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Post by beetlejuice on Feb 27, 2020 8:16:45 GMT
Why not make your jorm detachment kronos instead for symbiostorm? Drop the raveners and make the termies 29 each so that they’re not scorable with marked for death and you can go back to 3x6 zoeys for the points saved.
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Post by No One on Feb 27, 2020 9:16:38 GMT
I think the idea is that there's one place to hide: that can be for either the cepter or the hive guard. So instead use Jorm to drop into a different (safe) position.
But I don't know if they do enough to justify the >300 pts and 2 CP? I suppose onslaught can give them reasonable impact on T2, so only loses that one turn (and they can definitely be worth it with just one turn of nothing), but loss of Kronos and symbiostorm as well hurts too.
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Post by kazetanade on Feb 27, 2020 11:18:25 GMT
I think the idea is that there's one place to hide: that can be for either the cepter or the hive guard. So instead use Jorm to drop into a different (safe) position. But I don't know if they do enough to justify the >300 pts and 2 CP? I suppose onslaught can give them reasonable impact on T2, so only loses that one turn (and they can definitely be worth it with just one turn of nothing), but loss of Kronos and symbiostorm as well hurts too. The Maleceptor is the anchor - with it the list tanks Cents like a boss, without it the list will fold like paper. (4s to 5s and 5s to 6s is the camel break back point, but it also saves a gaunt unit from outright dying to a single unit volley). It's funny what -1 to wound will do, but it's really relevant due to how these lists are alpha and cripple to win. If my analysis and theorycrafting is correct, the first genus of SM lists will buckle once you can shrug off the initial assault and strike them down. Of course this new breed of Broviathan is a different beast - it's literally Tau taken to the extreme, and unless you can pierce through it you will have difficulty trying to out score since it'll just sit the middle, survive, and max score. 60 Intercessors 3+ 5++ 5+++ Transhuman IH Spells is nails to Chew through. Edit: Symbiostorm is good, but like No One said its about who survives, Male or HG. By going Jorm I get to keep both alive if I go 2nd and they have some ridiculous mobile or ridiculous artillery (high volume, high range, ap-3 and capable 3 damage), like IG or Skorpius. A HG that does less damage but gets to shoot is more effective than a HG that does way more damage but takes big losses T1. If I were to do HG on the ground as the ace, I would probably build around triple Flyrant or 12 HG to mitigate potential T1 problems, if I could also squeeze in Ridgerunners. I would drop the Maleceptor because by that point we're running on effective maneuvering and striking hard and fast rather than out lasting, and it's more important to build your strengths than to shore up your weaknesses.
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Post by kazetanade on Feb 29, 2020 14:32:13 GMT
Tested vs new Sisters and WS , not optimized lists but serviceable.
My theory is right - if you can survive, you will deny the enemy a major part of their str, since zoeys care so little how many survive past 3 they're just forced to try and chew through the wholevthing.
Took an Aggressor squad full fire with CM and Lt to take down 1 5mqn Zoey. My haunts are untouched. zoeys reel the 5+ to wound less than MCs. I'm impressed.
further edits: sooo sleepy. Quick summary, Zoeys tanked like a boss, but the damage output was inconsistent. Deny on 2+, Deny on 4+, Psyker denies with +3, mass Psykers, problem problem problem. I am still partial to 6 Man Zoeys, but 18 feels like too many points sunk into purely being tanky. 4/4/4 is definitely a viable thing but I dont like how each only needs to lose 1, and you just need to lose 2 from a unit to render the formation useless, and 4 is reasonably easily killable with mass bolters so you lose your deny kill/kill more play altogether. I think minimum is definitely 5/5/5, so that 6 must die before every unit loses its output, but also so that you need to lose minimum 3 Zoeys from a squad before you lose strategem options. If not doing 3 units, then just run 6/6 purely for the deny play.
Second point, really need some guns on the ground. Had to focus smite on the forward objective grabbers every test game, due to no guns to clear them out. They ate some character smites, then when the big units needed to smite (assuming small smites didnt screw up too badly), you fail the cast. It was a pattern that repeated itself quite a lot. I noticed that with Advance and Double Move, you can actually position yourself in a lot of positions to bypass the blockers sometimes.
