta. If it works for him, it works for him, and we should be happy he can play a Haruspex and get value out of it because it's a pretty dope model.
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Post by bindingenergy on May 19, 2020 10:55:56 GMT
Yeah, sporocyst are squishy and usually die turn one, but the same could be said about any other tyranid unit, and yeah it does take away from my available CP, but I am ok with that.
I love to trying out the big bugs (granted with mixed success), my point was to think about a different was to play. I keep my core battalion that has my serious unit and everything else is so I can have fun with units most people don't use, cause they well ... suck!
Jormungandr (The Enemy Below) - Mawloc/Trygon with two full Pyrovores squads. Three Toxicrenes list Two Haruspex's with a Malecptor (Encephlic Diffusion -Prey Sight and Sense of the Outer Dark) -Charged a Tau castle taking only 1 wound and eating all of the Overwatch (Fun Fun Fun).
Just plain fun man, not saying those things were highly effective, but it was darn fun.
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Post by zimko on May 20, 2020 14:06:32 GMT
3 Toxicrenes and 2 haruspex's? Man I almost wish I didn't live in a competitive meta.
I just hope you realize that this 'fun' stuff you're talking about only works in a meta of other 'fun' players. Don't try to say Swarmlord and Genestealers don't make up their points and then tell us you use Sporecysts, Hive Crone and Mawlocs. Lol.
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Post by iniquity on May 23, 2020 23:43:27 GMT
Currently really demoralised, just been getting demolished by spaces wolves (wulfen) and raven guard. It doesnt really feel like i have many options other than build a list tailored against them, its just made the game really enjoyable for me being a very average player. *salt*
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Post by kazetanade on May 25, 2020 6:27:38 GMT
Wolves seem to have gotten a big boost with latest book - I'm not 100% sure about what they got but it's a lot of melee orientated stuff. Can't really offer much advise on that, sorry. Best I could guess is keep the sides walled off so Wulfen can't outflank into a good place and forced to pick off chaff; don't bother engaging them since they're impossibly hard to kill, and will hit back in combat when they die naturally. The only wolf player I know is pretty bad and I beat him with semi-troll lists like 6Dakkafex and 3 AcidFex.
RG is a natural counter - you're expected to lose this matchup extremely hard if its a meta RG list, there is no Nids list in existence that can take it on and win convincingly or consistently (70% of the time going 2nd means a concede, and 50% of the time going first gives you 0 advantage, its very dependant on the terrain available and the bonus obj scoring method). Don't feel bad about it, just know that hard counters exist and RG is the absolute worst of them all.
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Post by iniquity on Jun 2, 2020 23:47:51 GMT
Wolves seem to have gotten a big boost with latest book - I'm not 100% sure about what they got but it's a lot of melee orientated stuff. Can't really offer much advise on that, sorry. Best I could guess is keep the sides walled off so Wulfen can't outflank into a good place and forced to pick off chaff; don't bother engaging them since they're impossibly hard to kill, and will hit back in combat when they die naturally. The only wolf player I know is pretty bad and I beat him with semi-troll lists like 6Dakkafex and 3 AcidFex. RG is a natural counter - you're expected to lose this matchup extremely hard if its a meta RG list, there is no Nids list in existence that can take it on and win convincingly or consistently (70% of the time going 2nd means a concede, and 50% of the time going first gives you 0 advantage, its very dependant on the terrain available and the bonus obj scoring method). Don't feel bad about it, just know that hard counters exist and RG is the absolute worst of them all. Cheers for the reply, I thought I replied to this ages ago but I guess something went wrong. Wulfen with a 3++ that fight on death is just brutal, they absorb so much shooting and the stuff that is really good at killing them - genestealers dies after they fight. I think atm I average 1 enjoyable game of 40k In 5. Currently getting absolutely stomped by a friend playing 3x5 squads of custodies bikes with a basilisk tank ace in the arti detachment. Basilisk picks up the hive guard 1st turn. Bikes just murder everything else. It’s like my mate can’t actually make a bad decision. Shooting that has indirect fire and can shoot 240” is a genuinely unenjoyable experience. Edit: by enjoyable I mean either out playing someone or even better getting stomped by someone who made superior choices and tatical decisions and taught me something about 40k. 4/5 games I look at the enemy army and just think “I don’t have the tools to deal with this” or “oh, this army does what I want to do but better” I find it really hard to not be a salty arse hole when I ask my opponent at the end of the game “what do you think I could do differently?” And they say “not much really” it’s just like... why are we even throwing dice? Really frustrating.
