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Post by xenomorph85 on Mar 5, 2018 13:52:21 GMT
This is how I read the rules, my experience in programming and playing games like Magic I tend to see series of sequences easier than most.
Some points to remember:
If two things happen at the same time the active player can choose in which order these things happen. "Same time" is different from "immediately after".
Units in a trygon tunnel are deployed at them same time from reserves, they essentially deploy as one. Immediatly after the stratagem can be used to target either of them.
Swarmlord deploys in Tyrannocyte works differently, Tyrannocyte is first deployed, we are now in the immediatly after reserves has been put on the board "phase", this causes 2 triggers, the shoot at reserves strat and the forced disembarkation. In this time frame, the opposing player can only target the Tyrannocyte. Me as the tyranid player then decides to disembark the Swarmlord first as is my right as the active player, the opposing player then rolls dice at the t-cyte. In no situation can he wait until the swamlord has disembarked because, it's not immediatly after it appeared on the board, that happend while it was in the T-cyte. The drop pod works in the same way.
So in short:
Triggering Action : T-cyte with Swarmlord placed on board from reserves.
Immediatly after: Disembark and "Forewarned" on only available target T-cyte
Same Time sequencing: Active player decides to disembark Swarmlord, Reactive player shoots at T-cyte.
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Post by gigasnail on Mar 5, 2018 16:09:08 GMT
This is not Mtg. Gw's rules aren't that carefully laid out.
You are all overthinking this.
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Post by xenomorph85 on Mar 5, 2018 18:45:22 GMT
This is not Mtg. Gw's rules aren't that carefully laid out. You are all overthinking this. Honestly the rules are quite clear on this, I don't know what you are not seeing. This is not a houserule , it's how it's played in the most competative enviroments. A houserule would be to ignore words as "after" and "at the same time" which makes no sense to me.
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Post by gigasnail on Mar 5, 2018 19:19:19 GMT
Whatever floats your boat. Have a nice time trying to argue with someone that these units aren't arriving as reinforcements.
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Post by xenomorph85 on Mar 5, 2018 21:24:38 GMT
Whatever floats your boat. Have a nice time trying to argue with someone that these units aren't arriving as reinforcements. Well they are.. it's just the the transport rule prohibits them from being shot at just like any other ability you may want to target embarked models with. Transports basically do what they are supposed to, it protects it's inhabitants upon entry. No opponent Iv'e played in tournaments have disputed that the wording is clear here.
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Post by gigasnail on Mar 5, 2018 22:14:47 GMT
I'd agree with you the wording is clear. Just that it works completely differently.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 6, 2018 1:17:48 GMT
This is definitely an odd one. Our Trygon and Tyrannocyte just got a stealth buff if this is the case. Although I don't see the Trygon being something they disembark from.
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Post by No One on Mar 6, 2018 1:38:02 GMT
Trygon is different: they are both set up straight from reserves at the same time, thus both are eligible targets.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 6, 2018 1:40:20 GMT
Ahh that makes sense, of course the Tyranid version is strictly worse. Leftovers from 7th hate maybe?
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Post by No One on Mar 6, 2018 2:02:24 GMT
...No? No it's not? It's not a transport, it's DS with friends. So, you don't need to worry about, say, transport limits ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) .
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 6, 2018 2:21:44 GMT
You're going to need to make use of that no capacity exclusively with Jormungandr. The first 20 is going to be removed or severely crippled from any Auspex type ability, followed by a 5+ overwatch (most armies that shoot have this now, the rest in time. Nevermind stuff like Tanglefoot etc.)
Poor Hivestrains are going to be backburners after a few more shooty armies come out. Ridiculous amount of firepower (usually with rerolls) already makes them overpriced Gants.
