First Time Player Looking For Recommendations

[kickingraccoon]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the whole Warhammer scene and have decided to have tyranids as my first army. So far my list consists of...

Hive Fleet Kraken. (Painted as Jormugandr)

*HQ*

Broodlord

Swarmlord or Hive Tyrant (can't decide)

*Troops*

Hormagaunts x20
Hormagaunts x10 (just purchased)
Genestealers x8. Scything Talons.

*Heavy*

Trygon Prime toxinspike,adrenal glands

All in all it is a pretty simple 500-600 point list. I'm looking to expand into a horde and swarm style of play and was hoping to get recommendations on what I should add, as well as decide between the tyrant and swarmlord. I was to replace the genestealers and broodlord since I'm not the biggest fan of genestealers. I would like to play 2k plus games.

[irondreddknight]

Hi welcome to the hive.

You want to max out the genestealers to get full value, swarmlord works really well with them because of the hive commander ability. Allows them to move twice in the same turn. Hes also a monster in combat.

That said, you cant go wrong with a flyrant.

Youre lacking range, so I'd recommend a picking up some of our best shooting units. For example, hive guard, exocrine, warriors combined with a prime and enhanced resistance.

[kickingraccoon]

Thank you for the response! I will be sure to add more shooting into my army.

As for the genestealers, I used the tactic of subterranean assault on my Trygon Prime to relatively good effect. So would grabbing another start collecting box for another T Prime be a good choice, or should I strictly focus on using the points a Prime would cost on some Warriors, Guards and Stealers?

I looked into an Exocrine and I'm assuming you mean to take the bio plasmic cannon version? I'm sorry if my questions are really basic, I just started with 40k.

[No One]

I'm surprised you're getting any value out of a 9" charge with no support, let alone with 8 man squad of stealers (unless you're dropping with the horms). Dropping the trygon, upgrading the stealers to a 16 man and taking the Swarmlord is a pretty decent list. A bit one trick at smaller points (either you can use combat to your advantage and do well, or you can't), but effective.

Exocrine only comes with the cannon: the melee unit in the kit is a completely different unit.

[Bohxim]

I second that exocrine inclusion.

1 of the units for me that has ALWAYS paid for its points

[kickingraccoon]

Here is what I have from recommendations. 1,307 pts.

Patrol Detachment

*Hive Fleet* Kraken


*HQ*

Hive Tyrant-Wings and MST. (Built before I got replies, but can get another and swap him for a Swarmlord)

Tyranid Prime-Devourer,Lashwhip/Bonesword (Warlord)

*Troops*

Genestealers 16x-Scything Talons 8x,Rending Claws 8x

Genestealers 16x-Rending Claws 16x

Nid Warriors 3x-Devourers,Scything Talons

*Elites*

Hive Guard 3x-Impaler

Hive Guatd 3x-Impaler

*Fast Attack*

Gargoyles 10x

Gargoyles 10x

*Heavies*

Exocrine 1x

Exocrine 1x

As much as I love the hormagaunt and termagant models, I replaced the 20x and 10x hormies with genestealers 16x and didn't bother adding gants. I also dropped the Trygon Prime for 2 Exocrine. If there is a way I can bring my hormies back with the nid warriors and stealers and squeeze in some cranifex that would be great.


I probably got this completely wrong, but is what I came up with using Battlescribe. Thank you everyone for the previous and future feedback.

[garg]

I would advise you to look at eBay or similar for models as you can get them cheap. This is especially so for things like termagants and hormagants which you can get for ~1€ per model at least in Berlin.
Have fun with your Nids.

[kickingraccoon]

Mar 2, 2020 16:57:30 GMT garg said:

I would advise you to look at eBay or similar for models as you can get them cheap. This is especially so for things like termagants and hormagants which you can get for ~1€ per model at least in Berlin.
Have fun with your Nids.

Would you recommend changing out the genestealers and hormies for termagants to run this as a Jormugandr army?

[Bohxim]

Mar 2, 2020 16:38:15 GMT kickingraccoon said:

Here is what I have from recommendations. 1,307 pts.

