How do we deal with the New Knights?
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Post by mattblowers on Jun 22, 2018 13:40:45 GMT
mattblowers i havent actually managed to kill a Knight this edition; nor have i killed EDIT; I have actually killed a grand total of 1, back when i was playing gunline Nids and amanged a sneaky LOS move with a Rupture Fex and a double tapping HG. The other 2 Knights mauled the Fex though. Mortarion with Nids (i havent met it yet). We have double tapping HG as a staple. Maybe some smites from HTs if you ignore their points giveaway. Then what? Genestealers as a staple to kill T5 is already a touch-and-go, to kill T8 is a joke. OOE is a good option IMO tbh but he's not a staple. HVCs if you run Carnifex Stampede? That's legitimate. What else? As for Eldar trickery... you're not wrong there. But a Knight in cc is going to ignore most of that and tear Aeldar apart. Its not like they dont have melee reach. Sp if there is a lot of terrain, i think Knights are very hampered, while low terrain/blocks tables are like a field day. Hive guard and flyrants have been enough to bring down anything so far. Harpies are solid as well. If they have a centerpiece and you can take it down, the list often crumbles. If you can't bring it down you are probably going to lose anyway. I think the hardest challenge could be the Knight Gallant. It's cheap at 354. Has 5 attacks (6 on the charge if the right house). It hits on 2+ in CC. If it makes it, it will wreck your line. 18 S:8 AP -2 with D3 damage hitting on 2s is nasty. Not much it won't kill. Depending on traits and gear it could reroll 1s. Then it grabs a character (OOE, tyrant, etc) and crushes him to death with gauntlet. If you do kill it, pop the strategem to make it explode and everything within 2D6 takes D6 mortal wounds. It's a tough choice, it will be hard to bring down, but it's cheap enough to just throw forward with abandon. It a giant distraction carnifex without being a centerpiece to your list. |
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Post by hiveminded on Jun 22, 2018 13:47:41 GMT
Nearly every time I've faced a list with knights in 8E, I've killed one knight in turn 1. It's not at all hard to kill a single knight.
It becomes harder to kill them in later rounds after your army has attrited firepower.
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Post by acehilator on Jun 22, 2018 13:50:12 GMT
Knight FAQ just dropped, a Knight Lance now grants +6 CP if it contains three non-Armiger Knights. So base CP for a Knight list is now 14. Not too shabby.
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Post by hiveminded on Jun 22, 2018 13:54:43 GMT
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Post by mattblowers on Jun 22, 2018 14:27:47 GMT
Geedubs is on FIRE!! And stocks are up dramatically in the past year! You'd be a rich person had you invested a ton just before 8th dropped. Who'd a thunk that a company would do well when they actually responded to what their customers wanted? |
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Post by killercroc on Jun 22, 2018 14:36:10 GMT
I briefly talked about it on the first couple of pages, but in general they are our best shooting option. They do pale in comparison to our best melee options, which are stonecrusher carnifexes and old one eye (who, with some stratagems, can almost single handedly kill a knight in one round). Ahh ok, too many pages for me to go through them all. Laziness mixed with finally thinking of something to add to the conversation. OOE could be good, though he is pretty expensive and most Knight versions with a CC weapon will kill him right away. I'm guessing with claws and good rolling to get extra attack plus appetite for re-roll wounds will seriously hurt a knight, then depending on your opponent if he wiffs use the 3CP attack again strat or if he kills OOE use the death frenzy to attack all over again. It could work but I'm looking for something good against Knights not good against 1 Knight. Though it's easier to add OOE to my army than adding 10+ Shockguard. As for Stonecrushers the lack of +1 to hit on the charge does hurt, but 2 claws re-rolling hits/wounds could work for them. Good S and AP but the D6 damage does leave a lot of swing room for anticipated damage output. The other thing I was thinking is just swarms of Hormies, ignore the Knights and just go for objectives or the other things in the army. Sometimes ignoring the big thing is the best option. Even if it's the gatling/battlecannon version they'll on average kill 11 Hormies a turn shooting so them bringing a 450 point knight to kill 55 points of gribblies a turn is a trade I'd be ok with. |
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Post by mule on Jun 22, 2018 14:58:37 GMT
Ahh ok, too many pages for me to go through them all. Laziness mixed with finally thinking of something to add to the conversation. OOE could be good, though he is pretty expensive and most Knight versions with a CC weapon will kill him right away. I'm guessing with claws and good rolling to get extra attack plus appetite for re-roll wounds will seriously hurt a knight, then depending on your opponent if he wiffs use the 3CP attack again strat or if he kills OOE use the death frenzy to attack all over again. It could work but I'm looking for something good against Knights not good against 1 Knight. Though it's easier to add OOE to my army than adding 10+ Shockguard. As for Stonecrushers the lack of +1 to hit on the charge does hurt, but 2 claws re-rolling hits/wounds could work for them. Good S and AP but the D6 damage does leave a lot of swing room for anticipated damage output. The other thing I was thinking is just swarms of Hormies, ignore the Knights and just go for objectives or the other things in the army. Sometimes ignoring the big thing is the best option. Even if it's the gatling/battlecannon version they'll on average kill 11 Hormies a turn shooting so them bringing a 450 point knight to kill 55 points of gribblies a turn is a trade I'd be ok with. Assuming OOE lives through 1 turn of attacks, if they're gauntlet-ed they can just spend 1 CP and try and crush him, OOE is 7S model, so worst case for them they're rolling at a +1 vs you, and it just continues until they crush him. If you're not taking OOE and stoncrushers in your normal lists there is no reason to just run him for the sake of running him this time. Multiple Flyrants with RC + smites with SMA on your hivegaurd should be enough to take down a knight in one or two turns. |
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Post by silentrob on Jun 22, 2018 15:07:26 GMT
Alright I'm giving away my secret weapon, so here it is.
