Feedback on fluffy Tervigon buff/narrative list

[ilovethenids]

Hello all!

It's been a long time since I posted here, due to being generally busy with grad school work and whatnot, but I am posting because I wanted to get some general thoughts on a narrative build I came up with for a Tervigon that could potentially be worth its points. Really I am just hoping for feedback on whether or not people think it seems fair, or any additional tweaks/changes I might want to make to ensure it is fun for both the Tyranid player and the opponent.

My goal is to finish painting the Space Marine list my 'nids will be going up against by the end of this year or early next year, and having just spent a large sum on having my 'nids commissioned only for the Space Marines to get a pretty substantial power boost, I am realizing I may need to use narrative tools to put my nids on a fair level with the Astartes, but that remains to be seen.
My goal with these Tervigon rules were to allow it to be the big momma it should be, ie the main BIG bug in the list, without basically guaranteeing it will be focused down and obliterated in the first turn. I honestly wish they would do something to allow for there to actually be true stand-out monsters in a list, but I digress.

The profile for the Tervigon Broodmother is on page 28 of this pdf: www.dropbox.com/s/gfycuzsp37m9tzc/The%20Fall%20of%20Rivicto.pdf?dl=0

In summary:
I gave the Tervigon +1WS, and 4A so that while it is not an absolute combat beast, it is not entirely a slouch either. I forget the actual vanilla Tervigon profile numbers so I can't say everything I changed, but I think the most important additions are the two special rules I gave it. The first is similar to the Fanatical Devotion rule for GSC, and basically allows the Tervigon to potentially allocate wounds to <Hive Fleet> termagant units within 6" (and the way it works means that no matter what the original damage would have been, it is simply converted to a mortal wound, making it especially useful for surviving things like lascannons), forcing the opponent to actually focus some fire on the Gant units if they want to do serious damage to the Tervigon. The other ability allows for friendly termagant units to perform a heroic intervention into any enemy unit that successfully charges a Broodmother. Again, I feel this fits very well with the idea of it being a sort of "mother" to the gants, as they will desperately try to protect it when it is in distress.

I figure since the Tervigon as it stands right now is grossly overcosted for what it does, such changes shouldn't really increase the cost, but I figured I'd see what other people think. Note that I am not necessarily trying to "fix" the Tervigon, as that is for GW to do (or not), but I am trying to make rules that more accurately represent what it is supposed to be in the lore, without being overpowered.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

[gigasnail]

those rules are not terrible. i like them.

[kazetanade]

Aye. Being able to give an additional buff to the Gaunts, or to respawn Gaunts with different weapon load outs will put it about right IMO.

[naviedzony]

Yeah, Tervigons really need a rework like that.

[ilovethenids]

Sept 26, 2019 2:20:05 GMT kazetanade said:

Aye. Being able to give an additional buff to the Gaunts, or to respawn Gaunts with different weapon load outs will put it about right IMO.

Glad y'all like it! One idea I've considered is giving the Tervigon a table like the Litanies of Battle table given to Chaplains in the latest Space Marine codex. I feel like the Tervigon's relationship to 'gants in general should have really been expanded upon in the rules, as there are a lot of opportunities to give them a unique feel as a unit that would make them both fun to play, and also interesting to fight against. I mean we all know that 'gants in general are a cheap unit that is generally not much of a threat aside from potentially tarpitting or securing objectives (obviously large numbers of devilgants can do a decent amount of damage, but again I am talking in general), with their main benefit being that they are very cheap.

I think that the Tervigon should be able to take these units that otherwise can usually be ignored by many tougher infantry without much issue (again, excluding tarpitting and obsec), and actually make them a significant threat. For example, can you imagine if a Tervigon could give +6" range to fleshborers for friendly <Hive Fleet> Termagants (or possibly more general, though i think giving this buff to devourers would be a bit much), or adding 1 to hit rolls (again, this might be a bit much given how large Termagant units can be, but given their limited range and AP it could potentially be okay). While some of this can be done with strategems, I think having native abilities would be more suited to the Tervigon and would allow for those strategems to be used on other units that don't have the same synergy.

One thing I've also considered is giving it some synergy with Hormagaunts, as I feel given the fact that they sort of compete with Genestealers for the spot of swift melee troop, (though GS are way more effective/expensive, we all know which one people tend to choose), and with Termagants for cheap bodies (+1 point for +2 movement, but lose all ranged options), they could use some help. While their pile-in movement does give them a bit of an edge, I feel like they are a bit lackluster, which is a shame because I love the fluff of a sea of leaping blades. In fact, my list for the mission I am working on has 80 Hormagaunts, so it's safe to say I am fond of them and want to make them work.

By the way, the lists for the narrative mission I am working on can be found on pages 45 and 46 of the pdf I linked in my initial post.

[calbanite]

As much as I'd like to have a Gaunt Shield ability, it doesn't make sense to me that a small Gaunt can block shots heading at a massive Tervigon.

Give her a 4++ and possibly a native 6+ FNP as well. Boosted WS+ and Attacks is nice.

How about making it so that if she casts a psychic power, it can effect ALL Gaunt units within so many inches of her?

[gigasnail]

It doesn't make sense that an anti-tank laser only hits one Infantry model either, but that's the way it works. Disposable gant strain organisms throwing themselves in the line of fire to protect more important units has been a thing in the fluff since its earliest inception.

