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Post by zimko on Apr 7, 2021 14:20:40 GMT
Dimas without Swarmlord feels really bad unless you're playing with terrain that can block LOS to the Dimas. For them to survive turn 1, I usually have to deploy the Dimas as far back in my deployment zone as possible to outrange 24" and 36" guns. Then use Swarmlord PLUS Kraken OA to get one of the Dimas into something juicy, holding the other back for the next round or using metabolic to get onto an objective and in position to threaten my opponent on round 2 without needing Swarmlord.
Not having Swarmlord means you need to deploy aggressively. And if you don't get first turn then your opponent has all the space they need to destroy at least 1 of the Dimas with their short ranged, high damage, shooting.
For me, I find the second Dima to be wasted, at least with how I play it. So now I'm only taking 1 Dima and deploying him as far back as I can. But that 1 Dima has a massive 42" movement before charging thanks to Swarmlord and OA (And I make sure to inform my opponent of this, both as a good sportsmanship thing and to scare them into deploying defensively). So my opponent still has to play carefully knowing that the Dima can show up anywhere. The second Dima just doesn't seem to add much for my playstyle.
And I totally agree about lack of ranged firepower with the Lennon list. So for my list I started my changes by ditching the extra Dima, ditching 10 hormagaunts and adding a Barbed Hierodule.
Since then I've made more changes to fit in 2 Barbed Hierodules because I like the idea of having While We Stand on 3 shooty units (2 hierodules and hive guard) vs certain matchups. But that's a bit more drastic changes than what you're looking for probably.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 7, 2021 19:07:32 GMT
On the nid thing, 6-12 kraken zoeys is quite expensive, and unless you catalyst them they risk falling quite fast to damage 3 (but they move fast and are great for turn 1 smites). Also, If you ditch the SLord, then only one dima will be able to get slingshotted (which may be ok depending on how forward had the opponent moved). Leviathan zoeys have 6+++ to enable one out of two, on average, to absorb the nexte damage 3 shot. They still are quite tanky though compared to our other options, and I agree with you on the lack of gunpower for the John Lennon list. I think you may be on to something, replacing SL and hormas by zoeys. You replace the SL with what HQ then kazetanade ? If I replace the SL in the list, it will likely be with a Neurothrope to give the Zoeys rerolls of 1s in Psychic and wound regen, or a Broodlord to take advantage of a fuller use of Resonance Barb and the 2cp fight on death, which BLs are really good for in general. They're great traders and can put on the hurt pretty well for most midsized things, and will severely injure big things. Also like you noted - if I remove SL, then only 1 Dima can make it into the enemy's line on command. I'm toying with an idea similar to my double C'tans where I have 2 guys just tooling about just out of reach of guns, to bait the enemy into over-extending to kill them since they're really juicy and "high priority" targets. Once they're over-extended, the HG and Exo chew them up. I'm unlikely to lose the Dima in one go unless they have a huge range of 40+" guns that they can leverage. One unit of Attack Bikes or a unit of double shoot Retributors shouldnt kill it outright, esp on T1 when they dont have miracle dice 6s to make the magic happen and they're outside of magic range. If they dont go for the Dima and instead try to play cagey, I'll sit on objectives and just take blows to the face with Zoeys or Gaunts, and just score Primaries and deny their Primaries until they decide they need to take me more seriously. The question I'm having right now though is what exactly are the 10-12 Zoeys giving me, and is it worth the price? I think they're way too expensive after the points bump ( they were already borderline in the last points bump) for stats efficiency, so it really comes down to what you're gaining from them. Am I gaining VP by having them in? Am I gaining any tactical advantages? Am I denying anything to the enemy? Am I gaining any meaningful form of Damage? Am I creating any difficulties for my opponents to deal with in this current list? At first I felt that the Zoeys give me board presence I would otherwise not have. I retain that this is true - we have very few things which are as tanky as they are, the next most maybe being the horribly overpriced TG or the very well priced Tyranid Warriors with Enhanced Resistance on allowing them to take on most forms of anti-elite guns other than SM plasma and melta. However, it's an expensive 