|
|
Post by xsquidz on Dec 18, 2019 2:23:04 GMT
Hey guys, here is my first take on a nidzilla list. The point of this is to walk forward (not advance) keep close together for buffs for 1-2 turns then smash into the enemy. If something important becomes exposed then the swarmlord can slingshot out one hive tyrant or something to deal with it but the point is to stay protected. Geoff Robinson (May he rest in peace) once played a list he called the trap door spider and I used to play a similar trapdoor spider list. It’s not about crossing as fast as possible, it’s moving up slowly and then striking out when close and when needed. Rippers just hide out of LOS and DS onto objectives to hold them, if they die, who cares. You can also use them as DS denial to protect your backside or flanks so you don’t have to go backwards. The hive tyrants and hive guard just clear screens with their guns and smites. Bolters are almost useless against this list, -1 to hit, S3 so hitting on 4’s normally and wounding on 6’s, everything has a 2+ save as well. I think a big fear in the meta would be the marine flyer lists (but the double mal will affect them) and executioners since only the -1 to hit really matters against the big gun. I think it could beat the execution list but you would have to get lucky on the 4++ saves and spike a few one turn, CP 1 a turn as well. I am not saying this list is going to win a GT, but I think it could be pretty decent now. You can switch out the hive tyrants to venom cannons or stranglers if needed. The stuff with (OP) are options, either 1 or the other decided each game. I still think GSC is way better then nids but I like that there are options now, for example I would probably want to add some GSC to this list just to get mass hypnosis to stop overwatch. Feel free to tear it apart or say “this” counters it, or “that” counters it but I know.  I think something like this could surprise some people and would be fun to play as well. If something gets wounded and is falling behind you can use Metabolic overdrive so it can catch up, or heal it D3 with a strat. Battalion-Jormangander HQ 1 Hive tyrant-Walking 2 Dual Devourers Monstrous Rending Claws Relic-+1 Cast, Extra Cast/Deny Warlord-Adaptive Biology (OP1) Toxin Sac and Glands 1 Walking Hive Tyrant (Same loadout) 1 Walking Hive Tyrant (Same loadout) Elite 1 Maleceptor Troops 3 Rippers 3 Rippers 3 Rippers Battalion-Jormangander HQ 1 Old One Eye Monsterous Size (OP1) 1 Malanthrope 1 Swarmlord Monsterous Size (OP2) Troops 3 Rippers 3 Rippers 3 Rippers Elite 1 Lictor Battalion-Kronos HQ 1 Neurothrope 1 Neurothrope Troops 3 Rippers 3 Rippers 3 Rippers Elite 6 Hive Guard (OP2) Ignore Ap 1&2 or +2 Cover Models 43 Total |
|
|
|
Post by sarcron on Dec 18, 2019 3:22:45 GMT
You'll fall behind easily on objectives. Only two thirds of your rippers might have a 5+ save, and bolters won't care about the possible strength 3. You also have very little dedicated anti-tank, with only the swarmlord, and maybe the hive guard able to properly deal with tanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by xsquidz on Dec 18, 2019 3:25:16 GMT
You can't have 3 'adaptive physiology's. You also can't have two and a warlord trait. Yep I know that, as I said in my post there are options (OP1) and (OP2). So of the 4 I listed I will take 2 of them. |
|
|
|
Post by sarcron on Dec 18, 2019 3:27:43 GMT
You can't have 3 'adaptive physiology's. You also can't have two and a warlord trait. Yep I know that, as I said in my post there are options (OP1) and (OP2). So of the 4 I listed I will take 2 of them. yeah sorry, just read that after I posted, skimmed a bit too much. |
|
|
|
Post by xsquidz on Dec 18, 2019 3:30:31 GMT
Yep I know that, as I said in my post there are options (OP1) and (OP2). So of the 4 I listed I will take 2 of them. yeah sorry, just read that after I posted, skimmed a bit too much. No problem. |
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 18, 2019 3:48:54 GMT
I'm not sure if there's enough pressure to force them to come to you: and if you don't have that, then trapdoor spider doesn't work. You've got a decent melee threat range with Swamlord, which may be enough, but you can't really full commit with that, meaning it's likely a trade, which isn't great. Definitely HVC, lets you better contest things from a longer range, so they can't just stay at >26" (or even just ~18" if devs aren't a threat).