[ilovethenids]

Sept 26, 2019 19:38:06 GMT gigasnail said:

It doesn't make sense that an anti-tank laser only hits one Infantry model either, but that's the way it works. Disposable gant strain organisms throwing themselves in the line of fire to protect more important units has been a thing in the fluff since its earliest inception.

The way I view the limited anti-infantry role of high-damage weapons like the lascannons is that it basically transfers all of the energy of the beam to a single target, this explaining how it does as much damage as it does, and for lightly armored infantry this basically means just reducing them to vapor/ash, rather than distributing the damage across multiple targets.

But back on the point of gaunt protection, the general idea behind it was to provide a way to negate what is in my opinion the biggest problem with big monster characters (especially for Tyranids, where high toughness and TEQ armor are effectively nonexistent) - they can be targeted from the getgo and brought down with focused fire WAY too easily. Even a 4+ invulnerable save would not negate the problem, as enough shots would still get through to do significant damage.

I look forward to playtesting this to see how it performs!

[gigasnail]

Yeah even a modern tank round will, um, go through a person.

It'll go through a tank, too, actually.

Much less a slightly larger than a dog sized termagant.

This game doesn't make sense, and its not supposed to.

[killercroc]

Sept 27, 2019 20:46:20 GMT gigasnail said:

This game doesn't make sense, and its not supposed to.

Wait... are you telling me the game with lasers and ships that drive through hell isn't realistic? What else have I been lied to about!!!

[yeturs]

I like the changes, but this tervigon is missing a few things.

Why cant it spawn gants any more?

Why doesn't it have synaptic backlash, or if that's part of the upgrade, surely it should have death throes.

The keywords say its a psyker, but it doesn't have any powers known or listed attempts to cast/deny. Is it a better psyker then the original terv?

Thanks for sharing it. I agree the tervigon needs some solid help, and the melee upgrades look like they will help.

[ilovethenids]

Sept 28, 2019 19:19:24 GMT yeturs said:

I like the changes, but this tervigon is missing a few things.

Why cant it spawn gants any more?

Why doesn't it have synaptic backlash, or if that's part of the upgrade, surely it should have death throes.

The keywords say its a psyker, but it doesn't have any powers known or listed attempts to cast/deny. Is it a better psyker then the original terv?

Thanks for sharing it. I agree the tervigon needs some solid help, and the melee upgrades look like they will help.

Part of the reason I didn't copy over all the rules is because I didn't want people to think I was trying to rip/pirate the original codex or anything - it is meant to have all the original rules of the Tervigon, but with the few changes I made. I will be making changes to the datasheet to put the original rules back there.

EDIT: Here is the updated pdf with the updated Tervigon rules, added the vanilla rules into the datasheet just to clarify that it does have all the original rules as well!
www.dropbox.com/s/gfycuzsp37m9tzc/The%20Fall%20of%20Rivicto.pdf?dl=0

[yeturs]

Looks awesome!

If you want to avoid giving away what the rules do (I dont blame you, idk the policies here on sharing rules) you could just include the titles of the rules like a lot of space marines do.

I'm going to try and use the tervigon next time I play nids.

[yeturs]

I played a 2k game. Not super competative
Kraken Custom tervigon with 2 squads of gants (10 devourer and 12 fleshborer) and a ripper squad backed by kronos malenthrope, biovores, harpy, and tyrannofex. 4 kraken carnifexes, old one eye, and a trygon prime rounded out the list.

I played against tau, so not the best place to try out its new melee abilities. It did engage a skyray and managed to drop it to 2 over 2 charges, and the bonus psionic power helped a lot (but again, tau cant interact)

We also increased the tervigons points a bit to 210.

All in all, were going to try it again against chaos or something more melee and psionic. It felt like a relevant but not overpowering threat though, and the look out sir effect saved it a fair bit of damage.

By the end of the game, I had a lot of gants left thanks to spawning, and his firepower couldn't take out the tervigon in time. He had focused it elsewhere, on the carnifexes charging his stormsurge.

I'm eager to try it again. Great rules!

[ilovethenids]

Oct 6, 2019 15:23:20 GMT yeturs said:

I played a 2k game. Not super competative
Kraken Custom tervigon with 2 squads of gants (10 devourer and 12 fleshborer) and a ripper squad backed by kronos malenthrope, biovores, harpy, and tyrannofex. 4 kraken carnifexes, old one eye, and a trygon prime rounded out the list.

I played against tau, so not the best place to try out its new melee abilities. It did engage a skyray and managed to drop it to 2 over 2 charges, and the bonus psionic power helped a lot (but again, tau cant interact)

We also increased the tervigons points a bit to 210.

All in all, were going to try it again against chaos or something more melee and psionic. It felt like a relevant but not overpowering threat though, and the look out sir effect saved it a fair bit of damage.

By the end of the game, I had a lot of gants left thanks to spawning, and his firepower couldn't take out the tervigon in time. He had focused it elsewhere, on the carnifexes charging his stormsurge.

I'm eager to try it again. Great rules!

Glad you liked it! I'm actually very honored someone decided to take the time to use custom rules I made, it helps keep me motivated to keep up working on them. Feel free to use any other rules I've made as well - I am always open to any and all feedback on how they feel in-game!

In fact, you've actually inspired me enough to consider making another thread where I upload all of the campaign volumes I've been working on (well, the ones that involve Tyranids at any rate), as each contains custom scenarios, narratives, and special rules for our bugs (mainly for the same reason why I made new Tervigon rules, but also just to add flavor for scenario purposes. What do y'all think? Should I do it?