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Post by bigpig on Jan 13, 2020 11:27:38 GMT
A Mawloc is a trap. Next to no support character is 3W so no matter what you're not finishing the job with a Mawloc. It's better with a Sniper, which pure Nids don't have hence I wouldn't bother. It sort of works against low wound count units that are otherwise difficult to get to, or get high value from a couple of wounds. But about all I can think of for that are TFC (finish off with biovores) and maybe stuff like eliminators/dark reapers. Otherwise...it's an OK amount of MW, but those require other units to get value from and are less helpful because they're spread out. Same thoughts and for 100pts.... eh, maybe. There are a lot of hard to get to things that this can damage... but not kill as mentioned.
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 13, 2020 15:34:43 GMT
So, thoughts about what was said regarding Tau, Orks, Eldar: - Eldar list doesnt work too well vs us. An Exocrene drop kills Night Spinners - 6 shots 3+ rr1 explodes on 5s, 5 hits + 2 explodes = 7 hits, 4+ to wound for 3-4 wounds for 9-12 damage. NS only has 12 wounds. Shoot x2 definitely kills, but we could possibly kill 2 with 1 Exocrene. If he LR, we can swap targets and get the HG to finish off both. Flyrant drops can and probably will murder Eldar planes, and melee murders the Spears. The only thing we cant really deal with is the Warlock Star and stacked Psychic, so that one the best we could do is probably wear it down while killing everything else. It's an extremely resource hungry but effectively tanky platform, so playing around it is genuinely hard. Everything else should be manageable. - Tau lists are always hard for Nids, esp traditional GS Sling. Our lists arent exactly Shooty-friendly, so I'd say we have to leverage our psychic. But let's say we managed to get a Genestealer unit mostly into combat safely... well, the blender is supposed to be real. 80A, 55H, 27W, 13F, ? (it sounds so horrible actually. Drones are really stupid.) Probably need a Behemoth spell to make things swing properly and wipe out a Drone squad at least, Fight Twice to decimate thereafter or just another Drone squad. But honestly, if we were using the Maleceptor + Malanthrope combo on 2 units of Stealers with Plates and Adaptation, Tau probably starts to groan like mad since its difficult as hell to remove us (Riptides are one of the few partially unaffected since HBC 12=18 shots are S6, but since half their output comes from SMS, they wound on a 4+ instead of a 3+, output gets cut quite a bit). and if it isnt 50 Drones then we can probably target the non-Fly or non-invul things to really tear it apart. Warriors would be just as if not more difficult to remove, and could handle this much better since they just shoot and never get Overwatched. - Ork skews are always weird. Genestealers eat Orks, Orks eat Genestealers, it's a give and take. This is probably one of the lists that I would fight and just get grinded out against, but a well-used Genestealer unit out of DS or something like that has a lot of potential. Some real quick feedback from my game: -DS Genestealers look like they could work. I can feel real tension at the back of my mind for that charge, esp when I see the first roll of 3/2/2. Good odds are that the next roll will be feasibly high enough to make that charge, but it feels scary. Not sure I'd want to do that again in future. Surprisingly, even on gut feel that 4/4 result feels really good, but 5/4 feels horrible. The bigger issue with them is that GS dropping out of DS might not have access to their Behemoth spell, and that spell is pretty much what makes them going to blender sufficiently. I'm considering whether I need this unit to be my blender Cents/Knights/Tanks unit with TS, but I'm pretty hesitant on this because out of DS in Psyker Range is not a really reliable thing and TS is bloody expensive. If I had choices, I would probably do them GS Sling with SL, make them tanky turn 1, send the Hormas if they get TFC'ed because they can tank a lot of TFC/Bolter/Exec damage with the Cover/Plate/Encephalic/Malan/Resistance or Dynamic combo. -God. Damn. Oblitz. God. Damn. Knights. I hate Knights way more than I hate Marines, and those Oblitz are churning out 18 shots that completely decimate this 1 thing every time it shoots. 2+ rr1 exploding 6s with rr S/ap/D shooting twice, godamnit. I'm just lucky they dont have Transhuman or else I'd never get them out of my backline. They completely decimate whatever shooters I have that arent in DS. - The Maleceptor becomes Priority 1 in defending - Malanthrope is naturally defended so that's ok, the Maleceptor is too easy to kill. EG, an Oblitz blow out beside you, or just Helverins/Butcher Cannons or an unlucky volley of Lascannons. Executioner Cannons are instant death sentence. I have this issue of how do you protect HG and Maleceptor and SL at the same time - it's a real problem, since there's not enough real estate. Even 2 of them can be a bit of a challenge. At the end of the day I think if we're going to do a GS Sling, we will have to accept that HG cannot be hidden with all 3 in play, and will have to DS them down. Still need an answer to 4W annoyances like Cents, Oblitz, and Grotesques. Is it just me or is every 4W chassis ridiculously stat efficient?