Patrol Detachment

*Hive Fleet* Kraken


*HQ*

Hive Tyrant-Wings and MST. (Built before I got replies, but can get another and swap him for a Swarmlord)

Tyranid Prime-Devourer,Lashwhip/Bonesword (Warlord)

*Troops*

Genestealers 16x-Scything Talons 8x,Rending Claws 8x

Genestealers 16x-Rending Claws 16x

Nid Warriors 3x-Devourers,Scything Talons

*Elites*

Hive Guard 3x-Impaler

Hive Guatd 3x-Impaler

*Fast Attack*

Gargoyles 10x

Gargoyles 10x

*Heavies*

Exocrine 1x

Exocrine 1x

As much as I love the hormagaunt and termagant models, I replaced the 20x and 10x hormies with genestealers 16x and didn't bother adding gants. I also dropped the Trygon Prime for 2 Exocrine. If there is a way I can bring my hormies back with the nid warriors and stealers and squeeze in some cranifex that would be great.


I probably got this completely wrong, but is what I came up with using Battlescribe. Thank you everyone for the previous and future feedback.

Unless you have a specific reason to split your hive guards like that, I'd combine them into a unit of 6 to make full use the double shooting strategem too

[wound]

Thats a solid list and i agree with Bohxin on consolidating the hive gaurds, you will get more value out of them. Since you already have a Broodlord i see no reason to swap it for a prime especialy if you are on budget, i would say the same for a unit of 30 hormies. I would also sujest taking a look at adaptive physilogy rules as they can pimp up your excrines.

[kickingraccoon]

Thanks so much for the feedback and for letting me know about adaptive physiology! I'm crafting a list to work towards 2k but have expanded to 2.5k to play with my friend that has 2.5k admech. The plan is to go super melee heavy and lightning fast the the hormies that just zip around and tarpit under the cover of my exocrines. Here is a revision...

2,506 pts.

Brigade Detachment +12CP

*Hive Fleet* Kraken

*HQ*

Broodlord-The Horror

Flyrant whom I have named Captain Crunch for some reason-MST

Swarmlord-Warlord(can't decide on trait), Onslaught

*Troops*

2x Genestealers 16x-Acid Maw 4x,Scything Talons 8x

4x Hormagaunts 20x-Adrenal Glands

*Elites*

Hive Guard 6x-Impaler

2x Venomtrhopes 4x



*Fast Attack*

3x Raveners 3x- Scything Talons ( I can trade these back to Gargoyles if need be)

*Chonky Boys or Heavies*

Carnifex- Heavy Venom Cannon, Crushing Claw. (Probably better suited to be Cpt. Crunch)

Exocrine

Exocrine-Voracious Ammunition.

I currently own the Flyrant,Broodlord, 30 Hormies and 8 genestealers, so everything else is flexible. This is my end game, so I have a long while before I have the full list, but just so I can stay on the right track for purchases.

[garg]

I would say the genestealers or the hormagants/ termagants can be good. You should post a few games to see what you prefer. Genestealers can do some real damage in melee but they are squashy for their points. Definitely looking into things like trapping double fight and overrun.

[beetlejuice]

Swarmlord can only take Alien cunning as warlord trait, see p125 of codex. He is a bullet magnet already so make broodlord warlord instead. Instead of warlord trait give adaptive physiology to hive guard for ignore AP -1/-2

[murderfiesta]

A couple quick recommendations from my side:
1. Try to focus on a 2000 pt list first, as this is where most games are played. I understand you want to play 2.5k against your AdMech friend, but get used to playing at 2k first and then adapt from there to decide how to expand to 2.5k especially if you want to play a swarmy army, since they take FOREVER to move.

2. Ignore Tyranid Warriors. With Stratagems and Adaptive Physiology they can be really tanky (especially in Jormungandr detachments) but my consistent experience with them is they are both slow and low threat relative to other units in your army. The exception is if you deep strike melee-oriented Warriors with a Trygon or (in Jormungandr) with Raveners.

