Across the board nerfs for Space Marines in new FAQ

[xtztxtxz]

Space marine nerfs at last


Ravenguard

IronHands

Blood of Baal

Ritual of the Damned



tl;dr:

Doctrines must change each turn, they can't stay in the same one all game

Duty Eternal is now -1 damage and doesn't stack with other similar rules

Iron Hands intercessors can't tank wounds for vehicles

No more infiltrating RG Centurions

[xtztxtxz]

* sound of Adepticon army lists furiously being rewritten *

At the end of the day, 40K tournaments – no matter how large, prestigious or competitive – are about providing an

opportunity for players to spend time with friends old and new, to divine the state of their luck as revealed by their

dice and, most importantly, to have fun. As Tournament Organizer of 40K events at AdeptiCon, providing an enjoyable

experience is foremost on my mind. After good sportsmanship, nothing promotes fun more than balance within

the game, and so I am excited to tell you that AdeptiCon will fully implement the adjustments in the Space Marines

February 2020 update.

Taken as a whole, these changes undeniably and significantly level the playing field in competitive 40K, revitalise the

health of the meta and keep the idea of having fun where it belongs: front and centre.

- Jason Lippert, Tournament Organiser and Head Judge, AdeptiCon 40K Events

[xsquidz]

Feb 27, 2020 13:10:30 GMT xtztxtxz said:

Space marine nerfs at last


Ravenguard

IronHands

Blood of Baal

Ritual of the Damned



tl;dr:

Doctrines must change each turn, they can't stay in the same one all game

Duty Eternal is now -1 damage and doesn't stack with other similar rules

Iron Hands intercessors can't tank wounds for vehicles

No more infiltrating RG Centurions

About time and I am happy to see this, they are still going to be super powerful, just a bit less.  I don't think it nerfs any of them into unplayable just into now manageable!

[kaervek]

Little harsh to Dev Doc users.. but they (IH, IF) asked for it.

As a Nid/GSC/BA player.. This is massive all over. BA took a VERY in-direct buff by losing nothing and staying the same.

Good on GW for putting this out, and listening to feedback. And prior to and CA timing. 

We may finally see some new lesser seen flavors of Space Marines to play against now and not die to -4 ChapDread lascannons all game long..

[zimko]

chap dreads are still in as far I can tell. Does this effect them in some way?

[gorsameth]

Glad to see GW is willing to act, No nerf to Tremor Shells makes me a sad but we'll see how this impacts the Meta.

PS. Don't RG just switch to Aggressors instead of Centurions? Slightly worse but still great.

[gorsameth]

Feb 27, 2020 14:47:45 GMT zimko said:

chap dreads are still in as far I can tell. Does this effect them in some way?

IH infantry can no longer soak wounds for Chap Dreads.

So they are less broken but still amazing and undercosted.

[kazetanade]

Feb 27, 2020 14:47:45 GMT zimko said:

chap dreads are still in as far I can tell. Does this effect them in some way?

They dont get -4 lascannons on T2 onwards for one.

They dont naturally reroll 1s on T2 onwards for second, meaning they have to have a captain nearby to still reroll, meaning the ball is super tight or they lose output. 

They will be forced to take penalties to hit for moving for 3rd, thereby reducing their ability to be mobile and output damage still. LOS Blockers become more relevant when people cant move around them. Keeping in mind Captain buff and the rest of the army needing to move, they're left behind or shoot worse.

If you drop shooters behind them... Intercessors cant eat the hit for them anymore. So they're back to being killable. 

Add on the inherent builds of invuls cutting down lascannon effectiveness and less emphasis on killing only in the new ITC ruleset, Chappy Dreads are much less relevant. 

[No One]

gorsameth said:

PS. Don't RG just switch to Aggressors instead of Centurions? Slightly worse but still great.

They could, or could just DS a bunch of cents anyway, which is already a build. I think aggressors are more than slightly worse: you really want the punch and the durability if you're getting that close and doing stuff T1.

[kazetanade]

Feb 27, 2020 15:05:32 GMT No One said:

gorsameth said:

PS. Don't RG just switch to Aggressors instead of Centurions? Slightly worse but still great.

They could, or could just DS a bunch of cents anyway, which is already a build. I think aggressors are more than slightly worse: you really want the punch and the durability if you're getting that close and doing stuff T1.