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Post by bigpig on Jan 14, 2020 0:55:25 GMT
Kaz, how are you running the DS stealers? Pods or trygon?
Regarding the Mal, how are you keeping it alive turn 1? In a big bug list, I think it is more survivable, but in a standard little bug list it presents the only target for anti tank stuff and I could see it being hard to hide effectively. Its really not any tougher than a hive tyrant and we know how easy those can be to burn down
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 14, 2020 7:19:49 GMT
Kaz, how are you running the DS stealers? Pods or trygon? Regarding the Mal, how are you keeping it alive turn 1? In a big bug list, I think it is more survivable, but in a standard little bug list it presents the only target for anti tank stuff and I could see it being hard to hide effectively. Its really not any tougher than a hive tyrant and we know how easy those can be to burn down Trygon Prime with Arachnyte for self sufficient charge plug play. Still needs Spell to be useful against noninfantry, so am considering if wanted to do that, maybe with a Flyrant and Pod? 9" is mad short range to work around. Malaceptor is taking up the HG/SL, cover spot. It's really hard to hide all 3. You might get half volume mitigation with BLOS positioning, and that's enough to keep it alive if not fully hidden. SL + TG in latest, + Malan/Enca means SL can actually stand out in the open. TG + above + Adaptation means can't be broken down first to expose SL. It's a tough setup to break, but might be vulnerable to extreme focus.
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Post by hiveoverall on Jan 16, 2020 13:33:39 GMT
I have tried 20*2 behemoth DSing stealers (tyranocytes) and it is waaaay too swingy for its cost, and too sensitive to overwatch (though we can deal with that, lictor, gen cult, flyrant with relic gland charging first). Too many points tied into it. As expected, they don't compare well to gen cult acolytes. And even when it works it is too expensive and overkilly. It is a really bad concept, you realise that after trial and failure hah hah
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Post by bigpig on Jan 17, 2020 0:54:32 GMT
I have tried 20*2 behemoth DSing stealers (tyranocytes) and it is waaaay too swingy for its cost, and too sensitive to overwatch (though we can deal with that, lictor, gen cult, flyrant with relic gland charging first). Too many points tied into it. As expected, they don't compare well to gen cult acolytes. And even when it works it is too expensive and overkilly. It is a really bad concept, you realise that after trial and failure hah hah
Was kind of my thoughts after a few practice games with DSing. I think maybe there is a place for DSing Hormies with Trygon Prime? Not as a key point, but to give the ability to threaten from a different direction.
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Post by bigpig on Jan 17, 2020 1:02:06 GMT
Final List I went with (from memory).
Behemoth Battalion Broodlord Swarmlord Malanthrope 19 Stealers 19 Stealers 27 Hormagaunts Lictor
Kronos Battalion Neurothrope 3 Rippers 3 Rippers 12 Termagaunts 6 Hive Guard 3 biovore Exocrine Tyranocye
It has some blind spots but leverages out new tricks and points drops. Also plays well with my fully painted stuff and avoids the needs to finish up a model or two to "battle ready." I'll try and keep ya'll updated during the games. I have another practice RTT this weekend
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Post by mule on Jan 17, 2020 3:13:10 GMT
Curious why you're going with behemoth instead of kraken or build a bear?
