Frustrations

[terminatoruk]

Sept 24, 2019 16:18:34 GMT xsquidz said:

Sept 24, 2019 15:37:52 GMT terminatoruk said:

My 2000 pt list resolves around the approximate numbers:

- 50 Termagants (Fleshborers)
- 3 Ripper Swarms
- 18 Genesteallers (Rending Claws + extended carapace)
- Broodlord (buffing the Genesteallers to hit on 2+)
- 12 Warriors (Deathspitters, Venom Cannons, Boneswords)
- Warrior Prime (to buff the above to hit on 3+)
- 4 Carnifexes with spore cysts, enchanced senses, deathspitters and heavy venom cannons (good ranged firepower hitting on 3+ and -1 to hit)
- 4 Zoanthropes (distraction / mortal wound spam)
- 2 Neurothropes (1 buffing the Zoanthropes, another supporting the genesteallers / broodlord)
- 1 Trygon

- Warriors / Prime - slowly advancing high quality firepower hitting on 3+. Don't wander too far from Carnifexes / Zoanthropes to protect them. Fire after Carnifexes to mop up high value targets (e.g. vehicles) with Venom Cannons. Charge anything looking to tie-up the Carnifexes or Zoanthropes - x4 Str 4, -2 AP attacks hitting on 2+ is good here
- Zoanthropes + other Neurothrope - mortal wound spam + 3++ save distration. These units aren't meant to do a lot on their own but are designed to spam mortal wounds if left on their own and frustrate opponents trying to shoot high-quality ranged attacks against them only to get saved on a 3++ (you WANT your opponent to waste time shooting these). Neurothrope helps to re-roll psycic tests for both itself and Zoanthropes and can be used to heal them too

In a nutshell here is my big issue with your list.  You have a little bit of everything, a bunch of small bodies, a bunch of bigger stuff and even some mid range stuff (warriors) so you are giving all their guns ideal targets.  Their big guns go after your big targets, their mid guns go for your mid stuff and their bolters etc kill the little gribblies.  When I am making a pure Nid list I either try to go pure swarm or monster mash.  That way 1/2 their guns right from the start are way less effective.  When I use GSC its all infantry so their big guns shots are wasted.  If you bring 200-300 bodies those lascannons and meltas start to seem like junk.  If you bring all flyrants, swarmlord, malenthrope and carnifexes all those bolters are wounding on 5's all of a sudden and are way less effective.

Get a malenthrope as well, that -1 to hit bubble that can't be targeted out is amazing.

Cheers for the tips!

I will admit the primary driver for the list was the hobby aspect rather than making it ultra-competitive but I do see where you are coming from.

I was considering a malenthrope but was somewhat put off as I heard that some places frown upon Forgeworld models?

[xsquidz]

Sept 25, 2019 7:37:25 GMT terminatoruk said:

Sept 24, 2019 16:18:34 GMT xsquidz said:

In a nutshell here is my big issue with your list.  You have a little bit of everything, a bunch of small bodies, a bunch of bigger stuff and even some mid range stuff (warriors) so you are giving all their guns ideal targets.  Their big guns go after your big targets, their mid guns go for your mid stuff and their bolters etc kill the little gribblies.  When I am making a pure Nid list I either try to go pure swarm or monster mash.  That way 1/2 their guns right from the start are way less effective.  When I use GSC its all infantry so their big guns shots are wasted.  If you bring 200-300 bodies those lascannons and meltas start to seem like junk.  If you bring all flyrants, swarmlord, malenthrope and carnifexes all those bolters are wounding on 5's all of a sudden and are way less effective.

Get a malenthrope as well, that -1 to hit bubble that can't be targeted out is amazing.

Cheers for the tips!

I will admit the primary driver for the list was the hobby aspect rather than making it ultra-competitive but I do see where you are coming from.

I was considering a malenthrope but was somewhat put off as I heard that some places frown upon Forgeworld models?

Yes, some tournaments won't allow it, but in regular games you should be fine unless the people you play with are jerks.    Plus they should know nids are in a bad spot right now and should be fine if you start to present them with a bigger challenge.

[hiveoverall]

regarding Katze's post, I really don't think Tau can deal as easily with Iron hands, nor can Knights. Especially knights, who will get wrecked by unkillable Executioners. But time will tell, like Bob M said

[thepatriarch]

I'm not frustrated but livid about the fact they took turn 1 deepstrike away from GSC, making an exception to the rule that units that are on the battlefield at the start can DS in turn 1 to do so, and allowing other armies to do it while the one army that should be able to do it can't anymore.

It's not so much a matter of power level as a matter of principle for me and I haven't bought anything from GW since that errata.

[gorsameth]

Sept 25, 2019 13:31:42 GMT thepatriarch said:

I'm not frustrated but livid about the fact they took turn 1 deepstrike away from GSC, making an exception to the rule that units that are on the battlefield at the start can DS in turn 1 to do so, and allowing other armies to do it while the one army that should be able to do it can't anymore.

It's not so much a matter of power level as a matter of principle for me and I haven't bought anything from GW since that errata.

GW's design team doesn't know how to balance actual stat lines so all the can do is throw special rules at the wall and hope it sticks.

I agree that there is completely no reason why Drop Pods should be the exception to t1 deepstrike other then 'Drop pods are bad and we don't know how to fix them'.

[1b2a]

Trygon, fexes are trash. I just gave you a bunch of points to improve your list. There really isn't a point to gants, unless it's to screen. Use rippers instead. Easier to hide and cheaper. I suggest bringing a meta shift by using ITC ruins, bringing 12+ hive guard, and have them come to you. If they want to sit and take the shelling, well then they should get better.

[kazetanade]

Sept 25, 2019 12:09:22 GMT hiveoverall said:

regarding Katze's post, I really don't think Tau can deal as easily with Iron hands, nor can Knights. Especially knights, who will get wrecked by unkillable Executioners. But time will tell, like Bob M said

If I'm remembering the Executioners right - All Hit, All Wound, All Fail, and Max Damage, on Shoot x2, to kill a Knight?

I mean, that's in Trygon realm...

Tau's a bit of a flip. The Iron Hands invul doesnt affect Tau at all since they dont have a wealth of -3 in their most common builds - a -2 will hit cap of invul already. That -1 damage relic is pretty dastardly for most anti-tank or anti-elite weapon, not just Tau, but with their 4+ rerollable 4+ rerollable, or their 4+ rerollable 3+ rerollable I think they're getting enough damage through to kill their target in general. Again, it comes down to Terrain and if its enough to not get shot by Tau. 

But I havent played vs IH, only as UM and against WS so far. IH seems pretty stat-heavy and is like a souped up v of the Hellforged Daemon Engine list.