Iron hand and new SM, what are some things to look out for

[terminatoruk]

Oct 4, 2019 16:53:41 GMT nod007 said:

What was GW thinking at giving Iron hand strategem duty eternal that halves all damage for 1cp!!!! How can that only cost 1cp.
Also god damn how many bonuses IH get.
Can move and shoot without suffer penalty, extra -1ap on heavy type weapon, overwatch on 5+, 6+ Feel No Pain, double the number of Wounds they have when determining which degrading profile to use, reroll rolls of 1 when shooting heavy weapons.
What do tyranids get 6+++, or reroll rolls of ones if you did not move, all of our hive fleets gives around similar bonuses as only one in Iron hands.
Then if we start talking about combos it gets much much worse. You can shoot at dreadnoughts and they will have 5++ save and need to do at least 5 damage to do more then one. If you do 4 damage it will end in 1 damage ( halved from strat and minus one from ironstone relic)!!!!!!

So if we are fighting against 3 dreadnoughts within this two bubbles, how can we win or kill them??? Even if we kill their character (not easy job) then I just don't see how we can kill them?

I agree it seems pretty (please do not swear) and has created a huge rift between older codexes.

Regarding the latter point, that's probably 'solved' with focus-firing high volumes of 1 damage shots - massed fleshborers (with scorch bugs strat), devourers, deathspitters etc.. The invulnerable save and damage reduction has no effect against that.

My x4 Carnifexes with enchanced senses, 8 Deathspitters /w Slimer Maggots at S7 -1 AP D1 seem like a semi-decent fit for fire support dealing an average of 4 wounds.

Edit: Dare I say it - a serious consideration for "Use the fleshborer hive!!"

T8 Ironclad Dreds would pose more on an issue however...

[kazetanade]

Leviathan dreads are T8 also I think? Iron Hands dreadnought builds are going to be like Doritos 2.0, just as stat heavy but with better support rules.

On the plus side, they're extremely expensive build. If you chew through the infantry, you can hostage them for days.

The ideal is probably just that single super Dreadnought that dishes out tonnes of damage, maybe accompanying dreads with less than 9W if there are any. Throw wounds from the super D onto Intercessor bodyguards.

I think GSC is candidly in a reasonable position to handle this, but surprisingly from the Acolyte side rather than the Abberrant side?

[1b2a]

Oct 5, 2019 7:01:12 GMT sneggy said:

Play the mission, kill what you can (a primaris marine is just a two wound marine, its still genestealer fodder), mitigate what you cant kill (hide, wrap, use powers to put negatives to hit on dangerous units), its a tough match up but the sky isn't falling.

Idk if the sky is falling but gravity is like 3x now. Played in a local with a guy with 3 WS repulsors. He tabled every opponent (including me) except an ork player which he beat on objectives because he had 6 scout squads and nabbed them early. The ork player is definitely skilled too.granted I technically wasn't tabled, but everything besides my neurothrope died (last 3+ save kept him alive) for my T2 acolytes to come in. We went through 1.5 turns and talked out my turn 2. Lost by around 2 points. He was a slow fat (please do not swear). And the Ork player wanted to use a chess clock and he didnt. Dumb as hell. If GW really wants to make money like that I'll play their best armies but amd not giving them a cent if you catch my drift

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Played and tied a raven guard player at 2.5k yesterday. Game went to turn 3 and ended on time. I think I would have had the game if we went to turn 4. I was playing jorm nids/bladed cog.

Marines hit a bit harder than they used to with bolters rule being official and angels of death, but we can still play and win.

[terminatoruk]

Oct 7, 2019 13:49:46 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Played and tied a raven guard player at 2.5k yesterday. Game went to turn 3 and ended on time. I think I would have had the game if we went to turn 4. I was playing jorm nids/bladed cog.

Marines hit a bit harder than they used to with bolters rule being official and angels of death, but we can still play and win.

I'd be interested to know what you ran in your Jorm detachment if you have the details?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Oct 7, 2019 14:24:32 GMT terminatoruk said:

Oct 7, 2019 13:49:46 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Played and tied a raven guard player at 2.5k yesterday. Game went to turn 3 and ended on time. I think I would have had the game if we went to turn 4. I was playing jorm nids/bladed cog.