500 points we're paying for 2 relatively slow moving blocks of wounds that can hold objectives in the home base, which you would be holding with gaunts or your shooting units most of the time. At most, it's a reasonably hard to shift block that can sit on 1 midfield objective in a relatively uncontested lane (and bait people into coming to steal it from us), and it helps us to put damage onto non-psyker armies who are trying to cross into midfield, and can put on average 8MWs on a unit assuming all goes well. Am I really willing to pay 500pts for this? At the end of the day I think the list doesnt synergize with the way Zoeys want to play. They want to be tanky, durable, and put out support damage and be annoying in general from a safer distance. What may work better (but is harder to work around) is to have Barbed Heirodules (1 or 2) with the Zoeys and the Kronos patrol, presenting a really thick fire base that takes a lot of effort to trim down, which has no problem with both volume to vs standard hordes as well as many elites. I think that immediately shores up Lennon's lack of fire power for tables lacking these thick full bodied walls, at the cost of melee (which you can still have 1 Dima instead of a 1 Barbed Heirdo for the aforesaid "baiting" and countercharge). However this list is wanting to use 2 Dimas cuz I bought 2 Dimas, and I dont have Barbed Heirodules. I dont think Zoeys really synergize more with the list or provide it enough value to outweigh having SL, So out the Zoeys go. Assuming SL stays, we still kind of need to supplement the damage potential that's missing from the list. Lennon's original uses an Dev/MRC Flyrant with Murderous Size, which is decent for the Marine meta and ok vs Elves and SOB in general, covering majority of the bases, but is primarily used for guarantee-ing Onslaught to go off. I'd chosen instead to add a 2nd Exocrene to the list with Dermic Symbiosis to start on the board together with the 2 Dimas and SL for better threat saturation and better damage output (because 12 shots of Exo is STILL going to outdamage the Flyrant's 12 shots of AP0+ 4 MRCs on almost anything), so the list looks like this: Kronos Patrol - Neurothrope - 1x Ripper - 1x30 Devilgants - 1 x 6 Impguards - 1 x Lictor - 2 x Exo Kraken Patrol - SL - 1 x 20 Horma - 1 x 15 Terma - 1 x 10 Terma - 1 x Lictor - 2 x Dimachaerons Conceptually I can do the same sit and bait thing, but because I have 2 Exocrenes who can pump out damage on most things and the 2 Dimachaerons threatening the centre that are perpetually out of general midfield range, I think the damage will force a lot of armies to have to act instead of sitting back and waiting for their opportunity to strike; being shelled by 2 Exocrenes and 1 HG is actually withering and not many armies can weather that for 2 turns and be in good condition (I know this because 2 exo 1 HG formed the basis of any competitive list I worked on tail end of 8th edition, as did many others on the Hive, when Marines were their strongest). Having a number of disposable units also allows me to play games with their objectives and just reach out and grab it from under them, opening my guys to shoot first and ask questions later for longer. The enemy is definitely wiping them out sadly since I cannot manage to build the points to bring 30 full men, and for 30 men you can do some ridonkulous tricks with morale and casualties from coherency. I would definitely add more troops rather than a HQ at this point (I prioritize having more troop units available than the actual model count themselves, as it's with many of these chaff drops that you can screen out the enemy or have really cheap trading tools you can use to surpress the enemy. We're not SM where our surpressing units are also obsec and will also beat up anything that's within 1" of it). One thing though I would highlight as an issue for sure is the lack of ability to bounce Artillery. SL's extremely core to the list - the moment you meet an IG list, SL is as good as dead. He's not surviving 2D6 reroll 1 dice number of shots of S10 into invul of flat 3 damage, followed by ANOTHER D6 roll 2 dice reroll 1 dice from a Basilisk thereafter which also does flat 3 damage. Basilisk's ap-3 also does mean that it will chew through the Enhanced Resistance HG, so basically nothing survives. I'd like to bring a min unit of 3 TG for this but... it's not like they can survive the barrage either and SL's still going to die to the Manticore. So in the case of an IG match up, I'm actually unsure how to handle this, other than hope to go first and go balls deep on that damn Manticore. If SL goes down first then, gonna have to hope for really good advance rolls. But honestly, with 4-5 monsters on the field, the ONE monster without an invul will probably cop the most attention first, so SL could make it out from there. I'm unsure if the list can handle the new DE hotness. It's got a lot of stuff going for it, but the troop count is light and difficult to bounce DE off initially, especially with like 4 raiders and 3 venom builds or something crazy transport heavy.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 7, 2021 19:38:02 GMT
