Blood of Baal ideas

[mule]

Dec 11, 2019 3:24:54 GMT conquest said:

dandc , A Mawloc is a must because of what it already provided for us before the big nid nerfs(distractionfex w/MWs), but now (too answer another of your questions) it provides a reliable threat management system. Paired with multiple DS units *cough* *GSC* *coug-cough* and ofc you better have 'A plan generations in the making'; your opponent now has more threats to worry about.
While it may seem mundane against a castling opponent being able to squeeze a mawloc even at the corner or edge of their line means they now have a dent in their wall. Throw him in front next to what little stealers you have left; maybe he'll kill that last aggressor standing that somehow killed 5 genestealers...

A Mawloc itself is now the defensive "as seen on TV" purse(handbag) in our arsenal to violently flail at someone until it tears itself apart.

purestrain you Jumpin' the liberator autostub a little, I dont think anyone has even tried lictor yet, and I probably will for the upcoming charity tournament at my FLGS.

Anything a mawloc does, a unit of 3 biovores does better, for longer (3 will shoot 6 times every time the mawloc has to come up) and more consistantly (you can literally pick any target you want without needing LOS and you don't need to fit a giant base in their army) without using up any CP.

They also punish isolated units by move blocking them thus allowing you to take more map and further isolate units.

[mule]

Dec 11, 2019 6:59:50 GMT kazetanade said:

That's pretty much a new list. Saw Acolytes can't replace my running Abberants.

Listen Kaze, If we just take a lot of units that trade 1 for 1, we eventually come out on top. #codex acolyte.

[kazetanade]

Dec 11, 2019 7:24:42 GMT mule said:

Dec 11, 2019 6:59:50 GMT kazetanade said:

That's pretty much a new list. Saw Acolytes can't replace my running Abberants.

Listen Kaze, If we just take a lot of units that trade 1 for 1, we eventually come out on top. #codex acolyte.

Dude. Its not about trading - Saws trade just fine. Its about the table balance and placement of buffs. My Abbys are actual placements on the ground, and have the appropriate buffs to make sure they make it across the field. That helps me put my shooting into the sky and other melee fixtures into the sky, with enough support to make them powerful. If you start Saws on the ground they get mauled, and becomes pointless.

Replacing my Abbys with Saws means I am playing a different strategy, hence a different list. Might as well go make a list that puts things together better. (which I will do, just not right now)

[No One]

Yeah, basically that. With reserves limits, and the amount of buffs acos need to work en mass, you don't have as much as your opponent to trade with. Which means you need to trade up (totally feasible: acolytes hit hard), across basically your entire army in 2 turns (very difficult to position). Mass trading isn't really feasible as your core strategy.

Now, securing kills to force pressure and reduce firepower, while dying on objectives? That's game winning if you can do it.

[mule]

Dec 11, 2019 8:28:38 GMT kazetanade said:

Dec 11, 2019 7:24:42 GMT mule said:

Listen Kaze, If we just take a lot of units that trade 1 for 1, we eventually come out on top. #codex acolyte.

Dude. Its not about trading - Saws trade just fine. Its about the table balance and placement of buffs. My Abbys are actual placements on the ground, and have the appropriate buffs to make sure they make it across the field. That helps me put my shooting into the sky and other melee fixtures into the sky, with enough support to make them powerful. If you start Saws on the ground they get mauled, and becomes pointless.

Replacing my Abbys with Saws means I am playing a different strategy, hence a different list. Might as well go make a list that puts things together better. (which I will do, just not right now)

I was mostly kidding I'm in the same pickle but i think im going to keep 1 unit of abby's and cut some other things. Not sure if it's worth it but the one unit did a lot of work for me the 5 games I played last weekend.

[mule]

Dec 11, 2019 8:35:20 GMT No One said:

Yeah, basically that. With reserves limits, and the amount of buffs acos need to work en mass, you don't have as much as your opponent to trade with. Which means you need to trade up (totally feasible: acolytes hit hard), across basically your entire army in 2 turns (very difficult to position). Mass trading isn't really feasible as your core strategy.

Now, securing kills to force pressure and reduce firepower, while dying on objectives? That's game winning if you can do it.

Thats how i won 4/5 games this weekend.

We have no GSC players in my city. > Pretty sure my local meta is going to adapt to include deepstrike denial, which means 200 less points of useful units so when i finally figure out how to play new nids on table top sim i'll be able to blind side everyone and hopefully take a 5-0 win away at the next local tourny in 2 months.

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 11, 2019 7:17:03 GMT mule said:

Dec 11, 2019 3:24:54 GMT conquest said:

dandc , A Mawloc is a must because of what it already provided for us before the big nid nerfs(distractionfex w/MWs), but now (too answer another of your questions) it provides a reliable threat management system. Paired with multiple DS units *cough* *GSC* *coug-cough* and ofc you better have 'A plan generations in the making'; your opponent now has more threats to worry about.
While it may seem mundane against a castling opponent being able to squeeze a mawloc even at the corner or edge of their line means they now have a dent in their wall. Throw him in front next to what little stealers you have left; maybe he'll kill that last aggressor standing that somehow killed 5 genestealers...

