Weapon beast rule and hit modifiers question

[nod007]

I was playing a game with tyrannofex and was gonna shoot with him and then shoot again, then my opponent ask me if I didn't need to declare all my attacks first. I tried using google but didn't find clear enough answers.
But I know that from rulebook update 1.2 it said that you resolve the first shooting attack completely before resolving the second.

1. When you shoot again do you need declare in the same time as you shoot the first time. So you cant see if you kill target the first time you shoot.

2. Hit modifiers: when you shoot overheated plasma with minus to hit you explode on roll 1 and 2? Right?
But if you have ability to reroll roll of 1 also with negative hit roll you still only reroll the roll of one. Why is that?
Is the order you do hit modifiers and reroll, first reroll then modifiers?

[Hive Fleet Ragnorok]

1) I've always played (and seen others play) that you declare targets for both rounds of shooting before rolling any dice. Unfortunately I can't quote a source that outlines this... maybe in one of the FAQ's?

2) Re-rolls happen before +/- modifiers, so you re-roll 1's first, and once that's through the modifier kicks in and all 2's become 1's.

[mule]

First select the unit: tfex
Then you select what that unit shoots at: It shoots at unit a.
resolve shooting
Then you select what that unit shoots at again because you didn't move: it shoots at unit b.
resolve shooting

You cannot however do this
Select tfex
select unit a to shoot at.
Select hiveguard
select unit b to shoot at with hivegaurd
select tfex
select unit b to shoot at with tfex.

Dictating all your shoots one volley at a and one volley at b is under the quick rolling rules and that is upto you. You can roll all the dice at the same time aslong as you dictate what shots go where, but effectively this is two units shooting, except you can only select a unit once during the shooting phase. 

[kazetanade]

^ about sums it up.

[No One]

I don't actually think you get to do a full separate resolution: you get to shoot all the weapons twice. That just means you get to shoot all weapons twice, but doesn't mean that you get to choose the unit to shoot with twice, which is what you'd require for changing picking targets separately. That said, the FAQ sort of implies otherwise (and Maugan Ra at least has similar wording, shooting his weapon twice, so the FAQ definitely applies in full)? i.e. The content of the FAQ doesn't disagree, but it feels oddly phrased if shooting the weapons twice just gives you (in essence) two of that weapon.

Edit: Compare and contrast with the wording of suppresion fire (TFC double tap strat):

You can choose that model to shoot with an additional
time that phase, but when it does, it can only shoot with
weapons that can target units that are not visible to the bearer.

[nod007]

Jan 27, 2020 2:44:18 GMT mule said:

First select the unit: tfex
Then you select what that unit shoots at: It shoots at unit a.
resolve shooting
Then you select what that unit shoots at again because you didn't move: it shoots at unit b.
resolve shooting

You cannot however do this
Select tfex
select unit a to shoot at.
Select hiveguard
select unit b to shoot at with hivegaurd
select tfex
select unit b to shoot at with tfex.

Dictating all your shoots one volley at a and one volley at b is under the quick rolling rules and that is upto you. You can roll all the dice at the same time aslong as you dictate what shots go where, but effectively this is two units shooting, except you can only select a unit once during the shooting phase. 

I know you need to finish shooting with the tyrannofex before shooting with something alse and also I know you can shoot at different targets each time. The only thing I dont know is do you need to declare the second shooting attack at the same time as the first one or can you declare the target for the second shooting attack after you finished with the first shooting attack?

[Kitane]

I treat both shootings as separate (it doesn't say otherwise) activations, following the ruling for units that fight twice like Berzerkers.

Q: If a unit has an ability that allows it to fight twice in the Fight
phase (e.g. Berzerkers), at what point during the Fight phase do
they fight for the second time?

A: Treat each time the unit is able to fight as a separate
unit selected to fight for all purposes.

So, if such a unit charged this turn, it will fight both
times before any units that did not charge. If the unit
did not charge this turn, then, after all units that did
charge have fought, you can select this unit to fight with,
then your opponent can select a unit to fight with, then
you can select your unit to fight with for the second
time (you need not consecutively use both of the unit’s
opportunities to fight – unless of course there are no
other eligible units to select to fight with).

[No One]

That would unquestionably be the case if it said something along the lines of 'select the unit to shoot again' or something along those lines. It doesn't: it just gets to shoot the weapons twice. If we were to compare it to berzerkers, would you give another pile in/consolidate if it said they could swing twice with their melee weapons?

[Kitane]

Hmm. I see where you are coming from.

To me, "it can shoot all of its weapons twice" is just a different wording for "it can shoot twice", it means the same.

Here I found another one (though it's quoted from dakka post from 2018, FAQ site is currently down, so I can't 100% confirm it wasn't changed)

From the rulebook update 1.2.

Q: If a unit has an ability that allows it to ‘shoot twice’ (e.g.
Maugan Ra’s Whirlwind of Death ability, or an Aggressor
Squad’s Fire Storm ability), do I need to shoot the same target
each time or can I choose different targets? Do I need to resolve
these two shooting attacks back to back?
A: Unless otherwise stated, you can shoot different targets
each time it shoots. The attacks are resolved back to
back – resolve the first shooting attack completely before
resolving the second

Now the actual wording on Maugentar, Maugen Ra's weapon:

Whirlwind of Death: Maugan Ra can fire the Maugetar twice in each Shooting phase.

edit: Now that I think about it, it says something else than I thought. They have to be resolved one after another, but you can still declare new targets for the second round, right?

[No One]

Kitane said:

To me, "it can shoot all of its weapons twice" is just a different wording for "it can shoot twice", it means the same.

Now you're adding wording that isn't there.

They have to be resolved one after another, but you can still declare new targets for the second round, right?

They can shoot different targets, it says right in the FAQ. Now, can they declare the 2nd targets after the first round? Well, FAQ is unclear, but I don't see enough justification in the FAQ to allow separate declaration. It all sounds like it matches with step 3 of shooting, where you'd need to do step 1 and 2 again for separate target declarations.

3. Choose Ranged Weapon
The weapons a model has are listed
on its datasheet. If a model has several
weapons, it can shoot all of them at the
same target, or it can shoot each at a
different enemy unit. Similarly, if a unit
contains more than one model, they can
shoot at the same, or different targets as
you choose. In either case, declare how
you will split the shooting unit’s shots
before any dice are rolled, and resolve
all the shots against one target before
moving on to the next.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Id personally always played it that the Tfex would declare round 1, shoot round 1, then declare round 2. That being said, it's unclear based upon both wordings. I'll send an email to the FAQ team later.

[naviedzony]

I was ruled twice that I have to declare both shots before resolving any of them.

[purestrain]

The gw faq page is offline atm but Iirc they added a part for the tyrannofex in it. I could be thinking something else but I'll check when it's back unless someone has the latest on them to appraise me of my stupidity

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Jan 27, 2020 13:32:33 GMT purestrain said:

The gw faq page is offline atm but Iirc they added a part for the tyrannofex in it. I could be thinking something else but I'll check when it's back unless someone has the latest on them to appraise me of my stupidity

Nothing I'm seeing at least. (FAQ page is working for me).

[mule]

You only declare the first shots. Then you declare the second shots after your first shots are resolved.