Iron hand and new SM, what are some things to look out for

[No One]

To be fair, as long as self sacrifice gets nerfed to something more reasonable (which I'm 100% expecting that to be changed in some form) I don't think they'll be as bad, at least for the game as a whole: limited range and mobility on most of their good options. But for us? Melee into them sucks: about the only reason they wouldn't be is that they're not taking executioner/impulsor/Fly, but even then pistol aggressors with friendly overwatch and HI are nasty.

[kazetanade]

Thanks for bringing the thread back to the title, No One.

Coincidentally, I saw an RG list take top somewhere - I only understand the "I can DS more stuff than other Astartes" and the "I can T1 in your face" part of their supplement. I know they have +1 Hit and Wound vs Characters. What else do they have that I'm not seeing?

[No One]

Without knowing the list not sure what they're using, but I think most of the rest of it is Char mobility (advance and charge WLT, psychic Char Da Jump, Char RttS: possibly some form of fall back and charge?). There's also a -1 strat (can't have shot in your turn). Which I'm pretty sure is the one they FAQed to be usable multiple times, since it's end of turn and not phase. So that might be it: dump a bunch of stuff in your face T1, if it's not doing anything, pop for -2 in cover. Otherwise it's murdering your stuff, with mobile smash caps who're really good at killing knights.

[kazetanade]

So it's likely based around Engineers, Obj camping, and Hero-hammer - that's an interesting take on list, how long as it been since we've seen Hero Hammer now?

Are Knights even in the meta anymore? Even here it's been steadily changing to heavy gunlines and less Knights.

[gigasnail]

it never went away. there have been several varieties of smash captain floating around for awhile now. the white scars one can do 100 wounds in a round of combat or something stupid like that. the salamanders one can have an S12 thunder hammer (with no -1 to hit), AP4, and does 6 damage on a 6 to wound. then you can add the strat to give him another 3, so hitting for 9 damage on a 6. with rerolls to hit natively and rerolls to wound with, what, an LT around? that is only wounded on a 4+ and ignores AP1.

[No One]

kazetanade said:

Are Knights even in the meta anymore? Even here it's been steadily changing to heavy gunlines and less Knights.

Not as prevalent, but definitely still around. But if marines don't take knight counters, then the knights would become meta by dint of being anti-meta *shrug*. Like, some lists have knight killers just by default (e.g. IF/WS with cents, maybe salamanders with MW/+1 wound flamers, probably most IH lists). But, say, UM, or RG? I don't think they have good answers by default to the amount of durable and dangerous D2 shooting/combat that knights can output.

[dranzyl]

I was watching the FLG podcast yesterday and they were talking about some combo strat that would barbeque a knight with a single flamer or something ridiculus like that.

[No One]

Yeah, 2 CP max shots on aggressor (24 shots with double tap), 1 CP MW on 4+, Vulcan for flamer rerolls to do 18 MW. Add another 6 from +1 wound AP-1 flamers, and it's a dead knight. From a single model out of min 3.

Of course, this drops in effectiveness a lot if they move, and with max 8" range for this combo, it's actually not quite as crazy as it sounds. Still, drop Vulcan (11" threat range) or just only get half that (moving aggressor or invictor) and it's still very strong.

[gigasnail]

Aggressors shoot as if not moving so long as they dont advance.

[No One]

Eh? No? They get double tap if they don't move, and they can advance and shoot at no penalty. You're thinking of UM aggressors, who always count as stationary in tac doctrine. To the best of my knowledge, the only other rule that has SM count as if stationary is Bolter Discipline only.

[gigasnail]

This is what happens when you take a leave of absence.

[grave77digger]

I played 3 space marine armies today. Space Wolves, Triple stormtalon gunship iron hands, and ravenguard.

Iron hands nearly tabled me top of T3. Had to call the game. Zoanthropes were the only unit to save my butt. Our units literally get no armor saves against marines.

Atalan jackals used to be my most durable unit but they are unplayable against marines.

[kazetanade]

Oct 27, 2019 0:03:58 GMT No One said:

Eh? No? They get double tap if they don't move, and they can advance and shoot at no penalty. You're thinking of UM aggressors, who always count as stationary in tac doctrine. To the best of my knowledge, the only other rule that has SM count as if stationary is Bolter Discipline only.

Salamanders has a strategem that copies UM super doctrine for 1 unit, so their aggressors can indeed shoot as if standing still.

[gigasnail]

well, there you go. i thought maybe reece was just messing up rules again and because i certainly can't keep them straight myself, it's kind of hard to tell.

[dc0315]

So i played this vs IH last thursday. This game is definitely not fun anymore! Like, wth? Seriously? 

Anyways, he had 3 stormhawks, iron father, CM + LT 3 intercessor squads with stalkers, a leviathan dread & 2 executioners.

I played this.


++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Leviathan

+ HQ +

Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: The Horror, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted

Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Catalyst, The Norn Crown

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 72pts]: Boneswords, Spinefists

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 82pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 84pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 84pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 84pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: Power: Onslaught, 5x Zoanthrope

Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, 5x Zoanthrope

Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, 5x Zoanthrope

+ Fast Attack +

Meiotic Spores [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Meiotic Spore

Mucolid Spores [1 PL, 20pts]: Mucolid Spore

Mucolid Spores [1 PL, 20pts]: Mucolid Spore

Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine

Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore

Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]: 2x Biovore

Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]

Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]

Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail

++ Total: [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++

I tried to tailor with mass MWs. Exocrines died t1. He killed 4 zoanthropes t1 from the leviathan and orbital bombardment. Though still, zoanthropes do alot of work. They killed an executioner and 2 stormhawks with smites. Warriors died Biovores didnt do much. Mawloc did well giving wounds to the HQ star which i could never get to. Meiotic finished off the excutioner and spore using spore field killed off 4 out of 5 intercessors in a squad. Almost killed the CM from MWs from mawloc and a mucolid that dropped out of LOS and made the charge. Mawloc gave him 3 MWs and on a d3 i needed a 5+ though i rolled a 4. Kept playing after t2 to see what they can do as game was over. By end of t5 all i had left was the t prime, 2 rippers and 2 neuros. Warriors got shot at by the stormhawks and he killed 2 units of 3 and left anither with 2 left. When they shot they plinked off some wounds from the stormhawks and killed some intercessors. Better than deploying a 150+ termagants to get shot off the board t1. 

TL:DR Zoanthropes are a must take in this meta imho. Id replace the exocrines and biovores with just more spore mines, malanthrope and maybe hive guard due to not getting shot out of LOS unless he takes thunderfire cannons.

Read more: thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/57474/fighting-marines-tailor?page=7#ixzz63YPk3HHv