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Post by tomb on Mar 6, 2018 6:59:30 GMT
So day 1, i played 3 games: Robots, Eldar and Eldar: Game 1. The list i played had the Rowboat, Cawl and 3 x 4 Robot units, god those guys are tough and put out a tonne of fire. I obviously had far more drops than him and I have 6 reserve drops and 3 biovores before i have to deploy anything I cared about. He deployed centrally with 3 robot units around his characters, and I lined up to joust him. Despite him being +1, i won the first turn roll of. I probably don't have to say much more. Two units of stealers in his face turn 1, plus 2 flyrants who made their charges. I failed the trygon charge (this will be a pattern) but got him in there on turn 2 to help smack down robots. The hardest choice was not knowing how much damage my stealers were going to cop on overwatch, I managed to survive the overwatch (6 shots each!) and overran into Rowboat, killed him with stealers and when he didn't get back up that was game. The main point of this game was that his robots can't withdraw from combat and shoot, so even if i just tagged them with my flyrants i was gonna be safe. I had him tabled entirely by turn 2. I'm not gonna lie, it felt good, game 1 under my belt I knew i was now likely to face a tougher list. For the record my objectives were recon, behind enemy lines and gang-busters (his robots gave up 4 points for the unit i chose). Game 2. Played Eldar player 1, this was a tougher match up, corner deployment which made behind enemy lines much easier, but i had to go old school for my 3rd objective. He had 3 of those harlequin transports that look a little like vypers and 3 units inside full of fusion guns. He had Yvrain, Eldrad and deepstriking wraithguard which worried me a little, in addition to some chaff and a unit of 8 scatter bikes which parked on top of a 3 level building. He spent most of the game castled behind that building casting good powers on the scat bikes, but this gave me the board to score the primary objectives and push my genestealers and tyrant guard up with malanthrope keeping them from being murdered by the scat bikes. I surprised him by first deepstriking my flyrant and using the swarmlord to move him 16" over the back of his building, then smacking down Eldrad in a turn. He dropped in his wraithguard and thank god, failed to cast soulburst on them. This meant they didn't have enough shots to take out the first flyrant, and the second one was ruining the lives of all the harlequins. Turn 2 i deepstriked my genestealers in and swarmy slung them round to murder all his chaff and engage the wraithguard, pinning the unit so it couldn't withdraw. That was pretty much me in control, once i got a charge off with the flyrant on the scatter bikes we pretty much called it and rushed through to the end. Lesson: Flyrant assassin is very tough to stop! I used this tactic alot through the tournament, its hard to counter and not many people even anticipate it. My opponents seem very happy to let me have the board with swarmy and tyrant guard, being more worried by genestealers and flyrants in their face. The list is working! Game 3. Eldar AGAIN! This list was all serpent spam, 5 wave serpents with some guardians and dire avengers in them. The usual shining spears and autarch gig, plus some deep striking banshees and a warlock to cast quicken on them. I got turn 1, so i raced across the board to start smacking on serpents with two units of stealers and a flyrant. I managed to get a flyrant into the shining spears and fought twice with him to take them down as I knew how badly they could outrun me. Those damn serpents took alot of punishment, and on his first turn they did all of the serpent shield shots on my flyrants, d3 mortal wounds ouch! 1 flyrant survived, and by this time i had got swarmy up the board to help out. I think by the end of the game i had taken 4 of them off the board with genestealers and swarmy. My opponent did politely remind me to charge the genestealers first into a serpent, rather than swarmy as i was about to. I'm like, 'not too much change of those bright lances getting me, but sure i'll play it safe'. 3 Genestealers died to massive overkill copping lascannon overwatch to the face! lol. Honourable mention in this game goes to my tyrant guard, who engaged the rangers and illic in the middle of the board, taking them out to claim important objectives. Also my termagaunts who had to deal with the howling banshees and did remarkably well. They lasted 2 turns and held them off for the game. I had all 4 objectives (in the diamond shape) for most of the game, but disappointingly that's only worth 1 point each. This is my problem with ITC, those primaries should be worth more. I HAD THE WHOLE BOARD CONTROLLED! So end of day 1, 3/3 riding high and way above my station. I was fully expecting to get shot down tomorrow but i enjoyed it. Great start to the week. More to come tomorrow, having just learned my matchup was another Kraken nids list ... and his has more flyrants and stealers than me!! Nice work, congrats and thanks for the write up. How was day two, or did I miss those reports? cheers!
