Symbiotic Devastation

[shappermon]

Can you advance an exocrine, and then use the Symbiotic Devastation Stratagem to make it count as not moving? Or is it just move?

Looks like you can move and advance from the wording of the strat.

[topaxygourouni]

That's a good question. On paper it looks this way.

[No One]

I don't think so: you count as stationary, but advancing has nothing to do with how far you move. You can totally advance and not move.

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 3, 2019 14:38:55 GMT No One said:

I don't think so: you count as stationary, but advancing has nothing to do with how far you move. You can totally advance and not move.

Advancing is literally adding inches to your movement, that's what the rule does. How can you advance and not move? Plus the stratagem doesn't say "counts as being stationary", it says "counts as not having moved".

[No One]

You can say 'I advance'. You then roll a dice, add say 3" to your Move Characteristic for the phase, and then proceed to move less than your Move Characteristic i.e. 0".

You have now not moved at all, but have advanced. Like, not 100% on this or anything (I don't know if there's any FAQs for similar), but that's my take on it right now.

[shappermon]

What Topax said, plus: "Symbiotic Devastation – 1 CP: Use at the start of the Shooting phase. Pick an EXOCRINE. Until the end of the phase, it’s counted as not having moved." This was taken from the goonhammer article on the BoB release. Counting as not having moved surely includes both move and advance.

Edit: to add to this, the exocrine gets its bonuses if it didn't move, right?

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 3, 2019 15:07:16 GMT shappermon said:

What Topax said, plus: "Symbiotic Devastation – 1 CP: Use at the start of the Shooting phase. Pick an EXOCRINE. Until the end of the phase, it’s counted as not having moved." This was taken from the goonhammer article on the BoB release. Counting as not having moved surely includes both move and advance.

Edit: to add to this, the exocrine gets its bonuses if it didn't move, right?

Yessir.

[acehilator]

It doesn't work. You declare that a unit wants to use Advance, and then you roll the distance and move. Even if you move 0" or count as moving 0", you still declared an Advance.

It's the old discussion with the Kraken Acidfex. No luck sadly.

[nintura]

The Strat says moved. Not Moved. The difference is the letter. Move is an action, moved is whether it is in a different place than it is now. However, there is a difference between Move and Advance. If the strat said "it's counted as not having Moved" then it would differentiate between Move and Advanced.

I feel it's further backed up by the spirit of the strat. It's meant to allow you to get your Exo up the field and into position.

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 3, 2019 15:46:41 GMT nintura said:

The Strat says moved. Not Moved. The difference is the letter. Move is an action, moved is whether it is in a different place than it is now. However, there is a difference between Move and Advance. If the strat said "it's counted as not having Moved" then it would differentiate between Move and Advanced.

I feel it's further backed up by the spirit of the strat. It's meant to allow you to get your Exo up the field and into position.

I would not give the GW rules team to have the mental capacity to make this kind of restrictions.

Honestly on second thoughts I think it won't work. Not because of the wording, but because it would be literally the first time EVER that anything would be able to advance and shoot a heavy weapon, and I don't think such a huge honor would be reserved for Tyranids and not for Space Marines.

[shappermon]

I've talked it over in my ITC group and people seem to agree that it can advance and fire.

[acehilator]

No way. Advance and some kind of movement are not one thing, but two. Read the BRB!

[shappermon]

Dec 3, 2019 16:40:22 GMT acehilator said:

No way. Advance and some kind of movement are not one thing, but two. Read the BRB!

I have, I would suggest you probably do the same.

"Advancing: When you pick a unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare it will Advance. Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that movement phase. A unit that Advances can't shoot or charge later that turn."

As it was mentioned earlier by Nintura it's in the wording. It may be a mistake but rules as written it implies that it means any or a total "move" from the model rather than the "Move characteristic" that you suggest is different to the advance.

If advancing is different to moving, doesn't this provide a bunch of other rule problems? Also when comparing this strat to similar abilities such as the Scions of Guilliman, that ability specifically addresses advancing and falling back as a no go, but otherwise can shoot as if "stationary".

I'm looking for a solid answer that this doesn't work and so far haven't found anything that convincing. Despite this I still feel it will be FAQ'd to not include advancing similar to onslaught.

[acehilator]

"... declare it will Advance" is the key point. The actual movement is seperate from the declaration. So even if you move 0", you still declared an Advance.

[shappermon]

Dec 3, 2019 17:03:05 GMT acehilator said:

"... declare it will Advance" is the key point. The actual movement is seperate from the declaration. So even if you move 0", you still declared an Advance.

Ah I see your point now, thank you for explaining. I will bring this to my TO and his group of other TOs.