A Mawloc itself is now the defensive "as seen on TV" purse(handbag) in our arsenal to violently flail at someone until it tears itself apart.

purestrain you Jumpin' the liberator autostub a little, I dont think anyone has even tried lictor yet, and I probably will for the upcoming charity tournament at my FLGS.

Anything a mawloc does, a unit of 3 biovores does better, for longer (3 will shoot 6 times every time the mawloc has to come up) and more consistantly (you can literally pick any target you want without needing LOS and you don't need to fit a giant base in their army) without using up any CP.

They also punish isolated units by move blocking them thus allowing you to take more map and further isolate units.

I disagree
First of all, 3 biovores are 120 pts, a mawloc is 104.

Second, mawloc acts as distraction carnifex, biovores do not.

Biovores can shoot one unit , mawloc can hit 2+

Mawloc can hit backfield characters, biovores cannot.

[nintura]

Dec 11, 2019 17:52:00 GMT topaxygourouni said:

42" range can't hit backfield? Biovores also produce smite blockers, movement blockers, interceptors that keep things from moving unless they have enough movement to walk around A sporemine has a crazy amount of usefulness, and personally outside of a 6, you dont care what a biovore rolls because you want to miss on purpose.

[kazetanade]

Dec 11, 2019 18:12:51 GMT nintura said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:52:00 GMT topaxygourouni said:

Mawloc can hit backfield characters, biovores cannot.42" range can't hit backfield? Biovores also produce smite blockers, movement blockers, interceptors that keep things from moving unless they have enough movement to walk around A sportmine has a crazy amount of usefulness, and personally outside of a 6, you dont care what a biovore rolls because you want to miss on purpose.

Two different things here. Mule is talking about mortal wound gen from 3 Biovores matches Mawloc output because it gets to fire twice and in all turns rather than in alternative turns.

Biovores cant target backfield characters because of Character Protection. Mawlocs can because of positioning errors that people tend to make. 

The benefits of a Spore Mine cant be in the same discussion as that of Biovore MW output, since it's an either or situation. 

[hivefleetkerrigan]

If the opponent misplays, you could plop a mine closer to a character behind the unit you are targeting. They either have to move or shoot me a text he unit otherwise you'll pop the mine on the character the next turn. Definitely an odd case but a fun one.

[mule]

Dec 11, 2019 21:45:04 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

If the opponent misplays, you could plop a mine closer to a character behind the unit you are targeting. They either have to move or shoot me a text he unit otherwise you'll pop the mine on the character the next turn. Definitely an odd case but a fun one.

Theres a lot of spore mine shenanigans. Fitting a single sporemine is a lot easier than fitting a mawloc thats for sure. For a lot of units I have no issues charging the spores either, lots of heavy shooting with overwatch isnt scary. You still have a decent chance to get into melee. It just depends on if you think the overwatching unit can roll a 6 on its shooting. Some characters like smash captains dont have enough shots to pull spores off the board reliably with overwatch. So if you can just get some free character chip damage by setting the spore 6 inches away from the unit youre shooting at but 3 inches away from the one you want to blow up on its pretty reliable.

Honestly im super glad biovores are down in points they do a lot of work as far as threat generation, clumping, board control and just a few extra plink wounds later on.

[No One]

mule said:

Anything a mawloc does, a unit of 3 biovores does better, for longer (3 will shoot 6 times every time the mawloc has to come up) and more consistantly (you can literally pick any target you want without needing LOS and you don't need to fit a giant base in their army) without using up any CP.

Yes and no. Biovores do ~1.5 MW per turn for 3 (slightly more pts than a mawloc, but you also get value from misses). 4 turns is 6 MW. A mawloc with strat does...I think ~2-3 MW per unit. Show up once, hit 3 units, and you've done more than biovores, earlier when it matters more. Show up, hit 2 and you've done about the same. If they die, they've soaked fire for other units. Trade offs.

Theres a lot of spore mine shenanigans. Fitting a single sporemine is a lot easier than fitting a mawloc thats for sure. For a lot of units I have no issues charging the spores either, lots of heavy shooting with overwatch isnt scary. You still have a decent chance to get into melee. It just depends on if you think the overwatching unit can roll a 6 on its shooting. Some characters like smash captains dont have enough shots to pull spores off the board reliably with overwatch. So if you can just get some free character chip damage by setting the spore 6 inches away from the unit youre shooting at but 3 inches away from the one you want to blow up on its pretty reliable.

You do realise you can't charge after they're set up?

[laughinglictor89]

A Mawloc with the new strategem massively outperforms Biovores on MW output. Biovores are mainly for boxing in armies, zone control and setting up the deepest shadow strategem MW are a nice bonus. Mawlocs however can hit several units at once and with the new strategem are rather good, I used 2 last week and they were putting out 9+ MW every turn from BR2 onwards.

[zimko]

Mawlocs also have a hard counter in the form of Phobos armored marines and Alpha Legion cultists. Both are pretty popular.

[laughinglictor89]

Dec 14, 2019 20:43:58 GMT zimko said:

Mawlocs also have a hard counter in the form of Phobos armored marines and Alpha Legion cultists. Both are pretty popular.

Start them on the table then burrow them T1, failing that Hive Guard and Exocrines are quite good at killing primaris space marines and cultists.