Help me choose adaptive physiologies and relics pls

[polkadragon]

Hey everyone,

I’m going to be playing a 1750 ITC game (Crucible of Champions) with my Nids/GSC vs a Deathwatch force.

I’ll have the option of choosing my adaptive physiologies and Relics before starting the game, so if anyone has suggestions on what to choose vs this opponent, I’d appreciate it.

The Deathwatch list has a bunch of Veterans, almost all with Storm Shields, 2 Venerable Dreads and a Corvus Blackstar. He’s also bringing a Calidus and Culexus assassin.

My list below.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [62 PL, 1,075pts, -1CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr

+ Stratagems +

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Malanthropes [5 PL, 120pts]: Warlord
. Malanthrope

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 75pts]: Deathspitter, Scything Talons

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Tyranid Warriors [13 PL, 228pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Hive Guard [13 PL, 258pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [11 PL, 155pts]

Trygon Prime [10 PL, 173pts]: 3x Massive Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Biostatic Rattle

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [29 PL, 393pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Power: Lurking Maws, Power: Smite

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 72pts]: Boneswords, Spinefists

+ Troops +

Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 126pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons

++ Patrol Detachment (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [14 PL, 282pts, -1CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Cult Creed: The Bladed Cog

+ Stratagems +

Grandsire's Gifts [-1CP]: 1 Extra Sacred Relic

+ HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 77pts]
. 6x Neophyte Hybrid
. Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Kelermorph [3 PL, 75pts]

Sanctus [3 PL, 60pts]: Silencer Sniper Rifle

++ Total: [105 PL, 1,750pts, -2CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

[kurtangle2]

I don't see the reason for a Bladed Cog Patrol with Alphus and one unit of 10 neophytes. It's just plain worthless in that situation

[No One]

Probably +2 cover on the warriors and hive guard to protect against the corvus and stuff like AP-3 frag cannons, as well as most of the special ammo.

Relics, umm...barbed on the broodlord?? Feels super lackluster for the 1 turn of maw, but you also want maw to go off (aside, I'm not sold on maw doing enough for the 1 turn you you can cast it to warrant).

Also as above, the GSC feels lacking: going BC for not much over getting access to FAE?

[irondreddknight]

In my experience veterans take storm shields and storm bolters and spam the 2+ to wound ammunition.

Now this poses a problem for enhanced resistance as the shots will be ap0. Makes a dynamic camouflage an excellent choice especially in a jormangandr detachment. Warriors love this, hive guard would be the exception to the rule if there's a corvus in play and would probably benefit more from ER than DC.

In the case of monsters, they also suffer against the 2+ to wound ammunition. Fortunately jormangandr helps here again, the addition of cover grants your monsters a 2+ save. Which can force them to change tactic and use the ap rounds, but S4 against T8 wounds on 6's. 5's with the stratagem. But that makes a case for dermic symbiosis, the exo would be a good choice. I strongly recommend this as its one of you're biggest turn 1 threats and it will targeted first. That said, the exo's move + Stationary strat can keep it safe out of LOS for turn 1.

Relic wise, balethorn cannon would be interesting to negate the storm shield saves. But you'd need a kronos tyrant which is big mix up of your list.

Resonance barb is always a good relic, smites on 4+ anybody? Helps make sure you pull off lurking maws spell.

[No One]

irondreddknight said:

Warriors love this, hive guard would be the exception to the rule if there's a corvus in play and would probably benefit more from ER than DC.

Corvus is all 0, -1 or -3: +2 cover is better. Also for dropping off -3 frag cannons within 12".

Relic wise, balethorn cannon would be interesting to negate the storm shield saves. But you'd need a kronos tyrant which is big mix up of your list.

It turns a 3+ to a 4+. Or they just take it on a 3+ termi (admittedly risky with D2). Meh.

[polkadragon]

Mar 18, 2020 22:01:12 GMT kurtangle2 said:

I don't see the reason for a Bladed Cog Patrol with Alphus and one unit of 10 neophytes. It's just plain worthless in that situation

To clarify, the intent of the BC patrol is to add some limited character-killing ability with Sanctus, Alphus and Kelermorph (one of them takes a Relic as well. Since I need to take a mandatory Troop choice as well, I went with Bladed Cog to get the Mining Lasers to be (semi) reliable.