If they just kill the rippers, focus the 'ceptor T1 and then chip you down T2/3 while keeping up on scoring, then scoring hard 4-6? I don't think it's quite workable. Possibly drop OOE for a big blop of warriors with adapt? I don't think you need more Swarmlord-dependant, suicide damage...
|
|
|
|
Post by xsquidz on Dec 18, 2019 4:03:07 GMT
I'm not sure if there's enough pressure to force them to come to you: and if you don't have that, then trapdoor spider doesn't work. You've got a decent melee threat range with Swamlord, which may be enough, but you can't really full commit with that, meaning it's likely a trade, which isn't great. Definitely HVC, lets you better contest things from a longer range, so they can't just stay at >26" (or even just ~18" if devs aren't a threat). If they just kill the rippers, focus the 'ceptor T1 and then chip you down T2/3 while keeping up on scoring, then scoring hard 4-6? I don't think it's quite workable. Possibly drop OOE for a big blop of warriors with adapt? I don't think you need more Swarmlord-dependant, suicide damage... Yeah like I said its a variant of the trap door spider because YES you move towards them instead of waiting for them to come to you, just don't advance and lose jorg buff, so plod along slowly (its still only going to be 1-2 turns you have to weather before you are in range) as tyrants walking still move 9" and once you are in range, strike at multiple targets. I used to advance a malanthrope and then metabolic overdrive it just to keep up with 3 flyrants and same thing applied, move up but don't take risks, more important to stay in the bubbles, then when you get close, strike. I would sometimes do it again and move the malenthrope in front to where the hive tyrants would charge so even after they killed something the malenthrope was there to protect them. Plus using pile in's etc to stay close. I had many a game where my hive tyrants were full on charging up the board but still had the malentrope buffs for like 4+ turns, but that was ages ago and the meta has changed so much they would have problems getting across the field which is why I figured with Jorg AND the maleceptor it might be enough (its still a big might)! I am going to see if I can take it against a brutal marine list soon and see how it goes. I think you are right tho, lose OOE and take a unit of warriors because they are super tanky with all those buffs and their new "I want to be an abberant strat". Thanks! |
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 18, 2019 6:26:59 GMT
"I want to be an Abberrant" is hilarious!
Just a note - Trapdoor Spider worked in 7th because it was played in a meta where people were playing close ranged deathballs that generally wanted to deal with things by getting close in the first place.
Today this is a bit different, with most things being OK to stay at range, and a few things going to be suiciding for numerical resource trades.
I tested out a Warrior-esque tank plan the night before and found it nto bad - I tanked an entire army of plasma to the face before the unit died to morale. It was a total of 18W T4 3++ 5+++, which costs 270 pts. Our Warrior squad should cost similar, with 27W instead of 18, and based on my gauge it should tank that whole army and stay standing. Male and Mala will make it a right nightmare to clear.
The question is what do we gain from holding that midground so fervently. Can we 1: score out of it and 2:stay long enough to max out score?
|
|
|
|
Post by mule on Dec 18, 2019 6:49:16 GMT
"I want to be an Abberrant" is hilarious! Just a note - Trapdoor Spider worked in 7th because it was played in a meta where people were playing close ranged deathballs that generally wanted to deal with things by getting close in the first place. Today this is a bit different, with most things being OK to stay at range, and a few things going to be suiciding for numerical resource trades. I tested out a Warrior-esque tank plan the night before and found it nto bad - I tanked an entire army of plasma to the face before the unit died to morale. It was a total of 18W T4 3++ 5+++, which costs 270 pts. Our Warrior squad should cost similar, with 27W instead of 18, and based on my gauge it should tank that whole army and stay standing. Male and Mala will make it a right nightmare to clear. The question is what do we gain from holding that midground so fervently. Can we 1: score out of it and 2:stay long enough to max out score? Warriors as engineers move them turn 1. If your opponent dumps shots into them great! the rest of our army is in good shape. From there leapfrog them. Alpha unit stands still doesnt shoot the Beta unit moves up and does shoot. Wanna kill both my jormy adapt warrior units who are getting -1s? And -1 to hit with a 3+ save? Have fun LOL. I guess locking them in combat forces me to attack, but it could be a way to bait shots into them. --- Issues about blobs is i can force CP. thunder fire cannon + double shoot statagem + tremor shells stratagem your maleceptor with the -1S and the swarm lord. Swarmy uses double move on himself and -1male uses strat to move again but no charge take mortals. Now youre spending cp and swarmy has to sling himself or he falls behind. Pair that with shooty options and if you advance anything i try and snipe it. I dont think anything in the army is killy enough. I like the idea though. |
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 18, 2019 7:27:00 GMT
Yea other than being shot at by lascannons and Plasma, or other ap-3 or better options, our New Warriors will tank a bomb. But Plasma is a lot less deadly when it only does 1 damage with 5+++, and lascannons arent too great into Warriors to begin with. I'm thinking that whether this would be better with TG though.