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Post by dc0315 on Mar 6, 2018 7:49:12 GMT
So day 1, i played 3 games: Robots, Eldar and Eldar: Game 1. The list i played had the Rowboat, Cawl and 3 x 4 Robot units, god those guys are tough and put out a tonne of fire. I obviously had far more drops than him and I have 6 reserve drops and 3 biovores before i have to deploy anything I cared about. He deployed centrally with 3 robot units around his characters, and I lined up to joust him. Despite him being +1, i won the first turn roll of. I probably don't have to say much more. Two units of stealers in his face turn 1, plus 2 flyrants who made their charges. I failed the trygon charge (this will be a pattern) but got him in there on turn 2 to help smack down robots. The hardest choice was not knowing how much damage my stealers were going to cop on overwatch, I managed to survive the overwatch (6 shots each!) and overran into Rowboat, killed him with stealers and when he didn't get back up that was game. The main point of this game was that his robots can't withdraw from combat and shoot, so even if i just tagged them with my flyrants i was gonna be safe. I had him tabled entirely by turn 2. I'm not gonna lie, it felt good, game 1 under my belt I knew i was now likely to face a tougher list. For the record my objectives were recon, behind enemy lines and gang-busters (his robots gave up 4 points for the unit i chose). Game 2. Played Eldar player 1, this was a tougher match up, corner deployment which made behind enemy lines much easier, but i had to go old school for my 3rd objective. He had 3 of those harlequin transports that look a little like vypers and 3 units inside full of fusion guns. He had Yvrain, Eldrad and deepstriking wraithguard which worried me a little, in addition to some chaff and a unit of 8 scatter bikes which parked on top of a 3 level building. He spent most of the game castled behind that building casting good powers on the scat bikes, but this gave me the board to score the primary objectives and push my genestealers and tyrant guard up with malanthrope keeping them from being murdered by the scat bikes. I surprised him by first deepstriking my flyrant and using the swarmlord to move him 16" over the back of his building, then smacking down Eldrad in a turn. He dropped in his wraithguard and thank god, failed to cast soulburst on them. This meant they didn't have enough shots to take out the first flyrant, and the second one was ruining the lives of all the harlequins. Turn 2 i deepstriked my genestealers in and swarmy slung them round to murder all his chaff and engage the wraithguard, pinning the unit so it couldn't withdraw. That was pretty much me in control, once i got a charge off with the flyrant on the scatter bikes we pretty much called it and rushed through to the end. Lesson: Flyrant assassin is very tough to stop! I used this tactic alot through the tournament, its hard to counter and not many people even anticipate it. My opponents seem very happy to let me have the board with swarmy and tyrant guard, being more worried by genestealers and flyrants in their face. The list is working! Game 3. Eldar AGAIN! This list was all serpent spam, 5 wave serpents with some guardians and dire avengers in them. The usual shining spears and autarch gig, plus some deep striking banshees and a warlock to cast quicken on them. I got turn 1, so i raced across the board to start smacking on serpents with two units of stealers and a flyrant. I managed to get a flyrant into the shining spears and fought twice with him to take them down as I knew how badly they could outrun me. Those damn serpents took alot of punishment, and on his first turn they did all of the serpent shield shots on my flyrants, d3 mortal wounds ouch! 1 flyrant survived, and by this time i had got swarmy up the board to help out. I think by the end of the game i had taken 4 of them off the board with genestealers and swarmy. My opponent did politely remind me to charge the genestealers first into a serpent, rather than swarmy as i was about to. I'm like, 'not too much change of those bright lances getting me, but sure i'll play it safe'. 3 Genestealers died to massive overkill copping lascannon overwatch to the face! lol. Honourable mention in this game goes to my tyrant guard, who engaged the rangers and illic in the middle of the board, taking them out to claim important objectives. Also my termagaunts who had to deal with the howling banshees and did remarkably well. They lasted 2 turns and held them off for the game. I had all 4 objectives (in the diamond shape) for most of the game, but disappointingly that's only worth 1 point each. This is my problem with ITC, those primaries should be worth more. I HAD THE WHOLE BOARD CONTROLLED! So end of day 1, 3/3 riding high and way above my station. I was fully expecting to get shot down tomorrow but i enjoyed it. Great start to the week. More to come tomorrow, having just learned my matchup was another Kraken nids list ... and his has more flyrants and stealers than me!! Did the adeptus mechanicus guy use his 1cp strat that allows him to shoot with a unit of his in every PHASE? Meaning he could have shot a unit of robots for example in your movement, psychic, shooting and charge phase every time for just 1cp and thats just in your turn 1 before u even get a charge off....
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Post by purestrain on Mar 6, 2018 11:25:17 GMT
🍿🍿🍿🍿
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Post by bumbleb1492 on Mar 10, 2018 18:35:52 GMT
So yesterday I played a few games with this list against raven guard and both of them ended with my opponent being tabled by turn 3. The hitting power of this list is insane. I made a few edits to the flyrant weapons but the core remained the same. I had my doubts about how well I'd do but my opponent couldn't handle the amount of stuff that came in turn 1.
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