Let's Talk about Tyranid Bulgryn

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 20, 2019 11:07:27 GMT N.I.B. said:

Dec 20, 2019 10:25:03 GMT topaxygourouni said:

How come 12 deathspitters and 6 venom cannons with 3+ BS don't do much?

Including the Prime it's ~570pts, more than a quarter of your army. I guess compared to what other factions can get for that, it's not much offensive output.

If you include the prime then it's 13 deathspitters. I demand re-evaluation

Ya I get the point. But in there there's literally another hive guard unit, so we could not play the HG and save 258 pts out of the 570. Maybe maybe maybe?

[kazetanade]

Isn't that called putting the cart before the horse or something?

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 20, 2019 13:01:27 GMT kazetanade said:

Isn't that called putting the cart before the horse or something?

MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE? Just leave the (please do not swear) HG at home and take the new hotness that can also ObSec and beat (please do not swear) in hth with shiny swords.




*This post was made by the Tyranid warrior gang.

[mattblowers]

I want to hear something good about warriors. I just don't see them doing enough. If the boneswords did 2 damage each we would be on to something. As it is warriors can get bullied by Primaris. Not cool.

[kazetanade]

Lol I want to use them too. I have like 6 + a Prime that I prepped for magnets but never finished. I'd like to say 18 Warriors is competitive man.

If my memory serves, a Warrior unit that gets to shoot 2 turns, shoots and melees, or survives attention for 3 turns on an objective, basically is as trade efficient as a GS or Devilgant squad at points trading. Even if it does nothing, if it soaks as much damage as equiv in Gaunts and either screens or scores, they're positive (since they attract both anti-infantry and anti-elite). Bullet magnets can be valued outside the damage they do, too, but having a damage component makes the comparison a lot more favourable.

[mattblowers]

Dec 20, 2019 17:49:27 GMT kazetanade said:

Lol I want to use them too. I have like 6 + a Prime that I prepped for magnets but never finished. I'd like to say 18 Warriors is competitive man.

If my memory serves, a Warrior unit that gets to shoot 2 turns, shoots and melees, or survives attention for 3 turns on an objective, basically is as trade efficient as a GS or Devilgant squad at points trading. Even if it does nothing, if it soaks as much damage as equiv in Gaunts and either screens or scores, they're positive (since they attract both anti-infantry and anti-elite). Bullet magnets can be valued outside the damage they do, too, but having a damage component makes the comparison a lot more favourable.

I don't think they'l be able to hang like gaunts. They are tougher with a better save but focused fire kills them pretty quickly especially if you hit them with multiple damage weapons.

[kazetanade]

Get a unit on the table and try it out. With an Exo and HG hitting the table at the same time, I think they'll hang super long. Threat overload is a thing and they will burn to kill that Exo, after eating your not melee dependant betastrike.

I tested using new Shining Spears and was frankly impressed with the damage being ranked with a similar statline the Warriors are capable of. -1to hit, T4, W2 instead of W3, 3++ (matching our 3+ ignore AP) 5+++. Tanked a whole army before dying to morale.

[N.I.B.]

I tested 2x9 Jormungandr Warriors tonight. Not sold on two units. Ultramarines seized me and a Leviathan Dreadnought killed 2 Warriors through -1 to hit and -1S thanks to Tigurius buffs and rerolls on everything. They did moderate damage back in my turn, then lost another model turn 2. My turn 2 they charged the Leviathan just to keep it from shooting, before they were ganked and killed in cc. My other unit did better, durable output until the end of the game both in shooting and cc, Shadow in the Warp was good and synapse was good, ignore AP -1, -2, was crucial. But I wonder if another 6 Hive Guards would be better.
Had Kronos, 3 Exocrines and 6 Hive Guards also.

[mule]

Dec 20, 2019 18:57:55 GMT mattblowers said:

Dec 20, 2019 17:49:27 GMT kazetanade said:

Lol I want to use them too. I have like 6 + a Prime that I prepped for magnets but never finished. I'd like to say 18 Warriors is competitive man.