3. Unless you're running Jormungandr Raveners aren't worth it (as much as I'd like them to be). They can't take Adrenal Glands so they're unreliable when deepstriking unless you're using them as a dirt-cheap taxi for other units as Jormungandr, and they're quite fragile/vulnerable to multi-damage weapons. 3 Raveners with 2x scything talons will also on average deal only ~2 wounds to a unit of Intercessors, but they'll take ~3 wounds back from the remaining 4 Intercessors even if they don't have any weapon upgrades. Rending claws might be the way to go here if you insist on incorporating them and using them for combat. Other than being a taxi for other Jormungandr units I haven't found a good use for them, as much as I love the models.

4. Venomthropes are risky. They're quite squishy and only have a -1 penalty to-hit to protect them, which honestly won't do much against a lot of armies. It'll also be difficult to hide 8 venomthropes and 6 hive guard. Consider swapping the Venomthropes for a Malanthrope, which as a character with fewer than 10 wounds can't be targeted by non-Sniper units.

5. Consider running two Battalions rather than one Brigade. You lose 2 CP, but it means you free up the points from the Venomthropes (which are risky) and Raveners (which aren't likely to accomplish much) since you no longer need to fill out both 3 elites and 3 fast attack choices. It also lets you drop the Carnifex, which I again don't anticipate to do much (Crushing Claws are unfortunately just bad, and a single Heavy Venom Cannon is unfortunately extremely unreliable). Dropping these gets you 500 points back, which incidentally puts you at the 2000 pt mark. You'd still need a 4th HQ choice though. If you choose to go this route I suggest...

6. Broodlord and Swarmlord as Kraken HQs, with 2x Genestealer (suggest both of these at 20 models; -96 pts) and reduce the 4x20 hormagaunts to 1x30 for the moment (+300 pts). This gives you 204 points back, which is enough to get you 3x3 Ripper Swarms (-99 pts) to put in a Kronos battalion with the other Hive Tyrant, a Malanthrope (-120 pts; you'd need to drop 2 genestealers and 1 gaunt) or Neurothrope (-90 pts), the Hive Guard, and the two Exocrines.

7. If giving the Exocrines an Adaptive Physiology, give them BOTH the Dermic Symbiosis Adaptive Physiology. This makes them both harder to kill, and makes it so your opponent MUST kill them since they only start degrading at 3 wounds rather than 6. An extra d3 mortal wounds is unlikely to make a huge difference for a Kronos Exocrine with Symbiostorm compared to extending the capabilities of your Exocrines or making your opponent divert more firepower into the Exocrines than they otherwise would have liked.

Making the changes in point 6 reduces your swarm capabilities pretty significantly, but there are two things to consider. First, you now have a dedicated first, second, and third waves in your two genestealer squads and your hormagaunt squad. You also now have three cheap objective holders (the ripper swarms) since you definitely don't want to be wasting a squad of 20 hormagaunts sitting on a back-line objective that will never be threatened. Second, it improves the shooting potential of the Exocrines and Hive Guard by placing the Exocrines and the Hive Guard in a Kronos Battalion. This lets you re-roll 1s to-hit if they don't move (which they all want to be stationary, so that's good) and gives you access to the Symbiostorm psychic power which is very good on Hive Guard and EXCELLENT on an Exocrine especially when combined with the Exocrine stratagem that makes it count as if it didn't move.

[No One]

murderfiesta said:

5. Consider running two Battalions rather than one Brigade. You lose 2 CP, but it means you free up the points from the Venomthropes (which are risky) and Raveners (which aren't likely to accomplish much) since you no longer need to fill out both 3 elites and 3 fast attack choices. It also lets you drop the Carnifex, which I again don't anticipate to do much (Crushing Claws are unfortunately just bad, and a single Heavy Venom Cannon is unfortunately extremely unreliable). Dropping these gets you 500 points back, which incidentally puts you at the 2000 pt mark. You'd still need a 4th HQ choice though. If you choose to go this route I suggest...

Very much this. The benefits for a brigade are minimal. Double battalion gets you almost as much, and you lose out on army flexibility and points. Only take a brigade if you need the detachment slots (you don't) or basically fill a brigade anyway (you shouldn't).

In addition to freeing up points, it lets you take the stealers/Swarmlord as Kraken (or Behemoth), and the exo/hive guard as Kronos. Exo/HG gain a lot from Kronos.