|
|
|
|
Post by afewveiws on Dec 18, 2019 7:28:45 GMT
Devourers are for chaff clearing, bring a cannon and claws so that you can actually threaten something at range and when you get there still threaten them in melee.
With 4 tyrant models a unit of tyrant guard would be worth it. Any damage that does make it through can just be shunted over.
I second the warrior inclusion. Not sure how all the points would work out but iy has potential.
Just leave the big guys short ranged (please do not swear) guns at home.
You could also benefit from some deepstriking disruption. You dont want to walk this up the board only to have the chaff bodies stop you from winning. Raveners bringing devgants can clear chaff still. So can many other things in our army. The main brick needs to be able to handle real threats so all the chaff clearing will need to be handled by more disposable units.
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcan01 on Dec 18, 2019 7:54:28 GMT
.... Battalion-Jormangander HQ 1 Hive tyrant-Walking 2 Dual Devourers Monstrous Rending Claws ... I'm suspecting it's a typo, but you can't have 2x Dual Devourers and Monstrous Rending Claws. 1x Dual Devourers and 1x Monstrous Rending Claws sounds about right. |
|
|
|
Post by mule on Dec 18, 2019 8:49:09 GMT
Yea other than being shot at by lascannons and Plasma, or other ap-3 or better options, our New Warriors will tank a bomb. But Plasma is a lot less deadly when it only does 1 damage with 5+++, and lascannons arent too great into Warriors to begin with. I'm thinking that whether this would be better with TG though. Tg = tyrant guard? Too expensive, yeah they're harder to kill but they dont have obsec, a unit of 6 has the minimum ripper tax you'd have to tag on just to fill out a battalion. Also theres 3 less models. If you take them i'd cut male to pay the 100 point extra tax. No threatening shooting platform where warriors can atleast be a threat in range. |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 18, 2019 10:27:33 GMT
Yea other than being shot at by lascannons and Plasma, or other ap-3 or better options, our New Warriors will tank a bomb. But Plasma is a lot less deadly when it only does 1 damage with 5+++, and lascannons arent too great into Warriors to begin with. I'm thinking that whether this would be better with TG though. Tg = tyrant guard? Too expensive, yeah they're harder to kill but they dont have obsec, a unit of 6 has the minimum ripper tax you'd have to tag on just to fill out a battalion. Also theres 3 less models. If you take them i'd cut male to pay the 100 point extra tax. No threatening shooting platform where warriors can atleast be a threat in range. Too expensive, not enough bodies, no shooting, not enough hth. It's not enough to just field a terminator unit, they actually have to do something. |
|
|
|
Post by purestrain on Dec 18, 2019 12:21:06 GMT
"I want to be an Abberrant" is hilarious! Just a note - Trapdoor Spider worked in 7th because it was played in a meta where people were playing close ranged deathballs that generally wanted to deal with things by getting close in the first place. Today this is a bit different, with most things being OK to stay at range, and a few things going to be suiciding for numerical resource trades. I tested out a Warrior-esque tank plan the night before and found it nto bad - I tanked an entire army of plasma to the face before the unit died to morale. It was a total of 18W T4 3++ 5+++, which costs 270 pts. Our Warrior squad should cost similar, with 27W instead of 18, and based on my gauge it should tank that whole army and stay standing. Male and Mala will make it a right nightmare to clear. The question is what do we gain from holding that midground so fervently. Can we 1: score out of it and 2:stay long enough to max out score? The real question is, how do you die to morale when you're immune to tests? |
|
I think something like this could surprise some people and would be fun to play as well. If something gets wounded and is falling behind you can use Metabolic overdrive so it can catch up, or heal it D3 with a strat.
