Rejoining the Hive, 2000pt Nidzilla C&C please!

[ctrlaltdel337]

Hello fellow Hive Minds,

The usual clichés; getting back into the game, devouring all kinds of battle report and blog content, looking to carve open some pompous Primaris tin cans.

Here's what I've cooked up, primarily with Space Marine opponents in mind, so any feedback on other potentially problematic matchups (or maybe I'm terrible at list creation, and this wouldn't work against SM meta) would be appreciated.



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [46 PL, 7CP, 762pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Hive Fleet

. Other: Metamorphic Regrowth, Prey-sight

+ Stratagems +

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 219pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Resonance Barb, Toxin Sacs, Wings

. Adaptive Physiology: Accelerated Digestion

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 219pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Wings

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

+ Elites +

Haruspex [10 PL, 150pts]

. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size

+ Dedicated Transport +

Tyrannocyte [8 PL, 75pts]: 5x Deathspitter




++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [36 PL, 1CP, 717pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ HQ +

Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Warlord

+ Elites +

Hive Guard [7 PL, 129pts]

. 3x Hive Guard (Impaler): 3x Impaler Cannon

Hive Guard [13 PL, 258pts]

. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon

Zoanthropes [12 PL, 240pts]: Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, 6x Zoanthrope



++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [28 PL, 1CP, 521pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Hive Fleet

. Other: Hypermetabolic Acceleration, Metamorphic Regrowth

+ HQ +

Old One Eye [10 PL, 200pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Carnifexes [6 PL, 107pts]

. Carnifex: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks

Carnifexes [6 PL, 107pts]

. Carnifex: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks

Carnifexes [6 PL, 107pts]

. Carnifex: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks



++ Total: [110 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe



So yeah, a few threat compartments that require significant firepower to bring down. 

Option 1: Twin Flyrants, one of which is equipped to stay alive forever, casting 3 spells per turn and regenerating each time he gobbles up a squad, and each turn passively with the custom fleet adaptation.

Option 2: OOE and the Boys, all with the full drip, lumbering across the board.  Definitely don't want this wrecking ball making it across.

Option 3: Blob 'o Psykers, as we all know can be difficult to remove with their invulns, spitting out lots of mortal wounds.  These would probably make a good first target too, but considering what that decision would free up (see above), I expect these guys to get a lot of casts off.

Option 4: The Hive Battery, these would probably be my first target selection considering their reach and potential damage, particularly in a Kronos detachment with the Neuro putting Symbiostorm on the bigger unit, but as is tradition, these fellows will likely be out of line of sight, I don't intend to serve them up easily for counter shots.

Option 5: Hungry Harry and his Testicle Partybus, this is the coolest model in the codex, and I need him in my life.  He's no joke either, with Murderous Size on his Ravenous Maw, making it 8Str -2AP and 1d3+1Dam, making him a MEQ grinding maniac.  Combined with some very tasty stratagems (Feeding the Hunger for 1cp to reroll ALL hits, and he's already hitting on 3 instead of 4 due to Prey Sight, significantly mitigating his obvious biggest weakness, or the Adrenaline Surge/Overrun combo once he mulches the first MEQ unit he drops in next to), and this guy is likely to go on a complete rampage out of deep strike, all while still dealing with all of the above, since I don't anticipate any one of these threats will be handled in a single turn. (Famous last words...)

Honorable mention: Good old min ripper squads, holding down objectives, deep striking onto awkwardly placed ones, with my opponent unable to commit any resources to removing them.  They may even get a bit of benefit from the 1 wound per turn auto-regen.

So what do y'all think.  Should this work the way I've outlined?  Gimme your thoughts!  Thanks!

[No One]

ctrlaltdel337 said:

So what do y'all think. Should this work the way I've outlined? Gimme your thoughts! Thanks!

Unlikely. So, going into minutae:

Option 1: Twin Flyrants, one of which is equipped to stay alive forever, casting 3 spells per turn and regenerating each time he gobbles up a squad, and each turn passively with the custom fleet adaptation.

You're overestimating a flyrant's survivability here. If a flyrant can get focused, it dies. I've tried out regen on a flyrant at a tournament: it maybe helped a little bit in one game. 3/5, almost killed T1, finished off T2 (the exceptions were when I got first and neutered his army, and against a mostly melee army who didn't do anything to the flyrant till later). This was at 800 pts.

Also, outside of specific circumstances (e.g. murderous size cent hunting, scythes of tyran), MRC>~scy tals. While still having a gun, and being 6 pts cheaper.

Option 2: OOE and the Boys, all with the full drip, lumbering across the board. Definitely don't want this wrecking ball making it across.