Dimas without Swarmlord feels really bad unless you're playing with terrain that can block LOS to the Dimas. For them to survive turn 1, I usually have to deploy the Dimas as far back in my deployment zone as possible to outrange 24" and 36" guns. Then use Swarmlord PLUS Kraken OA to get one of the Dimas into something juicy, holding the other back for the next round or using metabolic to get onto an objective and in position to threaten my opponent on round 2 without needing Swarmlord. Not having Swarmlord means you need to deploy aggressively. And if you don't get first turn then your opponent has all the space they need to destroy at least 1 of the Dimas with their short ranged, high damage, shooting. For me, I find the second Dima to be wasted, at least with how I play it. So now I'm only taking 1 Dima and deploying him as far back as I can. But that 1 Dima has a massive 42" movement before charging thanks to Swarmlord and OA (And I make sure to inform my opponent of this, both as a good sportsmanship thing and to scare them into deploying defensively). So my opponent still has to play carefully knowing that the Dima can show up anywhere. The second Dima just doesn't seem to add much for my playstyle. And I totally agree about lack of ranged firepower with the Lennon list. So for my list I started my changes by ditching the extra Dima, ditching 10 hormagaunts and adding a Barbed Hierodule. Since then I've made more changes to fit in 2 Barbed Hierodules because I like the idea of having While We Stand on 3 shooty units (2 hierodules and hive guard) vs certain matchups. But that's a bit more drastic changes than what you're looking for probably. Thanks for the feedback Zimko - I literally just typed out while musing on hiveoverall's talk, about how double Zoeys dont synergize with the Dimas due to major strategy differences, and that a list like that is better served with dual Barbed Heirodules. I also noted that without SL, the Dima's cant actually be played aggressively since you'll lose 1 for sure, so it becomes a game of chicken where their role is actually to bait people to come out to play within the 24" zone of the midboard, for the shooting elements to kill off. (I experienced this a lot when playing with Skorpekh, where people would go out of their way to get something into range to kill the Skorpekh, whether they succeed or fail. And leave that something open for C'tans to reach and chew on.) And if anything thinks they can be funky and make super aggressive plays any time in the game into my deployment zone, the Dimas then pounce onto them, where they can reach with mostly natural movement. But honestly speaking, I only have a vague idea on this, and dont really know if it'd be feasible or even practical/likely vs a reasonably experienced opponent. Most of my baiting/trap plays in the past have backfired pretty spectacularly on me. Like your experience says, probably trying to play Dimas without SL is a big fallacy waiting to happen. I can 2nd your thoughts about the 2nd Dima - back during the GS Sling days, there reached a point where having so much melee threat (2-3 units) was taking up too much points in the army and not leaving me enough points to bring good support or the real carries. Like we all should know by know, GS Sling is not carried by the GS - it's carried by the HG who get to shoot unhindered for 5 turns straight and the leftovers scrounge points. Dima Sling is exactly the same - the Dima's are distraction carnifexen that HAVE to be dealt with and cannot be ignored. They can be used like an OOE missle to take out this one super important thing if they can, then take a lot of effort to kill before dying spectacularly. At one point, GS Sling became so difficult to play because of lack of space to hide and always losing 1-2 units of GS, that I dropped to having only 1 unit of GS on the table and accept that if they can be shot at and killed, then I need a plan B anyway, rather than bringing MORE of them to make sure the plan works even if I lose a unit. The Dima's probably follow a very similar thought process - having 1 is enough to cause havoc and take out a very key thing. However, at this moment in time I do not know what I would change the 2nd Dima into, as it's best substitute is a Flyrant, and Dimas are just better than Flyrants in almost every way. 3 