Calling on the hive brain: help me tailor a list

[seeg]

i've been playing a few games with a buddy that uses thousand sons and alpha legion. between the 2 of us we usually play fluffly lists full of terrible units and have a great time. 
lately though, i've been struggling pretty hard against what he's been fielding. his lists look like this the last few times we've played, give or take a few units to make 2000pts. 

ahriman
2x tzeentch DP with wings (one of them has the deepstrike crystal)
1 or 2 25-strong unit of tzaangors
rubrics to fill
1 unit of scarab occult

1x knight despoiler with 2x thermal cannon

1 or 2 lord discordants or a chaos chaplain
cultists to fill
csm with auto cannon


any insights on the match-up will be highly appreciated. i've used BA and nids against him pre-PA in varying lists but tend to be out-gunned and out-lasted.

[shappermon]

What models do you have available? Might be easier for people to help if you shared what list you're running as well.

[seeg]

I have every model available to me and some in multiples except genestealers and gargoyles. i do not have a single serviceable genestealer model 

i've only played 1 game with him where i was using tyranids.. mostly i was using blood angels.



my list went something like this



++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [118 PL, 15CP, 1,997pts] ++


Hive Fleet: Jormungandr


+ HQ +


Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 166pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology


Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]


Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 78pts]: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter



+ Troops +


Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]: 30x Hormagaunt


Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]: 30x Hormagaunt


Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm


Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm


Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm


Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 88pts]

. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter

. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter

. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon



Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 89pts]

. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter

. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter

. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Scything Talons, Venom Cannon



+ Elites +


Maleceptor [9 PL, 160pts]: Massive Scything Talons


Tyrant Guard [7 PL, 111pts]

. Tyrant Guard: Rending Claws, Scything Talons

. Tyrant Guard: Rending Claws, Scything Talons

. Tyrant Guard: Rending Claws, Scything Talons


Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope



+ Fast Attack +


Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine


Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine


Tyranid Shrikes [12 PL, 164pts]

. Tyranid Shrike: Adrenal Glands, Devourer, Scything Talons

. Tyranid Shrike: Adrenal Glands, Devourer, Scything Talons

. Tyranid Shrike: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter

. Tyranid Shrike: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter

. Tyranid Shrike: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter



+ Heavy Support +


Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail


Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail


Tyrannofex [11 PL, 184pts]: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo



++ Total: [118 PL, 15CP, 1,997pts] ++



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[topaxygourouni]

His list is most definitely not fluffy. Ahriman and his Boyz feature on every single high placing chaos list, discolords are the bee's knees and the knight is still a Titanic dude with big scary guns. His list is some plaguebearers away from being super competitive, a d tzaangors are not THAT worse.


...and then you play shrikes and mawlocs.

You need a stronger list. Dakkafexes will fare well against the tzaangors, HVC and OOE are good Vs the knight. Discolords are tough, but the new physiologies should do the job well against them.

[seeg]

Dec 8, 2019 15:08:31 GMT topaxygourouni said:

His list is most definitely not fluffy. Ahriman and his Boyz feature on every single high placing chaos list, discolords are the bee's knees and the knight is still a Titanic dude with big scary guns. His list is some plaguebearers away from being super competitive, a d tzaangors are not THAT worse.


...and then you play shrikes and mawlocs.

You need a stronger list. Dakkafexes will fare well against the tzaangors, HVC and OOE are good Vs the knight. Discolords are tough, but the new physiologies should do the job well against them.

he usually does field fluffy stuff.. which is why ive felt very manhandled the last few times he used this list against me. i've never really felt the need to write a strong or competitive list up until this point.

and funny u mention his list is definitely not fluffy. he insists that his list is soft cuz he brings 'tax' units like scarab occult and chaos spawn. And also cuz the knight he fields is not a 'competitive' variant.  he also told me that the alpha legion strat "scrambled coordinates" is not a big deal and not very strong, when i was using BA. for those that dont know, scrambled coords is a 1CP stratagem that forces the opponent to place a deepstriking unit more than 12" away from any alpha legion unit. you use this strat as the opponent declares a unit to deepstrike so it is able to surgically frak up your deepstrike chargers.

anyone reading this, what do you think? is this list fluffy, casual'ish, semi-competitive, or hard?

moving on to the suggestions, dakkafexes sound excellent. sporecysts, enhanced senses and 2x devourer with brain leech worm i assume? i'd probably still have to eat a charge cuz he will crystal or 1CP deepstrike the tzaangors.. but at least i can mow them down after
regarding the knight, im v hesistant to even try dealing with the knight... do you think its feasable to ignore it and play around it? or is it one of those things that i must deal ASAP. 

[kazetanade]

Knight tactics 101 - keep it from moving and kill everything else. You will out score him.

12A hit on 3+ wound on 3+ save on 4+ is bloody hilarious - he won't get anything done. You can lock one in with 2 Flyrants and a SL, and he will sweat all game.

The Tzaangors are a 1 hit wonder. Go to town after their charge.

The Discolords are really good against Imperium. They're not particularly good against xenos. Still tanky and reasonable output but it's not WTFOMGBBQ levels of damage that they put out vs Knights and Imperium at large.

Ahriman is a fixture of any competitive list though, yes. He's just a great caster.

Didn't read your list because its not formatted simply like your chaos breakdown. But a few things come to mind:

Kronos is a pain here. I once killed ahriman with a hidden Kronos WL that periled Ahriman to death. First cast Hex whatever Kronos fail, 2nd cast natural double 1s which proc Kronos and Perils together. Consistently, a single spore mine will make his key spell fail.

HG are an acceptable choice vs these Knights and Discolords. Esp Discolords.

TFexes are OK. You out range Thermal by double.

Having enough tools will be all you need to win this matchup. His list is only semi-competitive, it won't stand up to TACs piloted by a competent player.