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Post by hiveoverall on Feb 8, 2020 15:33:25 GMT
Some very good stuff, but you don’t even need the five fingers of a hand to count them. I will be fielding a lot of build a bear cult combining the no penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons (infantry) and reroll mining weapons for neophyte spam with mining lasers (even seismic canon can perhaps see play now). Of course magus strat is great, along with advance and charge. Strat for aco (TW acolytes come to mind) charging after advance seems pretty good. The ridge runner on is good too.
Feels indeed like GW gave us the finger because there is so little stuff, but Nid stuff hase barely more usable Stuff so...
I say we got what I was expecting, perhaps a little less. But at least I really feel like my neophyte build has some real teeth now. I dunno, perhaps I will end up being pleased with this small (very small) content
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Post by killercroc on Feb 8, 2020 15:46:45 GMT
My reaction summed up: Lets see, 'Build a cult' is a laugh. They cut up the codex cults and gave you their abilities but still somehow weaker. Hunter's Instincts is a worse version of 4AE, Innate fighters is a cult Icon so you'll save 10 points here and there but only on the turn you charged so that's weak. Thralls is Hive Cult. Armour-piercing ammo is a joke, first off it seems like it should be a strat not a CP. Scions get increase AP by one for all of their weapons, we get increase AP on Auto weapons within half range... that's pretty damn pathetic. A few possible combos like ignore -1 to move and shoot heavy weapons and re-roll to hit with heavy mining weapons means you can have a pretty shooty Neophyte focused army that could be fun. Devout Worshipers, re-roll charge for metamorphs and units within 3" of them, new strat that gives metas +1 A and they cost as much as Acos now is pretty damn good, pair that with either Innate fighters or Poisoned blades to make Aco/Meta bombs extra stabby. As far as I could tell the Strats were all really good, Alphua Vox Contact is really handy, Jackal strat to re-roll wounds with pistol and assault weapons makes those Shotgun/Demo-bomb/flamer bombs really good. Finally a CP to let the Magus cast another power (IDK why he can't cast 2 already he's 80 points, IG Primaris is cheaper and can cast 2) Cult powers seem pretty ok, nothing mind blowing but nothing enraging. But the big kick to the toxin sacs is no new relics and no unique Gene Cult special rules. Overall, I'd say this is somehow worse than the minor buff Tyranids got with BoB, but given to a weaker army that struggles more. I'm really not quite sure what all to say... if I say what I really want to say I'd probably get banned so I'll just summarize it by saying if anyone illegally gained access to the contents of this book and GW lost money I wouldn't lose any sleep at night. [EDIT] Fixed wording
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Post by hiveoverall on Feb 8, 2020 16:04:46 GMT
The cult creed is « Reroll to hit for mining weapons », not reroll to wound. Unless I read it wrong ?
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Post by killercroc on Feb 8, 2020 16:07:46 GMT
No you're right my bad I mis-typed there it is re-roll to hit. So it's move & shoot plus re-rolls to hit.
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Post by gorsameth on Feb 8, 2020 16:10:06 GMT
I think that this feels like a nerf. Sure, we got rules, but everyone else got more or better rules, so this is effectively a nerf. I think we're really seeing the impact of GWs 6 month print cycle. GSC was performing pretty well and GW didn't understand the effect of marines at that point (yes, they should have). So, they then give everyone buffs, but we get less buffs. I'm disappointed in what we'll be getting. I also feel a bit trapped into getting the book: if you don't get the new rules, you're playing with one hand behind your back. We live in an age of internet and cellphones/tablets. There is no need to pay GW for a full book with 4 pages of rules, most of which you will never use.
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Post by hiveoverall on Feb 8, 2020 16:18:04 GMT
I don’t think any gsc player who doesn’t play the other two factions will buy this supplement. I also play guard and I still won’t be buying it. Also I think 3 factions in a supplement is not a good thing. Two is good, easier focus.
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Post by syrcle on Feb 8, 2020 16:21:44 GMT
We need something to mitigate all these rules that every army are gaining against deep strikes. Every other buffs are welcome but not necessary. Alpha legion for example is far better than marines in countering us in that aspect, where marines with ombi-scramblers and many scouting unit are already in a good shape. Now we have to study how PA can affect the mix of tyr, gsc and brood brothers. Bullgryns new stratagem, maleceptor, new magus’s spell on vehicles; we have many bubble that include other army with no keyword required (at the moment), this is stimulating at least.