Exocrenes are too much of a commitment IMO, and having played 15 HG at one point in time, I can attest that MORE HG isn't the answer. Considering that Zoeys are NOT the answer we're looking for here, and the Maleceptor although gives a great defensive buff for that early anti tank pressure we're expecting on the lone Dima, is completely unecessary considering the much more cagey placement we'd be doing with the sole Dima (although granted it can be good for the Exocrenes instead). so I would at the moment think about converting the Dima into yet more OBSEC to work with (having a few blocks of 30 is actually really powerful, while having the 10s for throwaway missions), and a Broodlord for Fight On Death shenanigans. It's just a shame he cant give us back CP though. But since I actually bought the 2nd one, I'd like to actually get to play it for a bit... =P Thanks guys for sharing your thoughts and helping me with the musing process. Really appreciate having other's thoughts that can come in and sort of guide my own thinking as well, and also having reminders basically of things from before that we can sort of pick up again. Assuming the list above - the goal would be to pick EoAF or Domination, Deploy Scramblers. The 3rd objective is really a question mark since there are no No Mercy No Respite objectives that are good for Nids to take in the first place, so possibly picking a map objective if it's actually usable or going to Assassinate/WWSWF as a desperation pick. I dont fancy either of these choices but until Nids gets their new codex objectives which are cross fingers good for NMNR/Purge The Enemy/Warpcraft objecitves, thems the breaks. The gameplan would be the same generally - hold back, play cagey, mess with the enemy's primary scoring, try to maintain our primary scoring, and force them to make a mistake. Or, go all in aggression and push everything scary into their face, overwhelm their position, and force them to make a mistake while the shooting does it work regardless of the outcome. EDIT: A few issues I just realized. The lack of a 3rd Secondary is actually a big problem for scoring. And, the fact that we cannot actually secure Primaries ourselves, because we have no units which are capable of just existing on different objectives when required. I think this necessitates going back to 30 man units as a base (1 x 30 will last for 1 x turn scoring, so 3 x 30 for 3 turns of scoring, on theory). This gives us the option for Grind Them Down for the 3rd secondary, which is about on parr but less restrictive in gameplay than WWSWF.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 16, 2021 1:38:11 GMT
I think the Flyrant has some more room for thought if you use it for your solution to the 3rd secondary problem. The psychic secondaries can be very good based on the mission or opposing army, and the Flyrant is uniquely strong at Pierce the Veil. There are two missions in GT2020 that a Flyrant can start pinging Pierce the Veil T1 in moderate safety (corner deployments). I've only had the opportunity to play on those twice so far, but have gotten an easy 15 VP from it both times (first turn almost guarantees 8 VP). Great use of 200 pts, and your current firebase + 1x Dima can force your opponent to pay a heavy price to stop it. A Walkrant could accomplish the same while being easier to hide, but getting w/in 6" on T1 isn't quite as guaranteed.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 16, 2021 16:56:29 GMT
I'd also like to add that Warriors are probably the best bet for sitting on objectives vice 30x gants. A 9-man with ES is extremely difficult to move (in my experience) in comparison to the 30 gants, and are barely more expensive. Naked 5-man even do fairly well at surviving to score primaries for the pts spent. AG's bring them to a nice medium ground between gants & gaunts when considering price/mobility. There are also no easy choices for gunning them down; 1D weapons won't (usually) have the AP to get through ES (brutal if you can get in cover), and 2D, 3D, d3, & d6 will either have to be shot less effectively at Chitin'd warriors or aimed at the Big bugs. Helps force the opponent into a lose/lose choice, whereas 30-blocks do not bring extra decision points for the opponent (the more choices they have to make, the more opportunities for mistakes). If you can spare the points, LW/BS gives no great decisions for the opponent to deal with what is sitting on an objective. They also don't have to deal with max Blast shots, and since they are more durable against d6 Blast weapon profiles than gants, another point to effectiveness. I really have only liked 10-man gants/gaunts, 150+ pts evaporating in a turn has left a bad taste in my mouth for anything larger (besides reserved DevGants).
