Jormungandr Genestealers with Adaptive Physiology

[bolzor]

Its an interesting prospect that we could now plop down two 20 blobs of genestealers who are sporting a 2+/5++.  Using the extended carapace biomorph, Jormungandr hive fleet trait, and the Dynamic Camouflage physiology to increase the cover bonus, they would be a tough front line for most armies to chew through (at a respectable cost of 80 pts).

Similarly, this opening gambit could also be achieved with a list like Kraken by leveraging the Prepared Positions stratagem.  Pricey at 2CP but it would make 2 dangerous targets have a less obvious answer in terms of target saturation.

Would units with these buffs stand up to the kind of punishment that hard hitting lists can lay down these days?  I'll admit that I haven't played in awhile so I don't know what kind of heat armies like the SM can bring.

[gigasnail]

You loose advance+charge which is the entire point of stealers. It's a trap.

[xtztxtxz]

The big risk is going to be anything with the ability to ignore cover, dropping your saves down to 4+. I'd be curious to know what's likely to have that other than Imperial Fists.

[gigasnail]

It's also only vs shooting, and then only if you aren't advancing or charging. You want stealers in melee and advancing and charging. These are not terminators.

[gigasnail]

There was talk when the codex dropped about ravener taxi jorm EC stealers. It might be a good idea to look at this again now with the new adaptations and lowered taxi cost, but I dunno. Stealers w/o advance and charge is iffy. A tooled up warrior blob is probably better suited to this role.

[laughinglictor89]

The ignore -1 & -2 AP is way better imo, in Jormungandr you will always get your 3+ Sv whereas mass -2 AP will put you to a 4+ Sv, theres a ton of mass -2 AP now with devastator doctrine I'll list a few.

Heavy bolters
Onslaught gattling cannons
Assault cannons
Auto cannons

Also dont forget bolt rifles in assault doctrine.

[gigasnail]

Just to be clear, it ignores AP1 and AP2 for attacks, it does not reduce attacks by AP2. If you get hit with AP3, you're still just going to have to fall back on the 5++.

Otherwise yeah there is a damn ton of AP1 and AP2 shooting and that's a good use for it.

[laughinglictor89]

I am aware of this i did say the "ignore -1 & -2 AP" i did not say reduce. -3 AP shots very rarely have the number of shots to trouble 20 genestealers in which case a 5++ will suffice.

[gigasnail]

Eh, maybe. There is plenty of plasma rolling around and by definition if it has enough volume to matter, a 5++ isnt going to cut it.

[laughinglictor89]

Plasma isn't that common really and is the only exception that I can think of and even with a 2+ Sv in cover plasma would still put you on that lightning fast reflex save.

[gigasnail]

Fair enough.

[topaxygourouni]

Soulreaper cannons. Heavy 4, str 5, ap-3, 1 damage.

Though you won't see them around much, except if the next PA gives rubric marines something great.

[kazetanade]

Eldar Star Cannons on triple CHE, for 4 shots S6 ap-3 dmg d3 each. Not high volume enough to worry Stealers I figure.

There's Ryza Katapron Destroyers with like 8d6 or 10d6 3dmg Plasma. Specialist gatekeeper gunline list or whatever it is.

Not really aware of any other ap-3 weapons with high volume. The ignore ap-1 and 2 is really a standout adaptation, and like people have mentioned it makes Warriors capable of making their points back because of how much more damage they can soak (Warriors are as cost efficient as Devilgants/Genestealers at doing damage if they can do both melee and shooting, or if they live 2.5 turns to do damage, approx. ) but it does start to make those 3dmg weapons like aforementioned starcannon and pulse lasers and Ryza plasma much better against us.

Going to Jorm EC Genestealers with the ignore ap trait, I think that's something playable. Genestealers can be played in 2 ways - countercharging area denial, or aggressive damage pressure. You only need Run and Charge for the 2nd one. But it locks you out of a lot of positional plays and although it works* theoretically, its a lot of points for an obj capper that will only threaten the enemy and cannot project any forward damage. But, much like gaunt carpets, it will be a pain in the ass to remove for most lists - as we all know marines are pretty tanky, no one really has the ability to candidly remove 20 marines that are strung out on objectives with 3+ 5++ 5+++. You'd have to be aware the unit is not going to be used for offensive reasons (unless someone presents themselves to you), it's purely defensive stats and stall tactics, and that's not easy strategy to play.

[laughinglictor89]

I'm currently working on some Warriors to try them out with that particular adaptive biology.

I feel deep striking them in with raveners is quite good, especially as they will last twice as long vs 3 damage guns with the new strategem taking -1 damage.

[N.I.B.]

The new way to look at Genestealers is, they have a 4" move (TFC). So if you want them, you pod them. Charge = no cover save from Jormungandr.