Nothing wrong with Aggressors, with the new deployment thing going on double tapping Aggressors in your face is going to be painful. Assault Cents get most value when they can come down and blow a hole in you with shooting, then punch another hole in combat, while being really tanky. Aggressors do all the same things, but are easier to kill on a more manageable wound count and manageable armor save, but are still stupidly cost efficient (222pts vs 340pts or something). 

The new Doc changes really makes Tac armies a lot more likeable. I feel like Sallies will make a big return. UM is going to be the only Chapter that can get at least 3 turns of preferred Combat Doctrine on their key units and that really adds to their viability, I think. 

[No One]

Why? What advantages do Sallies bring over RG or UM? Sallies were never a thing outside of self sacrifice: they just don't really have any kit that isn't super close, with none of RG's delivery. It's not like cc's meta for all the flamers/pistol/overwatch strats to be relevant...

[nidzy]

To be clear, you can still use the "infiltrators" stratagem on centurions. You just can't master of ambush them. The way I am running them is with advance and charge WL trait (+1 to each with hungry for battle trait) and using infiltrators basically to move and advance twice to start the game. Even going second this gets you to the midfield or behind something. Without seize it means you do this with impunity if going first.

This is not killing my 15 cent RG list at all, I think RG came out way better than fists/hands. Two turns in tactical is generally plenty. If I haven't killed the big character I need to kill by turn 3 I prob lost.

The thing with aggressors and master of ambush is that you can set up to shoot them twice on the first turn which is pretty good for what it is. I think now I just move to taking the no overwatch WL trait instead.

[kazetanade]

Feb 27, 2020 15:33:36 GMT nidzy said:

To be clear, you can still use the "infiltrators" stratagem on centurions. You just can't master of ambush them. The way I am running them is with advance and charge WL trait (+1 to each with hungry for battle trait) and using infiltrators basically to move and advance twice to start the game. Even going second this gets you to the midfield or behind something. Without seize it means you do this with impunity if going first.

This is not killing my 15 cent RG list at all, I think RG came out way better than fists/hands. Two turns in tactical is generally plenty. If I haven't killed the big character I need to kill by turn 3 I prob lost.

The thing with aggressors and master of ambush is that you can set up to shoot them twice on the first turn which is pretty good for what it is. I think now I just move to taking the no overwatch WL trait instead.

I dont think running them across will be the standard - can you choose whether to run or to DS them? But more relevant is that if you run and advance (the pregame one is fine, but not the movement phase one), RG Cents basically get no shooting time. Their value in melee is alright, it's nasty where it needs to be nasty, but why they're so ridiculously good is the package on Shoot, Fight, Tank. If you only tank, they are "ok" ish. If you only Fight and Tank, you're good (cuz you're hitting chaff) but not great. 

Aggressors are a cheap choice that tanks good for their cost but have ludicrous output for the cost. They'll start in range, then unload 100 shots into whatever's in the front, then you can kill them with the rest of your army, but they'll have gotten the better trade theoretically. If it's the total package, you'll get a 7" rerollable or something charge for them into the front most unit, while they burn the back unit, basically getting a similar result as to Centurions, but less tanky (but no less troublesome and high priority). 

Forcing RG to need to DS them puts them on parr with all other DS armies, such as GSC. Of course the balance is still heavily on RG's favour instead of factions like GSC, but you do lose the "I'll screw you if I go first, I'll screw you if I go second, I'll screw you if you sieze and go first, and I'll still screw you if you sieze and go second even if that's not actually possible". You now have T1 to at least set up the map, such as pushing out with Scouts or Termagants, secure your hostages to deny shooting, or pow down on some of the support shooting, etc etc. It's not a "start the game with 2/3 or half an army" level of advantage. I think this firmly sets them up as competitive but not consistent podium placer. 

[LordPathos]

Nerfs to SM but NOT my Grey Knights?! Heresy!
Delicious heresy!

[gorsameth]

Feb 27, 2020 16:53:47 GMT LordPathos said:

Nerfs to SM but NOT my Grey Knights?! Heresy!
Delicious heresy!

new GK's have barely hit the competitive scene. I'd say go be most of the top 10 for multiple months and GW might step out of their schedule to nerf you but by then we'll be close to the April/May Faq anyway.