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Post by garg on Jun 3, 2020 7:35:19 GMT
You could consider adding a malanthrope as the -1 will mean he goes from killing 2-4 HG to 1-3, if you can then manage to bracket it in your turn or try to tie them up. If you can screen then well, positioning near the wall, outside 1", so he can't get his bikes in, maybe screen with lash whip/bs warriors so he can't consolidate. The hurricane bolters aren't all that scary for the HG. The bikes are pretty susceptible to MW, sure they have an innate fnp in the psy phase but they are so expensive that if he loses a few it takes away some of his offensive punch
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Post by iniquity on Jun 3, 2020 7:53:37 GMT
You could consider adding a malanthrope as the -1 will mean he goes from killing 2-4 HG to 1-3, if you can then manage to bracket it in your turn or try to tie them up. If you can screen then well, positioning near the wall, outside 1", so he can't get his bikes in, maybe screen with lash whip/bs warriors so he can't consolidate. The hurricane bolters aren't all that scary for the HG. The bikes are pretty susceptible to MW, sure they have an innate fnp in the psy phase but they are so expensive that if he loses a few it takes away some of his offensive punch Thanks for the advice, this is all stuff I’ve tried, from my experience... A -1 to hit aura is not stopping a double firing basilisk that hits on 2s (3s) with full rerolls that’s flat 3 damage ap -3 ignoring cover from picking up what ever he wants. What screen is screening from 70 shots hitting on 2s? Yes fine I can keep him away for 1 turn but really he can do what ever he wants and realistically any character in smite range is dying in combat. Good luck getting to a basilisk hiding in a ruin at the back of the board screened by guard with 3 squads of bikes that can swooping dive anything that comes close. The joke is we started playing warhammer together and the last game we played we actually swapped armies and I performed better with his army than he did.
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Post by brianb9999 on Jun 3, 2020 11:00:22 GMT
You could consider adding a malanthrope as the -1 will mean he goes from killing 2-4 HG to 1-3, if you can then manage to bracket it in your turn or try to tie them up. If you can screen then well, positioning near the wall, outside 1", so he can't get his bikes in, maybe screen with lash whip/bs warriors so he can't consolidate. The hurricane bolters aren't all that scary for the HG. The bikes are pretty susceptible to MW, sure they have an innate fnp in the psy phase but they are so expensive that if he loses a few it takes away some of his offensive punch Thanks for the advice, this is all stuff I’ve tried, from my experience... A -1 to hit aura is not stopping a double firing basilisk that hits on 2s (3s) with full rerolls that’s flat 3 damage ap -3 ignoring cover from picking up what ever he wants. What screen is screening from 70 shots hitting on 2s? Yes fine I can keep him away for 1 turn but really he can do what ever he wants and realistically any character in smite range is dying in combat. Good luck getting to a basilisk hiding in a ruin at the back of the board screened by guard with 3 squads of bikes that can swooping dive anything that comes close. The joke is we started playing warhammer together and the last game we played we actually swapped armies and I performed better with his army than he did. Just wondering how a basilisk is hitting on 2’s? Yes, the flat 3, full rerolls, firing twice is downright nasty vs nids, but basilisks hit on 4’s, 5’s if at -1. The only way to get them to a 3+ I can think of is Cadian or Vostroyan stratagem. No way of getting to 2+ I know of.
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