ITC 2020 and Sappers

[aruair]

Here’s the tactics article:

www.hostilegalaxy.com/2020/03/31/tyranid-tactics-8th-edition-itc-2020-champions-secondary-mission-sappers/

My usual list involves a swarm with a few supporting monsters. Because I have a lot of models, I usually pick two Maneuver Secondaries. The first is always Recon because that’s easy for me to pick up. Recently I decided to start using Sappers.

I like Sappers because it gives an ability to deny objectives to two of your units. This not only can score you secondary points but can help with the point differential in primary points as well by helping you score more objectives than your opponent and possibly denying them their only objective. If it also helps you score the mission bonus point then you’re in really good shape!

I know it’s a risk. They can just kill the Sappers. But if they do that, you’ve already scored with them once (probably) and they hopefully were used to pull ahead in primary points and/or deny primary and secondary points to your opponent!

Personally, I’ll be using my Hormagaunts and Mawloc as Sappers. The Hormagaunts can start scoring turn 1 and can pull firepower away from my Genestealers. When my Mawloc drops in, it will hopefully steal a home objective from my opponent and deny them the primary point for holding an objective. Also, it will take forever away from my other monsters and hopefully keep them alive longer. Even if I don’t get full points for Sappers, I’m hoping to do more damage overall by keeping other units alive longer and to also gain more points through primary objectives.

Would love to know what you think about this or if you’ve tried it.

[zimko]

If you decide to mix in GSC, a unit of brood brothers could also make for good sappers. They can deep strike outside 3" to snipe an objective, or sit on an objective for a couple turns to max secondaries, then use their redeploy stratagem to snipe an objective on the following turn (when losing them won't matter). Being deep strikers, you can also guarantee they won't die until turn 2, allowing you to arrive and immediately gain 2 points on turn 2 assuming you have board control of 2 objectives outside your deployment zone. I believe Nick Nanavati is currently using GSC in this way, but since the pandemic happened, we haven't been able to see it in action much. And being GSC, you can use the blips to deny armies like Ravenguard from moving into your deployment zone, then use a stratagem to put them in deep strike.

[aruair]

Apr 2, 2020 15:47:28 GMT zimko said:

If you decide to mix in GSC, a unit of brood brothers could also make for good sappers. They can deep strike outside 3" to snipe an objective, or sit on an objective for a couple turns to max secondaries, then use their redeploy stratagem to snipe an objective on the following turn (when losing them won't matter). Being deep strikers, you can also guarantee they won't die until turn 2, allowing you to arrive and immediately gain 2 points on turn 2 assuming you have board control of 2 objectives outside your deployment zone. I believe Nick Nanavati is currently using GSC in this way, but since the pandemic happened, we haven't been able to see it in action much. And being GSC, you can use the blips to deny armies like Ravenguard from moving into your deployment zone, then use a stratagem to put them in deep strike.

I like that! If I didn’t play pure Hive Fleets then I would absolutely use Brood Brothers this way. Thanks for sharing!

[phayze]

my issue with Sappers and Engineers is that all the opponent has to do is to tag a model in combat and the effect is lost pretty much for the game. you can choose not to pile in, but you can't choose NOT to fight with a model in range. This means that each engineers or sappers unit gets 1 good turn to use their scoring ability before being removed as an option or from the table.

I would much rather choose an objective that I can reliably score full points on that trying to deal with only scoring 2 points through these objectives.

You COULD put it on something beefier and tanky to dissuade your opponent from contacting them in melee, like a full brood of warriors, but then you've spent over 200 points for that death ball to just sit there not killing anything. Not fun.

[No One]

phayze said:

my issue with Sappers and Engineers is that all the opponent has to do is to tag a model in combat and the effect is lost pretty much for the game. you can choose not to pile in, but you can't choose NOT to fight with a model in range. This means that each engineers or sappers unit gets 1 good turn to use their scoring ability before being removed as an option or from the table.

I would much rather choose an objective that I can reliably score full points on that trying to deal with only scoring 2 points through these objectives.

You COULD put it on something beefier and tanky to dissuade your opponent from contacting them in melee, like a full brood of warriors, but then you've spent over 200 points for that death ball to just sit there not killing anything. Not fun.

Score 2 with one unit, then score 2 with the other unit. Less effective with engineers, but with sappers you can often do this quite effectively with DS.

[phayze]

What are you using that can deepstrike onto an objective and stay untouched for 2 turns?

[No One]

Rippers/BB depending on map/opponent. Or just take sappers with BB and not care if they're untouched as long as there are 2 objectives outside of deployment zones.

[kazetanade]

You only need 1 turn per Sapper unit, voila free 4 points. If they're GSC, that's free 6 if you start 2nd since you will always hold more.

Sappers is like our better engineer. Move fast, be annoying, score hard. Engineers need to sit in a place forever.

[No One]

The downside to sappers over engineers is it's harder to score on the 3 objective missions (and less so for the 5 with 2 in your DZ): if you've got good terrain for hiding an engineer and the don't have ignore LoS...

[kazetanade]

Apr 3, 2020 7:13:31 GMT No One said:

 if you've got good terrain for hiding an engineer and the don't have ignore LoS...

With how good IG artillery, SM TFCs, SMS, and deepstriking Ork in your face? and our trash tier durability engineers? yeaa, suuuure.....

[aruair]

Apr 3, 2020 19:45:39 GMT kazetanade said:

Apr 3, 2020 7:13:31 GMT No One said:

 if you've got good terrain for hiding an engineer and the don't have ignore LoS...

With how good IG artillery, SM TFCs, SMS, and deepstriking Ork in your face? and our trash tier durability engineers? yeaa, suuuure.....

True but you don’t have to pick Sappers every game. There are still some opponents and lists that don’t have artillery and deep striking Orks to the face. You’re right though, if you’re up against those units it may be best to pick something else.

[kazetanade]

Yes, so having a few units of Rippers around is always not a bad idea, you can nominate 2 of them to be Engineers. One just has to start on the board so you can start scoring from T2, assuming the enemy army allows you do this safely. It's just that for a majority of our lists the scoring has to be baked into the list build strategy. I'd rather go Sappers every game knowing I have the ability to score it regardless enemy list and bake it into my strategy, and choose Engineer to replace Recon assuming Recon is harder to score. Engi/Sapper I feel arent the replacement choices, since the unit selection for the two roles are different.

[brianb9999]

Apr 5, 2020 8:16:05 GMT kazetanade said:

Yes, so having a few units of Rippers around is always not a bad idea, you can nominate 2 of them to be Engineers. One just has to start on the board so you can start scoring from T2, assuming the enemy army allows you do this safely. It's just that for a majority of our lists the scoring has to be baked into the list build strategy. I'd rather go Sappers every game knowing I have the ability to score it regardless enemy list and bake it into my strategy, and choose Engineer to replace Recon assuming Recon is harder to score. Engi/Sapper I feel arent the replacement choices, since the unit selection for the two roles are different.

This is what I've been thinking as well. All depends on list design, but you can have a permanent engineer unit or sapper unit in your list, then pick either the opposite or recon for a second maneuver. I'm thinking this is one of the better ways to play Tyranids going forward into the new ITC rules.