What’s the fuss about? Space marine review for dummies

[acehilator]

garg It works due to the wording on Scions of Guilliman and the Successor Chapter rules. You only lose access to UM unique characters (obviously) and UM relics, but keep WL traits, stratagems and even the psychic discipline.

It's hard to give up Calgar, Tigurius and Chronos, but there are definitely nice builds possible.

[dandc]

So what's the thinking on impact to the meta/Nid and GSC builds? I'll be playing against Blood Angels at the weekend which I understand have benefitted from some changes but by no means all, then have a tournament mid next month. Expecting SM armies all over the shop by then. I'm thinking my swarmie-slung genestealers/aberrant drop one-two punch still seems a reasonable way to deal with them.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Aug 29, 2019 13:55:12 GMT dandc said:

So what's the thinking on impact to the meta/Nid and GSC builds? I'll be playing against Blood Angels at the weekend which I understand have benefitted from some changes but by no means all, then have a tournament mid next month. Expecting SM armies all over the shop by then. I'm thinking my swarmie-slung genestealers/aberrant drop one-two punch still seems a reasonable way to deal with them.

Let me know how that goes for you. Marines get +1 attack if they're charged, so I can see how they'll now be deadly in melee.

[acehilator]

Yeah 2CP to interrupt combat order will be annoying now vs SM. Every SM player with half a brain should be running double battalions now, so fueling that shouldn't be a problem.

[purestrain]

Don't forget that if they have calgar, they might have him and his guard as the 1cp formation, granting them a 3cp fight in the charge phase ability.

[originaltyranid]

Played ultra's last night. The bolter drill updates and new more shooty weapons , they cleaned 90 gaunts off the board in 2 turns. the horde is dead.

[kazetanade]

Ultra is a strong gunline. A few takeaways:

- UM on Tactical Doctrine counts as stationary for shooting even if they moved (but not if they advanced). This does mean that all Heavy weapons are viable now, and all Marines will always have RapidFire active starting T2 - so the only way you're keeping hordes alive is when the Marines are tied up or dead.

- Shock Attack + Intercessor Vets + Relic Banner is 5A per guy. mini marine vets get 4A per guy. Sternguard and Intercessors engage us in combat with 30-50A on 3+ rerollable (chapter master), and 3+/4+ to wound. Combat just got a lot more difficult to balance for us. Even better, they have a WLT that gives everyone 6" Heroic Intervention - guess what happeens when you try to wrap for safety?

- Intercessors output 40 shots (with strategem) and 40A - One unit will wipe a gaunt squad if it gets to shoot and charge. This is what our Tyranid Warriors look like when supercharged, basically. And if we had 30" range. and 2+ in cover.

- Sternguard get a -2/-3ap bolter with +1 to wound. You dont need me to tell you what this will do to vehicles, let alone hordes.

- Grav-amp is back baby, with reroll to hit from Chapter Master, Reroll to Wound and Reroll to Damage from strategem. Probably nothing gets more consistent for killing non-invuls, but with rr hit rr wound it will kill invuls too.

- Transhuman Physiology allows a unit of Sternguard/ Intercessors to tank a unit of Abberants, then hit back and maim them. Let that fact sink in, and imagine if you didnt get to hit first.

- Aggressors man... Aggressors. 220 for 108 shots, on the toughest infantry chassis in the game.

[acehilator]

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. For 2 CP you can also put two units in Tactical Doctrine T1:
1. Steady Advance (general SM): Infantry unit with Bolt weapons, combine with Rapid Fire on a 10man squad of Intercessors - 2 additional CP, but 40 shots S4 AP -2 @36" with rerolls from Chapter Master + Lieutnant
2. Squad Doctrines (UM specific): Infantry or Biker unit, use on Agressors or Hellblasters

You can add a third unit with the WL trait Master of Strategy (put one UM unit within 6" into Tactical Doctrine), but seems almost unneccesary. Contemptor Mortis Dreads with quad Las are beyond amazing, but it would probably be better to go with all infantry lists and use Hellblasters + Devastators for AT duty. The Squad Doctrines strat can be used to put the unit into a Doctrine of your choice, so you can use it to keep one unit in Devastator Doctrine T2+, Dev squad with 4x Lascannon or 4x Grav are the obvious choices.

[dc0315]

So basically theyve broken the game with some really outlandish rules? Basically what they did with them at the end of 7th when they could move terrain and stuff? Right, ill stick to kill team, xwing and asoiaf. Gw's gone crazy again. I miss the indexes, too many rules overlapping rules and things breaking everywhere! They have a white scar captain that in the right conditions can kill a warlord titan, yes, a warlord titan!

[originaltyranid]

The upped the marines damage out put to 11. to a no save hoard army its like ww 1 charging a machine gun nest.
A number of marines (primarus) have 3 wounds each now. Our bugs seem pitiful weak and squishy.

Tyranid warriors used to tear into a squad of marines and make a bloody mess,now we inconvenience them and die.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

What adaptations are nid players making to their lists based upon the new marines?

1) Are you taking different hive fleets?
2) Are you running more or less cult/brood brother allies?
3) Are you changing what units you're bringing?

[purestrain]

Sept 1, 2019 23:04:57 GMT dc0315 said:

So basically theyve broken the game with some really outlandish rules? Basically what they did with them at the end of 7th when they could move terrain and stuff? Right, ill stick to kill team, xwing and asoiaf. Gw's gone crazy again. I miss the indexes, too many rules overlapping rules and things breaking everywhere! They have a white scar captain that in the right conditions can kill a warlord titan, yes, a warlord titan!

So can a hiw hypermorph aberrant with some help, and he dosen't fly at the charge phase so he's kinda dumb too.

[N.I.B.]

Aggressors are bonkers.

[papo28]

Just played a 1000pt game against the new UM last night.and managed to table him my list was

HT with DS and rend
Neuro
15 genestealers
30 horms
18 terms with fb
Maleceptor
2 carnifex with scy tals tusks and bone mace.

The maleceptor was honestly the mvp with his 4+/5++ double moving him to psychic bomb the gunline was great. The psychological impact of him getting 2 inch from his line was even better they focused everything on him for a turn allowing my whole army get to his lines prettywell unscathed. I ended up tabling him turn 4

[originaltyranid]

Mortal wounds are the space marines worst enemy.