The alternative is to continue sitting them back, but have even more Gaunts to go out and contest. If you have guns on the ground, then the Gaunts can focus on contesting or grabbing objectives while Zoeys just wear them down. Having to use Zoeys to grab objectives is where things start to turn into a losing proposition - they can sit on Objs, but they make lousy grabbers, so you pair their amazing resillience with HG creating pressure and the Gaunts just being aggro and grabbing what needs to be grabbed.
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 8, 2020 5:22:27 GMT
Soooo, we're doing Maelstrom of War for a short event in April, and we're all messing around with lists around it.
First thing I cant figure - cant work out if GS Sling works for Maelstrom. The new Maelstrom is definitely better than it used to be, with an 18 card draw of your choosing. Secure works well with GS Sling I guess, but how you score it is a lot different from before - now that you can only score 3 at a time, and a max hand of 5, with no way to discard other than playing it on the table and discarding it then (or paying cp which is too much), I feel less convinced. You want to play cagey with the GS Sling because taking damage is extremely bad (unit size of 20 but acceptable losses is at less than half unit dead, meaning they cant be touched). Male/Mala doesnt make it work tanking wise.
Anyone got an idea how to make Maelstrom work? Should I just run GSC with some Nids guns and call it a day?
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Post by No One on Mar 8, 2020 6:37:31 GMT
Secure works well with GS Sling I guess, but how you score it is a lot different from before - now that you can only score 3 at a time, and a max hand of 5, with no way to discard other than playing it on the table and discarding it then (or paying cp which is too much), I feel less convinced So, you've gone from (usually) 3 in play, sometimes more, sometimes less, to 5 choose 3. You've got less spike than 1 or 2 missions, but a lot more consistency: you can guarantee the cards you've got are cards you want, or if they're all dead cards just ditch them (there's no discard limit: you should basically never have cards in play for consecutive turns unless you're concerned about scoring the entire deck). I've found it incredibly effective for maelstrom. With the amount of board control you get, as well as lying in wait, you can pretty comfortably get basically any secure/suppremacy you want, and can often go for dominations to really swing the game. Then add some other easy stuff (warp, no prisoners, blood and guts, maybe some of the Codex cards if you're running) and you can really rake in the VP. I find that people can't be too aggressive because of the nids/reserves T1, and then you score hard enough T2-3/4 that they just can't come back. Priority orders can also be a pretty busted card: plonk a patty on an objective to score an extra card and 4 VP for basically nothing. Could be too few cards it works with to be worth the pay off, we don't usually run for me to have much experience, but the few times I have it's been an easy score in a similar vein to domination: not necessarily a card you can immediately play, but wait a turn or 2 and you'll usually be able to pick something up. Do you have more details on format?
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 16, 2020 5:08:03 GMT
No One the format is just CA Maelstrom. 18 card deck min. We're getting setups with great deployment zone los block terrain but pitiful midboard LOSB - enough to hide small units if lucky. I'm working with Zimkos list right now (with some changes - don't have a dakka flyrant, got a pod) and it's felt pretty decent. Card draw as helped tbf, since getting Blood and Guts + Devour + Crush is like ... OK. What concerns me in the Tyranid deck is the big vp card needs 3-6 kills in melee to pull off, which is bloody hard unless it's early-mid and there are some characters that are easy to eat, cuz big units are genuinely tough. I want to use the gsc deck but that keys off GSC or BB meaning my Nids can't help score at all, and BB is really underwhelming. But tbf that is only 5/6 of the entire deck you'd use. Going back to 2017 I have been winning all my games due to map pressure from Genestealers and HG combined, with anything coming into the middle getting slapped by symbio HG or Genestealers in the grill. I always lose all the GS, my BL, most of my hormagants, and usually SL too, hanging onto the table with a Neuro, Rippers, and HG, but with an 18-20 pts score vs an enemys 14 or 17. Also going back to 2017, the biggest concern is artillery bearing down on my HG, since those Basilisks do flat 3 and wound on 3+ always. It also hurts that they could potentially instakill SL straight up with no TG ( Bassi + Manti combo, because damages - 2D6 with rr, BS3 rr1, S10, 3flat, then double shooting full rr bassi). There are no points left to create tg, unless I drop the pod and some hormies. It also hurts I have no answer to Tau, whom I can't score off for 3 turns while killing drones, but the he probably can't score too well either having to be in a castle. It's one of the reasons I want to make changes but don't know if I need to. I'm considering doing a majority points switch to GSC. No One what would you run for a Maelstrom based thing?