The only ability you would lose w/ Warriors over gants is some ability to overwhelm objectives. However, seeing as how most factions use 5-man units for objectives, I don't think the loss will be felt terribly often. Can always try a few games with 1x30 gants and 1x9 Warriors and see which excels at objectives better if you want first-hand experience to tip the scales one-way or the other.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 16, 2021 18:46:25 GMT
Warriors need Enhanced Resistance to be of any use - both my Adaptation slots have been taken up by more important units, so there's no space in my army for them. Otherwise those are very good points - I used to use Zoanthripes for the same purpose but they're now too expensive to make it work, really.
The Flyrant thing is true, and essentially its a smaller Dimachaeron for nearly same points. I'm not sure about pierce the veil, but its a very interesting choice for a 3rd instead of WWS/GTD which are both bad for Nids IMO.
I'm heading out for a 3 round RTT in a few hours, bringing a Necrons SK list as follows:
-SK -1 x Chrono(Nanomines)(veil), 1 x Techno (CCN, Failsafe) - 1 x Kellermorph wannabe Hextech Destroyer (veil) -1 x 20 warriors, 1 x 10 warriors, all reapers - 2 x 5 Wraiths - some scarabs - 2x 5 Flayed Ones - 1 Triarch Stalker and 1 Ghost Ark
Originally I am extremely tempted to play mixed fleet but that gives away both a WLT and a special ability on SK - feels so ridiculously bad to waste points in that way. So I'll probably maintain it all in Novokh. The warriors are too important to move out like that anyway.
Secondaries are playing mixed - its either Engage or Purge the Vermin, Code of Honour or WWS/GTD, DepScram or Banners, all depending on the speed and durability of the enemy army. The maps are locked in scorched earth, meaning I don't need to move to score - precisely what I wanted for this type of archetype anyway.
Back to Nids, or trying DG once done here.
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Post by No One on Apr 17, 2021 2:09:04 GMT
The psychic secondaries can be very good based on the mission or opposing army, and the Flyrant is uniquely strong at Pierce the Veil. There are two missions in GT2020 that a Flyrant can start pinging Pierce the Veil T1 in moderate safety (corner deployments). I'm not sure about pierce the veil, but its a very interesting choice for a 3rd instead of WWS/GTD which are both bad for Nids IMO. Hmm...it's something to consider I guess, but you're not just competing with WWSWF/Grind, you're competing with the mission secondary. Which, for the 2.5 missions where you can reasonably start it T1 (Vital intelligence, sweep and clear, priority target, in ascending order of difficulty to make it to the desired edge), they all have at least reasonable mission secondaries. Vital int is probably the worst, since it's only 1 VP per hold and requires an action, but that action can be done in DZ by anything, and if you're not at least holding 2 you're losing hard on primary: it's at least a secondary you'll get something out of with generally minimal investment, rather than banking on surviving with a flyrant for multiple turns with minimal contribution (potentially worth, because VP are good, but not a definite call either way). Sweep and clear is a nice easy hold centre at end of turn, and priority target is the best secondary in the game. So while it's something to bear in mind, it doesn't really change the problem of 3rd secondary: if you're playing, say, scorched earth? Terrible mission secondary, and you're not going to make it to your opponent's board edge, have nobody within 6" and survive for multiple turns to make veil any good.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 17, 2021 12:16:01 GMT
Thanks for the feedback No One I'll think about it more. Ended the day 2-1, ahead by 1pt both games, lost by 6pts: I have only one takeaway. THE SILENT KING SUCKS. END OF STORY. Only buffs CORE, so only Necron Warriors are worth - bikes, Immortals, and Deathmarks are too expensive and susceptible to the modern damage issues, and Lychguard move too slow/ only meleeto make any concerted play. Multi melta volume, fire raptor, lascannons - basically anything that's not token anti-tank just tears him apart. 8" movement means he's not terrain hopping - so he stays in 1 area the entire game. Reroll wounds in the worst place - only in melee on a platform that only moves 8" on mostly only getting charged platforms instead of playmaker platforms - just sit and take it in the ass. The best thing about SK? Hia damn menhirs making potshots over a few turns. Nothing else in his kit feels good, and it mostly doesn't work together well. You need some massively huge LOS blocking pathways to go anywhere.
