Leviathan + Behemoth Tyranid army

[naviedzony]

I'll try today the following list:

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BEHEMOTH Battalion +5 CP

Hive Tyrant with Wings
 - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
 - Monstrous Scything Talons
 - 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms

Swarmlord

20x Genestealers

3x Ripper Swarms

3x Ripper Swarms

JORMUNGANDR Battalion +5 CP

Broodlord

Neurothrope

20x Genestealers
 - Extended Carapace

20x Genestealers

- Extended Carapace

3x Ripper Swarms

30x Termagaunts
 - 30x Devourer

3x Venomthropes

Lictor

3x Raveners
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So what is the idea behind this? I'm preparing for a Team Championships of Poland. We play ETC rules here, so I'm the "board control" member of my team with my Tyranid army. I recently tried other Hive fleets than Kraken and Kronos, just to try non-meta things and I actually realized, that I have no problem with making this first turn charge with my Genestealers, regardless of them being Kraken or not. Swarmlord sling is powerful enough. An then I tried board controling with 2+ armour save Warriors, but since everybody is playing anti-marines and anti-guard lists here, there is plenty of anti-tank shooting out there. Genestealers don't care about anti-tank shooting. So I decided to try Panzer-stealers as midfield holders and dedicate a small Raveners unit as a taxi for Termagaunts with devourers. These guys can get leviathan power from across the table as it has no range limit and pack potentialy 180 shots re-rolling all rolls to hit and 1's to wound. Lictor is for non-overwatch charging, Riiper swarms as always for objective holding. Venomthropes - I'm not sure about them, but I'll try to stick them in some ruins out of LOS and spread the -1 to hit goodness on already tanky genestealers.
Now, with Behemoth... It is actually better now to sling Behemoth stealers, as with the new spell, they hurt even more and have better chance to rend and actually hurt some super-heavy very badly. Alternatively, depedning on the situation, I'll just use them as another mid-field threat and I'll sling a Behemoth Flyrant with Scythes of Tyran and the same Behemoth power active. Having 20"+20" move and re-rollable charge at +1 is a good chance of actually getting it where it belongs (in combat. Then, when his job is done, it turns into a distraction carnifex letting me to use my genestealers in second turn relatively unmolested and maybe slinging Swarmlord himself and most importantly - keeping enemy occupied in his own deployment, dealing with enough threat saturation, thet he let me cash on board control for a couple of first turns.

Yeah, that's the plan. I'll let you know how it went today.

[bennyelias]

I like this list a lot. I picked up a nid army recently and have been deep diving over the last few weeks, and after trying the standard Kraken/Kronos stuff I saw the Jorm Devilgaunt combo. The list I wrote was planning to get them onto the board via a Trygon Prime (with relic gland and monstrous size) but the Ravener option is much cheaper and easier to setup around them. The limitless range on the Jorm spell makes this combo much safer too, can stay out of deny range.

Where do you put your physiologies? Cover one on Stealers for a 2+ save is obviously great, size on the Flyrant is also legit. Are you paying the CP to take the Barb on top of the Scythes?

Keen to hear how this plays!

[naviedzony]

Mar 5, 2020 0:33:06 GMT bennyelias said:

Keen to hear how this plays!

Thank you for the kind words.

This list plays kind of ok, but in super-competetive meta you will not go far with it, I'm afraid. I already changed it a lot, as Possessed/Obliterators bomb is a thing in my place, as well as all kind of Astra Militarum castles and such. Without first turn shooting I was unable to tear through the several layers of screen. For the first two turns this list is magnificent, keeping middle ground and earning points for defending objectives, but then it starts to crumble really fast. The inflation of shooting is a serious concern for me right now.

[murderfiesta]

I've actually been considering using the ignore -1/-2 AP physiology on Jorm Genestealers. It's worse against Ap0, the same against Ap-1, better against Ap-2, and the same against Ap-3+ so it really depends on what you're facing, but if you're facing a lot of Intercessors running anything but Auto Bolt Rifles then you'll get a lot of value. Also applies to Stormcannon Leviathans if you can stay out of shooting range on turn 1. Creates weird incentives for the opponent where they want to be shooting Ap0 or Ap-3 at the Genestealers, but they don't even get the full value from actually leveraging an Ap-3 weapon against the 'stealers. Also, it protects against lists that may have access to "Ignore Cover" effects, since those will be Ap-2 against the cover physiology but only Ap-1 against the ignore AP physiology, and at that point the opponent still needs to hit you with Ap-3 weapons if they want to reduce your save further.

[irondreddknight]

Mar 12, 2020 0:58:09 GMT murderfiesta said:

I've actually been considering using the ignore -1/-2 AP physiology on Jorm Genestealers. It's worse against Ap0, the same against Ap-1, better against Ap-2, and the same against Ap-3+ so it really depends on what you're facing, but if you're facing a lot of Intercessors running anything but Auto Bolt Rifles then you'll get a lot of value. Also applies to Stormcannon Leviathans if you can stay out of shooting range on turn 1. Creates weird incentives for the opponent where they want to be shooting Ap0 or Ap-3 at the Genestealers, but they don't even get the full value from actually leveraging an Ap-3 weapon against the 'stealers. Also, it protects against lists that may have access to "Ignore Cover" effects, since those will be Ap-2 against the cover physiology but only Ap-1 against the ignore AP physiology, and at that point the opponent still needs to hit you with Ap-3 weapons if they want to reduce your save further.

I was just thinking this as i was reading the thread. It'd make for some very difficult to shift stealers. My only issues would be the slow speed, the lack of guns to compensate and also the points cost. Its a high price for board control. But its a strong way to survive first turn shooting.

[murderfiesta]

In less competitive games before Psychic Awakening I found them to be fun because opponents think they're a huge threat and are terrified of the prospect of the genestealers actually reaching them, ignoring the fact that it'll be probably turn 3 by the time that happens. Granted, it takes 183 bolt rifle shots to take down a squad of 20 panzer stealers (278 if they have Catalyst as well) so against Space Marines they may actually do quite a lot of work. Two squads for 560 points may simply be such a massive dump truck of pain that the enemy can't ignore that it acts as an effective screen for the rest of your forces. And if they want to kill the entire unit in melee, on average they'll need 122 attacks if they're hitting on 3s wounding on 4s and don't have AP -3. Those numbers get pretty absurd.