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Post by bigpig on Jan 17, 2020 3:22:10 GMT
With build a bear losing access to the psychic powers and strats, I don't see any of the abilities which would make me want them more than a core hive fleet. There are some good ones, but none that just scream "take me." Behemoth because I expect a vehicle heavy meta and unstoppable hunger and brute force does so much to threaten dreads and the like with stealers. Terrain looks good based on my experience to allow me to forgo the double advance strat
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Post by hiveoverall on Jan 17, 2020 9:21:10 GMT
Final List I went with (from memory). Behemoth Battalion Broodlord Swarmlord Malanthrope 19 Stealers 19 Stealers 27 Hormagaunts Lictor Kronos Battalion Neurothrope 3 Rippers 3 Rippers 12 Termagaunts 6 Hive Guard 3 biovore Exocrine Tyranocye It has some blind spots but leverages out new tricks and points drops. Also plays well with my fully painted stuff and avoids the needs to finish up a model or two to "battle ready." I'll try and keep ya'll updated during the games. I have another practice RTT this weekend It should be quite good if as you expect you have decent terrain. The maleceptor would have helped but with just two battalions I don't thinkyou have enough CP to justify investing 160 pts into the maleceptor. However I would have taken double scy tal warriors (or scy tal + pair of BS) instead of 27 hormagaunts, even though hormagaunts are better to stay within range of malanthrope (or swarmy range, but that being a 6 inch range you can get warriors with range easier than with the malanthrope 3' aura range). Also, that list seems very efficient as well as fun to play !
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Post by bigpig on Jan 17, 2020 12:02:59 GMT
It should be quite good if as you expect you have decent terrain. The maleceptor would have helped but with just two battalions I don't thinkyou have enough CP to justify investing 160 pts into the maleceptor. However I would have taken double scy tal warriors (or scy tal + pair of BS) instead of 27 hormagaunts, even though hormagaunts are better to stay within range of malanthrope (or swarmy range, but that being a 6 inch range you can get warriors with range easier than with the malanthrope 3' aura range). Also, that list seems very efficient as well as fun to play ! I don't disagree with you on the warriors or Malaceptor, except I didn't have all the models available to me. Wife and I are moving out of state within a few months and we already packed up some things (6 Warriors on sprue included) and sent them to our new home. Left me with 5 done up. I also can't seem to find a Malaceptor kit and haven't gotten enough practice with it. I'll probably start working both those concepts after LVO though. They have some promise
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Post by bigpig on Jan 19, 2020 7:56:01 GMT
Got some more games in today;
Eldar "anti-marine" gunline murders me unless I go first and then maybe regardless of terrain. I've had this issue before and there is not a way around it. Exocrine does work
Triple Chaos Knight is a great game and this list beats it. The Increased REsistance on HIveguard defeats plague mortars and Knight Hats to let them kill kill kill throughout he game. Genestealers with UH hurt knights. Add in a brute force and caustic blood and its a great trade. Won handily even going second on poor terrain.
Game one was against a subpar necron opponent who was gettin back into game so nothin to report.
Overall I like the list. Behemoth rerolls to charge and UH were clutch several times.
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Post by wormlord666 on Jan 19, 2020 8:52:27 GMT
Good Luck in Vegas. Looks like you will win Best i Faction no matter what (if I read the participant list and rankings right) so you can just show off and shine the whole weekend! But we, the hive, have our eyes and hopes on you. We are in desperate need for somebody to have some success so lets hope you duck the eldars and bring honor to our faction!
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Post by mule on Jan 19, 2020 17:51:00 GMT
Got some more games in today; Eldar "anti-marine" gunline murders me unless I go first and then maybe regardless of terrain. I've had this issue before and there is not a way around it. Exocrine does work Triple Chaos Knight is a great game and this list beats it. The Increased REsistance on HIveguard defeats plague mortars and Knight Hats to let them kill kill kill throughout he game. Genestealers with UH hurt knights. Add in a brute force and caustic blood and its a great trade. Won handily even going second on poor terrain. Game one was against a subpar necron opponent who was gettin back into game so nothin to report. Overall I like the list. Behemoth rerolls to charge and UH were clutch several times. Chaos knight hardly a thing when Lord of Skulls is a thing. Theyre meannn.
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Post by bigpig on Jan 20, 2020 7:46:39 GMT
yeah, they are. Though I expect to see more chaos knight lists than LoS lists. Maybe one LoS list sprinkled in, but trips is few and far between. They took a huge bump with CA, but I don't think that was recent enough to see them in massive numbers. Double melta Chaos Knights are a thing that was and will still be popular. Either way, feeling ok with them
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