If my memory serves, a Warrior unit that gets to shoot 2 turns, shoots and melees, or survives attention for 3 turns on an objective, basically is as trade efficient as a GS or Devilgant squad at points trading. Even if it does nothing, if it soaks as much damage as equiv in Gaunts and either screens or scores, they're positive (since they attract both anti-infantry and anti-elite). Bullet magnets can be valued outside the damage they do, too, but having a damage component makes the comparison a lot more favourable.

I don't think they'l be able to hang like gaunts. They are tougher with a better save but focused fire kills them pretty quickly especially if you hit them with multiple damage weapons.

Jorm warriors are only good at one thing which us holding midfield, they will not kill midfield, but there should be more warriors with obsec on it than anything else. You plop them there and they hold and keep it.

Ive had a hard time balancing threat overload though. Dropping 2 exocrines as kronos means youre stuck as jormy kronos, and youre at 916 points. Not including hq tax or the other ripper tax.

I think we need fast moving units to throw off threat priority and the best contender for thst is genestealers and swarmy. Grab them sling them kill midfield pop distraction stratagem and then instead of consolidate move + advance into their castle/blob. Dont need to fight twice should be enough if we catalyst them and daisy chain them to midfield double moved maleceptor who is giving -S

But its all too expensive, so i compromised, instead of 40 genestealers i put 90 hormas, same strat but dont need to kill midfield just run up the board and use 6 biovores to zone out the melee stuff from the hormas.

Exo drops are strong but in play they didnt make their points back. But, if theyre keeping shots off my midfield warriors im pretty ok with that i think.

I just get stuck on secondaries. Recons pretty easy to beat, nid seems to have these daisy chain tendril themes going kn with aura buffs that is just iffy. (Tervigon replenish, venomthrope maly -1 auras, maleceptor -s) all of them require you to daisy chain back and we want to take the whole board so its quite limiting and problematic.

Only reason i think it works with the maleceptor is that maleceptor is actually quite durable and can sit midfield relitively easy and safely compared to like a tervigon.

[No One]

mattblowers said:

I don't think they'l be able to hang like gaunts. They are tougher with a better save but focused fire kills them pretty quickly especially if you hit them with multiple damage weapons.

I might do up a proper post on this later, but a full squad of warriors (deathspitters+VC) with ignore -1/-2 in Jorm beats out equal points in gaunts to basically everything bar Ap-3 or better, or D3+ (or D2 if you're not able to spend the CP for -1 dam) and is about the same as gaunts against no AP if the gaunts get Jorm bonus and T4 is no advantage. Obviously different with melee, but you still get the ignore -1/-2 there, so still relatively even unless, again, stuff like thunderhammers come say hello.

Similar trends with spinefist warriors without adapt.

Now, this doesn't mean warriors are better than gaunts, but they are more survivable if you build for it against basically everything bar heavy anti-tank guns. Less board presence with far fewer models, but they also get to shoot stuff and are decent in cc.

[N.I.B.]

Lost my Maleceptor in a whiffy yesterday, after being Null Zoned. But they aren't usually targeted in the early game.

[fuerchtegott]

Had a catalysed Kronos Warrior unit in cover all game, holding an objective and tanking a whole chaos army for 2,5 turns including a Daemon Prince with AP -2 talons. I am convinced.

TWG4life

[beltrajor]

If only Warriors (and raveners for that instance) got access to crushing claws,something like one for each 3. That would push them waaay forward IMHO

[devilrules]

I like the idea of giving the warriors lw & bs, adds a deterrent making the enemy think twice before charging them.

Do people think it is worth the extra points?

[mule]

I mean it's not really extra points you're giving up boneswords for the ability to swing back when you die. But i don't think it's worth it, you're spending 18 points to deal a bit of damage but giving up 9 extra attacks in the fight phase. If a unit of aggressors or cents can clear a whole unit of 9 warriors in melee then i'd say it's worth it or just not take them at all and keep them with scything talons and save the 36 points which pays for 1/2 your prime.