You have no Synapse. While this is not an insurmountable issue, being single model units who're wanting to make melee, it's definitely not ideal. Especially with another custom fleet.

Option 4: The Hive Battery, these would probably be my first target selection considering their reach and potential damage, particularly in a Kronos detachment with the Neuro putting Symbiostorm on the bigger unit, but as is tradition, these fellows will likely be out of line of sight, I don't intend to serve them up easily for counter shots.

Depending on opponents, adaptations can be very helpful for living through ignore LoS chip/some mobile firepower.

Option 5: Hungry Harry and his Testicle Partybus, this is the coolest model in the codex, and I need him in my life. He's no joke either, with Murderous Size on his Ravenous Maw, making it 8Str -2AP and 1d3+1Dam, making him a MEQ grinding maniac. Combined with some very tasty stratagems (Feeding the Hunger for 1cp to reroll ALL hits, and he's already hitting on 3 instead of 4 due to Prey Sight, significantly mitigating his obvious biggest weakness, or the Adrenaline Surge/Overrun combo once he mulches the first MEQ unit he drops in next to), and this guy is likely to go on a complete rampage out of deep strike, all while still dealing with all of the above, since I don't anticipate any one of these threats will be handled in a single turn. (Famous last words...)

Hmm...the output is actually decent. But delivery? 9" charge with a relatively fragile model just waiting for your opponent to shoot it. Not sold. Also you're basically just using prey sight just for the haruspex.

Basically, I think you'll struggle with delivery and getting shot to pieces.

[ctrlaltdel337]

You're overestimating a flyrant's survivability here. If a flyrant can get focused, it dies. I've tried out regen on a flyrant at a tournament: it maybe helped a little bit in one game. 3/5, almost killed T1, finished off T2 (the exceptions were when I got first and neutered his army, and against a mostly melee army who didn't do anything to the flyrant till later). This was at 800 pts.

I recognize SOMETHING is going to get shot, and it's likely to be the flyrants, but is there really a more durable HQ choice in the codex? It is what it is, and if it takes them a couple turns to kill both, I'll be satisfied. Hopefully the Hive Guard can keep them covered if they survive T1.

You have no Synapse. While this is not an insurmountable issue, being single model units who're wanting to make melee, it's definitely not ideal. Especially with another custom fleet.

I knew this, but as you say, I don't see it being an issue. Their gameplan is march across the field and kill whatever they find, they're not going to be picky about who they charge, so neither Synapse nor IB should be relevant, but if I'm wrong I believe I can switch Hypermetabolic Aggression to Prey-Sight (useless, but will allow them to be covered by the flyrants I believe, since their custom adaptations match?)

Depending on opponents, adaptations can be very helpful for living through ignore LoS chip/some mobile firepower.

If it seems appropriate, I can leave a tyrant back to protect them from deep striking units. As far as ignore LoS, not much to do but to go first and shoot theirs off the board. Which adaptations do you think work best for keeping these alive?

Hmm...the output is actually decent. But delivery? 9" charge with a relatively fragile model just waiting for your opponent to shoot it. Not sold. Also you're basically just using prey sight just for the haruspex.

Basically, I think you'll struggle with delivery and getting shot to pieces.

8T 13W with three different ways of regaining wounds is fragile? Is there anything beefier besides Lords of War or a Tyrannofex? It's my hope that the hive guard will have softened the enemy gunline by T2 so that Harry has a better chance to not be shot off the board immediately after hitting the table, even if I fail the charge with stratagem suppport. You're not wrong, each of these elements taken individually is very handleable by most SM lists, that's just the meta we seem to be in, but I think enough of them are going to be able to unload at full effectiveness to do something good.

[spinfeild]

I love the list. I started playing Tyranids just to get into enemy lines and tear stuff up. Unfortunately it just does not seem to work in this edition. Unless you get a good match up or your opponent whiffs in key turns.

Flyrants built for close combat are not very scary. They don’t have enough Attacks (which needs some attention from GW) especially after these new shock assault rules. They are better kitted out with ranged weapons. Give one pathogenesis and badaboom . Mobile psychic gun ships are much scarier than flying nerf bats.

Do not scrap the list or your close combat spirit but do understand that this army has many limitations and does not shred in cc as the fluff would suggest . Play some games and experiment with loadouts on your big guys. For the love of god keep the hauraspex it can work damn it...it has to.

If you want to shred some stuff I have had very consistent success with a brood lord and Genestealers even in games where I lose terribly.

Welcome to the hive.

[ctrlaltdel337]

Thanks for the feedback!