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Post by bestaltan on Apr 17, 2021 13:50:46 GMT
Yea, a buddy of mine took SK to a tournament a couple months back. SK is now collecting dust on the shelf and he vows that when he gets back to Necrons, it’s going to be with a completely revamped, faster list.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 26, 2021 19:36:32 GMT
Looked at pierce the veil- it says 2 turn or more of casting within 6" of enemies battlefield edge for 8pts. That's only achievable by a Flyrant that has double moved on a dawn of war or the weird shaped ones, and requires reckless placement and an opponent that isn't aware of how pierce the veil works. That's a hard pass for me.
In the end, I'm going to go with that Flyrant instead of 2nd Dima - just so that I have something with FLY that can go after random Aircrafts that were showing up in my meta. Probably need to Fight Twice to down most of them, but so far I've found all of them extremely high pressure with a tonne of anti-infantry shooting, which i can't take for a few turns straight. Those kinds of Fliers need to die.
I'm taking the adaptation off the Exocrene and putting it on a 8 man warrior blob (points issue) with LWBS meant to screen for the HG. This does mean both Exocrenes can now be easily killed without invuls, so I hope its worth the sacrifice.
So summary list looks like this: - Meelyrant - Swarmlord - 2 x 10 Gants - 1 x 8 Warriors LWBS - 1 x Dima - Neuro - 1 x Ripper, 2 x lictors (whatever fleets) - 1 x 6 HG - 2 x Exo - 1 x 30 Devilgants
With only 9cp to start, and 2cp burnt for reserves shenanigans (assumed 1cp strat reserve and 1cp lictor), starting on very little cp. I use to burn through 13 or 15cp in a single go. Not sure how toolboxy this toolbox will be when I don't have the cp to enable everything.
All the tools are there though at least. So I guess its just a matter of practicing rationing.
Edit:
The plan becomes: Score 10/10/10/10 for Primary, as the warriors are likely to survive all game.
Score on Engage, Banners/DepScram, and Assassinate - in the event there is no psykers on the enemy team, possibly Mental Interrogation. We have excess psykers most of the time too, although my list is a bit thin on expendable casting (SL is the most expendable). There's also Psychic Ritual Shenanigans with SL, assuming the enemy doesn't require a full SL boost for the Flyrant to reach on T2.
Hold the Dima back for a play, unless enemy gives a free pass for Dima to wreck stuff. Bait them to within secured range or shooting range, unleash with the double exo and HG. Just score and wait for the play to happen.
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Post by zimko on Apr 26, 2021 20:54:36 GMT
I'm not so sure about the warriors. Unless you're deploying the Hive Guard really aggressively and expect melee charges on turn 1, hormagaunts should be enough of a screen. As you say, your CP is thin so you'd save CP just taking Hormagaunts since they don't need a defensive stratagem to function and they don't need an adaptation.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 27, 2021 2:39:26 GMT
I'm not so sure about the warriors. Unless you're deploying the Hive Guard really aggressively and expect melee charges on turn 1, hormagaunts should be enough of a screen. As you say, your CP is thin so you'd save CP just taking Hormagaunts since they don't need a defensive stratagem to function and they don't need an adaptation. We can remove LWBS so that it gets cheaper - the key thing is about having units to sit on objectives that are not home base, which are either 30 mans or warriors cuz nothing else will really survive on points to score primary, especially when we're not playing melee MTO. The warriors are the test case though since I'm not particularly convinced about them in general, but my meta has low saturation of melee armies other than a few key players. Its a very shooty meta I play in, and they are pretty good to tank vs shooty other than plasma(still good) and melta (which I don't mind those going into warriors instead of exocrenes).