Marines hit a bit harder than they used to with bolters rule being official and angels of death, but we can still play and win.

I'd be interested to know what you ran in your Jorm detachment if you have the details?

Gladly!

Jorm:
2 neurothropes (one the horror and one psychic scream)
3x rippers
2 units of 3x carnifex
Each carnifex has enhanced senses, sporecysts, bone mace, heavy venom cannon, and twin linked deathspitters


For those interested in the cult,
Patriarch
Magnus + crouchling
Primus
Abominant (field commander + insidious mindworm)
Jackal alphus
Iconward

4x neophytes (2x mining lasers per squad)
2x 19 flamer acolytes + banner

10 pick and claw (and 2 stop sign) abberants
Biophagus + familiar
Clamvus

[terminatoruk]

6 fexes <3 <3 <3 love it! Same loadout as I run (minus the bone maces).

The flat 3 damage on the HVC combined is quite relible when combined with enchanced senses. The D3 shots makes it quite versatile too (quite efficient for targetting elite 3W infantry like Aggressors).

Not 100% sure on the cult stuff (as in not sure how it works) - assuming this is for screening / meelee?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Oct 8, 2019 9:36:08 GMT terminatoruk said:

6 fexes <3 <3 <3 love it! Same loadout as I run (minus the bone maces).

The flat 3 damage on the HVC combined is quite relible when combined with enchanced senses. The D3 shots makes it quite versatile too (quite efficient for targetting elite 3W infantry like Aggressors).

Not 100% sure on the cult stuff (as in not sure how it works) - assuming this is for screening / meelee?

Neophytes: shooting threat
I generally deploy the neophytes, iconward, magnus, patriarch, and alphus in a blob in one location. The neophytes have mining lasers with bladed cog so they can move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty. Iconward has a 6+ feel no pain aura making them more durable. The patriarch makes them fearless. The alphus can nominate a target for +1 to hit, so I can use that to take down big targets.

Acolytes/abberants: deepstrike threat
The acolytes will either act as melee or flamer bombs depending upon the situation. The primus, biophagus, clamvus, abberants, and abominant will all deploy together giving a more reliable charge. Additionally, the biophagus will be able to permanently buff the abberants. I'm looking for +1 attack there as that causes the number of attacks to explode.

[naviedzony]

So I played a 2.000 pts battle against new Iron Hands yesterday. Damn, theese guys hit like a brick in a shooting phase.  They tend to burn CP's really fast, as their best stuff is bound to stratagems, as I imagine, but a combo of 2x shooting with bolters and hitting on 4+ in overwatch combined with a buff from a character, that lets them re-roll all hits makes them almost as effective in overwatch, as in the normal shooting phase. That thing is certainly overpowered a lot. Next time I will remember to keep on board at least one model from Four-Armed-Emperor cult to negate one of theese stratagems, because if I don't, all that is left from my full Genestealers unit will be 6 guys, like yesterday. :/

I still menaged to squeeze only a minor victory for my opponent, as Hive Guards did the good job and Swarmlord with aberrants murdered most of the marines alone. But that being said, I used tweaked list and thought hard, while my opponent brought only a sub-optimal army in my opinion, and he certainly could have played that game better. IH are gonna be as hard for us to play against as Tau, or even harder.

[No One]

naviedzony said:

as I imagine, but a combo of 2x shooting with bolters and hitting on 4+ in overwatch

The rapid fire 2 bolters is shooting phase only: this is just a general comment, but if it's a strat, check if it says shooting attack, or shooting phase.

[garg]

So with all damage reduction for IH mortal wounds are good since they aren't effected.
IH will tend to group up for the relic.
They can do a second deny on a (that it's after deny attempt is too strong).

What does this call for?
Psychic Barrage 😁

[hiveoverall]

I am not sure the stats are that great for psychic barrage

[No One]

They also have a strat for 5+++, and another for 4+++ in psychic phase.

[hiveoverall]

This brings back memories of 7th ed IHs with the 2+ 3++ 4+++ biker chapter master

Just soooooooo much !

[kazetanade]

That is an actual thing right now too.