I've heard the same thing many times about the Flyrants, so I think I'll make that adjustment. If that's the case, I can maybe move Harry to the spearhead detachment, give Prey-sight to that detachment instead of the advance reroll (Could even be relevant if one of the Carnifexes needs to move out of 6" from OOE), and give the first detachment different adaptations more suited to shooting Flyrants (Morphic Sinews + Synaptic Augmentation perhaps?) The only problem there would be that Instinctive Behaviour becomes an issue for Harry, because I'll be declaring more multi-charges with him than with the Fexes.

[ctrlaltdel337]

Alright, second draft based on feedback:

Batallion (Behemoth)

Tyrant - Pathogenesis + 4x Devourer + Wings (Smite, Catalyst, The Horror)
Tyrant - Murderous Size + Adrenal Glands + Toxin Sacs + Scythes of Tyran + Wings (Smite, Paroxysm, Unstoppable Hunger) [Thanks for the tip about this in another thread, this is the can opener I was looking for. I'd drop this guy in from reserve on T2, I think, as he has plenty of Psyker+Stratagem+Wargear support to make his T2 charge]

Ripper x3
Ripper x3
Ripper x3

Spearhead (Other - Metamorphic Regrowth + Prey Sight)

OOE

Carnifex - 2x MST, Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks
Carnifex - 2x MST, Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks
Carnifex - 2x MST, Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks

Haruspex - Murderous Size
Tyrannocyte

Vanguard (Kronos)

Neurothrope - *Warlord* (Smite, Symbiostorm)

Zoanthrope x6 - (Onslaught, Smite)
Hive Guard x6 - Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard x3 - Impaler Cannon

1999 Points, 8CP

Do I have enough vehicle removal already, or is there any merit in looking at crushing claws for the Fexes? With OOE + Living Battering Ram + Prey-sight, they're still hitting on 2s with the claws, something to think about?

[No One]

Yeah, prefer this one. I did start a response, but then it got deleted. Basically, haru doesn't have an invul (T8 3+ is not tanky: it's better than T7 3+, but that doesn't make it good), and with a pod it's basically just a worse flyrant. Usually less durable, less on the drop impact and less mobility for more cc punch (requiring investment) that it may not use.

I think the haru is going to be better in the Behemoth det (reroll charges and 3d6 charge option, and Synapse to allow multi-charges), and I'm still not sold on the fexes. Could do with some screening for the hive guard as well. But delivery options for the flyrant are good: I'm not sure how reliable it would be, but it should work more often than not.

Minor point: not sure what your 2nd weapon is for the scythed flyrant?

[ctrlaltdel337]

I hadn't really thought about a second weapon, didn't realize Scythes of Tyran only needs one set to replace. I guess it'll depend on what I expect to face, but maybe Heavy Venom Cannon? Not sure.

Again, I'll need to get a bit of experience to see what kind of threats come for my Hive Guard to know how I want to screen them. Spore mines for zone denial could be an option, as well as Biovores in the Kronos detachment, for the psyker denial synergy.

Here's a compressed 1k point version for me to work towards as a stepping stone, so I can get some games in while I collect/paint:

Batallion (-1CP for Extra Adaptive Physiology)
Custom Hive Fleet (Metamorphic Regrowth + Synaptic Augmentation)

*HQ*
Hive Tyrant - Wings, Pathogenesis, 4x Devourers, Voracious Ammunition (Catalyst, Onslaught)
Neurothrope - Warlord, (Psychic Scream)

*Troops*
(Ripper x3) x3

*Elites*
Haruspex - Murderous Size
Hive Guard (Impaler) x3
Zoanthrope x6 - (The Horror)

Tyrannocyte - Deathspitter x5


I figure Behemoth isn't worthwhile here, as the Haruspex is the only unit doing any charging, and a CP reroll is statistically pretty close to Behemoth's trait. Also the psychic ability will be useless, as I expect Harry to be wounding on 2s regardless. I think I should get a fair bit of mileage out of single rerolls on my Hive Guard + Tyrant, maybe even Harry if he's close to the Tyrant. Also want to spend one CP to try out Voracious Ammunition on the shooty Flyrant, considering he's got the pepper variety of Dakka, I think he might get some mileage out of extra mortal wounds on units that make good saving throws. No room for it in the big list, but worth trying out here I think.

[beetlejuice]

I’ve been disappointed by voracious ammunition since the mortals are applied at the end of shooting phase. Usually I want to make sure I kill what I shoot at in order to score and relying on a dice roll like that usually means I make sure to overkill by shooting with something else as well in which case those extra mortal wounds mean nothing. Nice when you’re trying to force morale losses though.