[polkadragon]

Mar 19, 2020 10:29:39 GMT irondreddknight said:

In my experience veterans take storm shields and storm bolters and spam the 2+ to wound ammunition.

Now this poses a problem for enhanced resistance as the shots will be ap0. Makes a dynamic camouflage an excellent choice especially in a jormangandr detachment. Warriors love this, hive guard would be the exception to the rule if there's a corvus in play and would probably benefit more from ER than DC.

In the case of monsters, they also suffer against the 2+ to wound ammunition. Fortunately jormangandr helps here again, the addition of cover grants your monsters a 2+ save. Which can force them to change tactic and use the ap rounds, but S4 against T8 wounds on 6's. 5's with the stratagem. But that makes a case for dermic symbiosis, the exo would be a good choice. I strongly recommend this as its one of you're biggest turn 1 threats and it will targeted first. That said, the exo's move + Stationary strat can keep it safe out of LOS for turn 1.

Indeed, it’s almost all Storm Bolters and Storm Shields and only a few Frag cannons.

To give you an idea, this is what I would -currently- give:

* Warriors: Dynamic Camouflage
* Exocrine: Dermic Symbiosis
* Trygon Prime: Arachnyte Gland
* Kelermorph: Opressors Bane

The Gland on the Trygon should give him a semi-reliable charge and he can bring the CC Warriors with him and also give them at least a 3D6 charge with Strategems.
As for the GSC Relic: I figure that the Sniper relic is not going to do that much due to invul saves and no Psykers, so more shots with the Kelermorph seems an idea.

But as always, I can be convinced otherwise by good ideas

[No One]

polkadragon said:

As for the GSC Relic: I figure that the Sniper relic is not going to do that much due to invul saves and no Psykers, so more shots with the Kelermorph seems an idea.

Alternatively, save the CP: it depends what you're doing with it. But the extra shots are eh: 1.8 extra at S4. If you're planning on lying in wait for Character assassination, yes because extra AP and rerolls on Characters. But since I'm not sure if DW have Characters important enough to warrant that...

The Gland on the Trygon should give him a semi-reliable charge and he can bring the CC Warriors with him and also give them at least a 3D6 charge with Strategems.

...Why do your cc warriors that you're potentially bringing by trygon not have AG? 9" charge with only 3d6 no rerolls is a bit eh. AG relic on the trygon is a reasonable idea though, but expecting him to get in reliably enough to then bring the warriors in, losing a CP and cover in the process...hmmm.

* Exocrine: Dermic Symbiosis

Not sold on this either: 2+->5+ with AP-3. So you only get any benefit from shoot at top bracket. Which I don't think is worth an adapt over trying to protect HG from corvus'd/DS vets. Or possibly the other warrior squad, but eh.

[polkadragon]

The list also has 2 assassins, one of which could be a nice target for the Kelermorph. But saving the CP is indeed an option.

The CC Warriors do have AG btw.

[No One]

Ah yeah, I see it now: yeah, AG relic seems the best then.

[timcz]

Mar 19, 2020 17:31:55 GMT polkadragon said:

Mar 18, 2020 22:01:12 GMT kurtangle2 said:

I don't see the reason for a Bladed Cog Patrol with Alphus and one unit of 10 neophytes. It's just plain worthless in that situation

To clarify, the intent of the BC patrol is to add some limited character-killing ability with Sanctus, Alphus and Kelermorph (one of them takes a Relic as well. Since I need to take a mandatory Troop choice as well, I went with Bladed Cog to get the Mining Lasers to be (semi) reliable.

Instead of a patrol could you go for a vanguard, ditch the troop choice and add a Nexos for a few extra CP during the game?

[polkadragon]

Mar 20, 2020 20:53:08 GMT timcz said:

Mar 19, 2020 17:31:55 GMT polkadragon said:

To clarify, the intent of the BC patrol is to add some limited character-killing ability with Sanctus, Alphus and Kelermorph (one of them takes a Relic as well. Since I need to take a mandatory Troop choice as well, I went with Bladed Cog to get the Mining Lasers to be (semi) reliable.

Instead of a patrol could you go for a vanguard, ditch the troop choice and add a Nexos for a few extra CP during the game?

In the first iteration of my list, this was the case, but a lone Nexos only gets a CP on a 6. The Neophytes at least give me 2 Mining Lasers and can be ablative wounds for the Kelermorph and/or Alphus.