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 27, 2021 20:27:07 GMT
So, after reading Zimkos thread and mulling it a bit, have decided to go full retard as follows:
Behemoth - Melyrant Super Flyrant - SL - 2 x 10 Termagants - Maleceptor - Dimachaeron
Kronos - Neuro - 1 x 3 rippers - 1 x 30 Devilgants - 2 x Lictors wherever - 1 x 6 HG - 2 x Exocrenes
The gameplan remains the same - score deploy, EoAF, and PR/Assassinate/Mental Interrogation. Shooting units will sit on home/ close to home, Maleceptor will move out to sit on middle, Dima/Flyrant/SL will move out to take enemy's side.
With a Maleceptor, we basically throw caution to the wind, and offer 6 MCs straight up for the enemy to work on . Most weapons wound on a 5+ or a 4+ means its as good if not better than Transhuman, and quite possibly might survive even without Dermix Symbiosis.
This is probably a super bad ide, but I dunno why this list seems to speak to me. I guess this is what I'll be sticking with for awhile.
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Post by windwalkerranger on Apr 28, 2021 17:05:25 GMT
Hello all. Been playing for a while over the net on tabletop with my beloved nids, since I had no model restrictions I had plenty of time to experiment and develop some ideas. The progress of evolution in my hive is still ongoing, but I would like to drop in my two cents now I have read the latest theorycrafting here. Regarding zoanthrophs: The question what they are bringing into the field is somewhat reliable anti-terminator/anti invul save damage on a significanty durable body. I have been wrecked several times by space wolf terminators, wolfriders and deepstrike/charge shennanigans, including with things like their heroic dreadnaughts. Zoanthropes are good against all of them, because you don't even need to move correctly to get into position as all of these things were coming on my way anyway. However it's impossible to NOT build your army around them. Once you go zoan, you go full zoan OR full mortal wounds. Zoans are best in leviathan, period. That 6+++ comes in and saves that one last wound and it's back to 3++ again. Amazing. And now that you are beginning to believe maybe Maleceptor is playable, just imagine the possibilities. Why not a malanthrope or venomthropes for good measure? Next time I go against space wolves I will go 2x6 zoans, 1 maleceptor, 2 neuro's, and 3x3 biovores. (Redundancy all the way). I can use biovores to deal MW or place mines on the path to disrupt space wolf advance. However, what good is all of this stuff against armies that bunker up and shoot you to death? Can you really outgun them? Or what if enemy flies over your mines and disembarks and charges anyway (drukhairy stuff!)? So you need a lot of chaff, the cheapest and the most numerous chaff possible. The chaff will also enjoy 6+++ A list will therefore probably look something like the following? ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [100 PL, 12CP, 1,999pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Leviathan + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Warlord Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite + Troops +Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]. 25x Hormagaunt: 25x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [9 PL, 144pts]. 24x Hormagaunt: 24x Scything Talons Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 66pts]. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 66pts]. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 66pts]. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Maleceptor [9 PL, 170pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite Zoanthropes [14 PL, 300pts]. 6x Zoanthrope: 6x Claws and Teeth Zoanthropes [14 PL, 300pts]. 6x Zoanthrope: 6x Claws and Teeth + Heavy Support +Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]. 3x Biovore: 3x Spore Mine Launcher Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]. 3x Biovore: 3x Spore Mine Launcher Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]. 3x Biovore: 3x Spore Mine Launcher ++ Total: [100 PL, 12CP, 1,999pts] ++Created with BattleScribe
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Post by bestaltan on Apr 28, 2021 18:23:28 GMT
I’m thinking Ad Mech and Guard would love to face off against this list.
The list has no real threat capacity other than a few smites. You might be able to hold off your opponent for 2-3 turns, but it’s gonna get rather ugly when they finally can get themselves into position for charges and shooting.
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