Hive Fleet Kraken
Mycetic Spores
Metabolic Boost
Results in 3inch move + 3D6 advanced (1D6 highest) x 2 = average 16 - 18inch move
Note: They can be deployed up to 12inches away from the enemy after the deployment phase but before the first round.
Note: If within 3inches in the charge phase they pop giving you a threat are of 19 - 21inches. A unit of 9 should on average cripple or destroy a knight each.
Just ensure you deploy them in cover and 18inches preferably away to avoid being shot.
If you have another unit then I'd use the Swarmlord & Kraken stratagaem to run him within range to double move the spores for another crippled knight. Then boost Old One Eye in the 2nd turn for another crippled knight. Then use DakkaFexs with HVCs to finish off the knights.
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Post by purestrain on Jun 22, 2018 15:35:26 GMT
Alright I'm giving away my secret weapon, so here it is. Hive Fleet Kraken Mycetic Spores Metabolic Boost Results in 3inch move + 3D6 advanced (1D6 highest) x 2 = average 16 - 18inch move Note: They can be deployed up to 12inches away from the enemy after the deployment phase but before the first round. Note: If within 3inches in the charge phase they pop giving you a threat are of 19 - 21inches. A unit of 9 should on average cripple or destroy a knight each. Just ensure you deploy them in cover and 18inches preferably away to avoid being shot. If you have another unit then I'd use the Swarmlord & Kraken stratagaem to run him within range to double move the spores for another crippled knight. Then boost Old One Eye in the 2nd turn for another crippled knight. Then use DakkaFexs with HVCs to finish off the knights. I do this to my friends with 9 man spore packs, double move can typically nab me a forward dread or a nice chunk of screen 😎 |
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Post by zimko on Jun 22, 2018 15:41:07 GMT
Alright I'm giving away my secret weapon, so here it is. Hive Fleet Kraken Mycetic Spores Metabolic Boost Results in 3inch move + 3D6 advanced (1D6 highest) x 2 = average 16 - 18inch move Note: They can be deployed up to 12inches away from the enemy after the deployment phase but before the first round. Note: If within 3inches in the charge phase they pop giving you a threat are of 19 - 21inches. A unit of 9 should on average cripple or destroy a knight each. Just ensure you deploy them in cover and 18inches preferably away to avoid being shot. If you have another unit then I'd use the Swarmlord & Kraken stratagaem to run him within range to double move the spores for another crippled knight. Then boost Old One Eye in the 2nd turn for another crippled knight. Then use DakkaFexs with HVCs to finish off the knights. It's a big gamble hoping that you'll have first turn against an army that will almost certainly have +1 on their roll to go first. You're gambling 162 points. And if it's vanguard, corner or hammer/anvil deployment then they can deploy far enough back behind a screen that you won't even be able to alpha even if you do go first. |
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Post by purestrain on Jun 22, 2018 15:59:46 GMT
Alright I'm giving away my secret weapon, so here it is. Hive Fleet Kraken Mycetic Spores Metabolic Boost Results in 3inch move + 3D6 advanced (1D6 highest) x 2 = average 16 - 18inch move Note: They can be deployed up to 12inches away from the enemy after the deployment phase but before the first round. Note: If within 3inches in the charge phase they pop giving you a threat are of 19 - 21inches. A unit of 9 should on average cripple or destroy a knight each. Just ensure you deploy them in cover and 18inches preferably away to avoid being shot. If you have another unit then I'd use the Swarmlord & Kraken stratagaem to run him within range to double move the spores for another crippled knight. Then boost Old One Eye in the 2nd turn for another crippled knight. Then use DakkaFexs with HVCs to finish off the knights. It's a big gamble hoping that you'll have first turn against an army that will almost certainly have +1 on their roll to go first. You're gambling 162 points. And if it's vanguard, corner or hammer/anvil deployment then they can deploy far enough back behind a screen that you won't even be able to alpha even if you do go first. They have <FLY> |
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Post by zimko on Jun 22, 2018 16:42:19 GMT
It's a big gamble hoping that you'll have first turn against an army that will almost certainly have +1 on their roll to go first. You're gambling 162 points. And if it's vanguard, corner or hammer/anvil deployment then they can deploy far enough back behind a screen that you won't even be able to alpha even if you do go first. They have <FLY> That's not the issue. Distance is the issue. You have to deploy 12" from the infantry screen. The Knights can deploy 12" behind that. So basically it's a 162 point one-trick-pony that will only work if you're going first and if you get 2 out of 6 possible deployments or if your opponent doesn't have a screen or know how to use it AND doesn't know what meiotic spores do. That's a lot of ifs. |
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Post by mule on Jun 22, 2018 17:01:26 GMT
That's not the issue. Distance is the issue. You have to deploy 12" from the infantry screen. The Knights can deploy 12" behind that. So basically it's a 162 point one-trick-pony that will only work if you're going first and if you get 2 out of 6 possible deployments or if your opponent doesn't have a screen or know how to use it AND doesn't know what meiotic spores do. That's a lot of ifs. Not to mention that I believe Knights have a way to shrug off mortal wounds iirc. |
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Post by acehilator on Jun 22, 2018 18:05:33 GMT
mule: Yeah, 5+ to ignore MW, 1 CP, duration one phase. Underwhelming to protect against 2-3 Smites, but will save you some damage when spores come flying in I guess.
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Post by mynameisjeff on Jun 22, 2018 18:52:19 GMT
Geedubs is on FIRE!! And stocks are up dramatically in the past year! You'd be a rich person had you invested a ton just before 8th dropped. Who'd a thunk that a company would do well when they actually responded to what their customers wanted? Actual lol’d at that 😂😂😂 |
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