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Post by killercroc on Feb 8, 2020 16:28:16 GMT
GSC is 4 pages, should really have been included in with Nid stuff. Somehow I feel like they got the same person who wrote the Nid stuff to do it because it just feels so much like watered down versions of existing stuff. I also have guard and while I don't play Tau I do like them so I'll still be picking it up but not specifically for GSC.
GSC are really not an army, they're an add-on army and I think one of the big issues was from the start GW tried to make them their own thing but they don't have the content to do it. Besides a boatload of characters you have a basic shooty troop, basic combat troop, elite combat version of troop, elite big combat unit and fast shooty unit. That's it, that's the cult. The rest is either Guard stuff, a character that does what the units do or a few small vehicles that're just copies of existing units in the game with tweaks. GSC should really just be an add-on for Nids on like a 500-1000 point detachment and that's it.
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Post by N.I.B. on Feb 8, 2020 17:14:26 GMT
I also feel a bit trapped into getting the book: if you don't get the new rules, you're playing with one hand behind your back. Unless you download the pdf. I'm not saying you should, oh no.
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Post by bolk on Feb 8, 2020 18:52:09 GMT
Devout Worshippers
When a charge roll is made for a <CULT> unit with this Cult Creed whilst withing 3" of a friendly <CULT> Hybrid Metamorphs unit, you can reroll the dice. This Cult Creed cannot be selected together with Hunter's Instincts Cult Creed.
Hunter's Instincts
Until the end of the first battle round, add 1 to Advance and charge rolls made for units with this Cult Creed
No ofcourse not, because that would make GSC broken...
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Post by bolk on Feb 8, 2020 19:01:59 GMT
Lets see, 'Build a cult' is a laugh. They cut up the codex cults and gave you their abilities but still somehow weaker. Hunter's Instincts is a worse version of 4AE, Innate fighters is a cult Icon so you'll save 10 points here and there but only on the turn you charged so that's weak. Thralls is Hive Cult. Armour-piercing ammo is a joke, first off it seems like it should be a strat not a CP. Scions get increase AP by one for all of their weapons, we get increase AP on Auto weapons within half range... that's pretty damn pathetic. You know, it's almost like Cruddace is the Lead Games Designer at GW...
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Post by killercroc on Feb 8, 2020 19:41:47 GMT
Oh can't be used with Hunter's Instincts... basically the only way Hunters Instincts would EVER be useful. No I mean really, +1 to run and charge for T1? So lets see... Nothing can run and charge except for Purestrains and they don't get cult traits... so there is now 1 CP to get Acolytes run and charge. Now... +1 to advance and charge means 6" base, max 7" advance is 13" and on the maps with a 24" dead zone that means you can charge the units touching the line, still needing an 11 but 10 with cult... Now please tell me, what brain dead, charity case, minority disability hire POSSIBLY thought this was A). A good idea to begin with and B). So powerful it needed to be uncombinable with the other cult trait?
Am I taking crazy pills here? Hunters Instinct is one of the worst traits possible to take out of every trait in every codex! It only works T1 and it's practically not going to get you into combat and that +1" to advance is never going to combo with assault weapons T1 to be even halfway apart of any strategy. I mean my God! I could eat a dictionary and (please do not swear) out a better set of rules than these people!
Basically you have to go second and hope your opponent is coming to you to even get the chance to potentially use this trait. Or happen to roll one of the maps with an 18" dead zone and your opponent places any units on their deployment line. It's Cult of the 4 armed emperors annoying kid brother that the Patriarch said they had to take them with when they went out playing with their friends.
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Post by wormlord666 on Feb 8, 2020 21:24:13 GMT
Rusted Claw spell is nice for a blob of flamers/fighters. Drop in PA (with at least A4+ roll), Psych the enemy, flame with AP-1, fight with rending -2/-5 and knifes with -1. Metamorphs with million attacks with talons could benefit s well.
... then again... TW and bladed cog will be better.
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Post by xtztxtxz on Feb 9, 2020 0:32:05 GMT
GSC is 4 pages, should really have been included in with Nid stuff. Somehow I feel like they got the same person who wrote the Nid stuff to do it because it just feels so much like watered down versions of existing stuff. I also have guard and while I don't play Tau I do like them so I'll still be picking it up but not specifically for GSC. GSC are really not an army, they're an add-on army and I think one of the big issues was from the start GW tried to make them their own thing but they don't have the content to do it. Besides a boatload of characters you have a basic shooty troop, basic combat troop, elite combat version of troop, elite big combat unit and fast shooty unit. That's it, that's the cult. The rest is either Guard stuff, a character that does what the units do or a few small vehicles that're just copies of existing units in the game with tweaks. GSC should really just be an add-on for Nids on like a 500-1000 point detachment and that's it. The sad thing is that GSC didn't have to be an add-on army, but for some reason GW have gone out of their way to pre-nerf any potentially risky combos (probably thanks to the fact we can put both IG and Tyranid units into the same force). So we end up with a bunch of arbitrary restrictions that are probably good ideas in theory (like the 1 character/detachment rule) but are dumb because they don't apply to any other faction. The new cult creeds are so weird because instead of trying to foster a specific playstyle like other factions, they just exclude whole chunks of the available codex by applying to single models or unit choices: - The 'armywide' buffs to mining weapons only affect one codex unit because vehicles don't get them.
- The 'armywide' buff to psychic casting only affects a max of one model per detachment, because the Patriarch can't use it.
- There's a 'Devout Worshippers' trait that requires very close proximity to Metamorphs and only Metamorphs. Why not purestrains or the Patriarch too? Why wasn't this just a stratagem?
The underlying codex design is odd too. Over 50% of our unit entries can't use a cult creed. Patriarchs & Purestrains can't despite starting the whole thing off & living at the centre of the cult for all of it's existence. Neither can Vehicles, whose crew presumably live in segregated housing to stop them learning to coordinate too closely with their kin, until they see the final uprising message posted on Reddit. 25% of the codex entries are Brood Brothers, but those units barely interact with the rest of the codex in any meaningful way. Cult creeds, relics, most stratagems and most character auras don't work on them at all. It's like having a trial version of Codex: Imperial Guard except it's not free because we're paying points & cash for it. For a faction portrayed as the result of a plan literally generations in the making, rising up all at once with painstaking coordination, it's perplexing not to see that represented on the tabletop.
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Post by No One on Feb 9, 2020 0:54:14 GMT
Oh can't be used with Hunter's Instincts... basically the only way Hunters Instincts would EVER be useful. No I mean really, +1 to run and charge for T1? So lets see... Nothing can run and charge except for Purestrains and they don't get cult traits... so there is now 1 CP to get Acolytes run and charge. Now... +1 to advance and charge means 6" base, max 7" advance is 13" and on the maps with a 24" dead zone that means you can charge the units touching the line, still needing an 11 but 10 with cult... Now please tell me, what brain dead, charity case, minority disability hire POSSIBLY thought this was A). A good idea to begin with and B). So powerful it needed to be uncombinable with the other cult trait? Am I taking crazy pills here? Hunters Instinct is one of the worst traits possible to take out of every trait in every codex! It only works T1 and it's practically not going to get you into combat and that +1" to advance is never going to combo with assault weapons T1 to be even halfway apart of any strategy. I mean my God! I could eat a dictionary and (please do not swear) out a better set of rules than these people! Basically you have to go second and hope your opponent is coming to you to even get the chance to potentially use this trait. Or happen to roll one of the maps with an 18" dead zone and your opponent places any units on their deployment line. It's Cult of the 4 armed emperors annoying kid brother that the Patriarch said they had to take them with when they went out playing with their friends. Do remember you can PA out of blips, so you're essentially at opportunistic stealer threat range (just without the reliability of the 3d6 advance). Which could have some neat use if someone gets too close with scouts. But when FAE gets the T1 +1 adv/charge, and gets the flexibility of not just having it T1, great WLT and great strat? Yeah, no competition here. For a faction portrayed as the result of a plan literally generations in the making, rising up all at once with painstaking coordination, it's perplexing not to see that represented on the tabletop. The balance/thematics of GSC as a Codex is really hit or miss. The DS infantry stuff is great, and...that's about it.
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