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Post by No One on Mar 16, 2020 6:25:59 GMT
What concerns me in the Tyranid deck is the big vp card needs 3-6 kills in melee to pull off, which is bloody hard unless it's early-mid and there are some characters that are easy to eat, cuz big units are genuinely tough. It's literally better blood and guts: 1 for 1, D3 for 3, and D3+3 for 6. It's a similar thing with the Character kill one: better assassinate at 1 for 1, or 2 for D3. My list . Being more helpful, I do think GSC is better for maelstrom (of course, I haven't really tried out the new nid stuff much because I think GSC is still just better overall: but especially for maelstrom). There's ~9 kill cards. 5 of which are awkward and potentially dead cards (assassinate and kingslayer are awkward without strong anti-Character threat, big game and scour the skies can just be impossible to score. Witch hunter is both). Most armies won't have reliable threat in both shooting and cc to want both blood and guts and overwhelming. And Codex kill cards can be hit and miss. So maybe 3-5 reliable kill cards, and some might take another 1-2 less reliable ones. There's some decent utility cards (e.g. master the warp if psykers, some Codex cards). Which will usually leave about half the deck being still ground control ones: not necessarily secures/defends, since there's a lot of other stuff (hold the line, supremacy, area denial and Codex stuff like swarm). If you can deny them a large portion of the board? It becomes difficult to impossible to score those sorts of cards. And GSC are in a good position to do so: force them back with HG/initial charges, then hold them as far back as you can. Score your objective cards quick, prevent them from scoring as much as possible: no targets for BGH, all <10 wound Characters, which leaves few kill objectives. Ob sec off theirs, deny hold the line. Win even if you fold quickly: 2 turns of you scoring everything vs them scoring nothing is very punishing. May also be worth considering stuff like RttS and lying in wait with a 20 man BB squad for T4/5 scoring, but not sure (not something I've mucked about with. Don't usually play pure maelstrom enough to warrant testing). e.g. Something like (quickly thrown together from my current list, so definitely not optimal): Battalion (Four Armed Emperor) (Vigilus: Broodsurge) HQ Patriarch (Familiar) (WL) 137 HQ Iconward 53 Elite Nexos 50 Elite Clamavus 55 Troops Acolytes (15, 5 saws, banner) 165 Troops Acolytes (15, 5 saws, banner) 165 Troops Acolytes (20, banner) 150 Troops Acolytes (20, banner) 150 Troops Acolytes (20, banner) 150 Battalion (Four Armed Emperor) HQ Magus 92 HQ Primus 75 Troops Acolytes (15, 15 hand flamers) 120 Troops Brood Brothers (10) 40 Troops Brood Brothers (10) 40 Battalion (Kronos) HQ Neurothrope 90 HQ Neurothrope 90 Troops Termagants (13) 52 Troops Rippers (3) 33 Troops Rippers (3) 33 Elites Hive guard (6) 258 Total: 1998
HG/flamer to clear space, 2 saw squads for murder, then 3 20 mans to contest and hold space. 2 BB for odd jobs. And rippers/terms/neuro to hold and contest backfield objectives a bit if they get aggressive on you. A BC neo variant would probably work well for similar reasons, just with less combat pressure to push them back.
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Post by kazetanade on Aug 12, 2020 3:28:52 GMT
GSC Trucks + Obsec combo. Hivecult RR hits RR wounds of 1 combo. 8 Tamiyas. Vroom vroom. Only question, Patty on table or no? His rr wounds aura doesn't extend to passengers eventhough Alphus does. Only really effective after getting out.. Magus is FAE for Vect. That stuff is too good to pass up. But probably means Cult Psyke is a waste. If giving UP Hivecult and FAE, can run full BC. Few good ideas - the Truck with Acos driving up behind ruin to hide and get strategem. Cutters instead of saws to decimate multiwound elites with invuls (assuming Wraithblades, 12A 4+ rr1s is 7H, 3+ to wound is 5W, 3++ is 2 failed saves, which is 2 chances to kill a WB straight out instead of only killing 1 WB with Saws ,but Saws gets more hits, so equal results. Prob better vs noninvul or 3+W like new bikes/Bladeguard, worse against normal Primaris). Very light on bodies, only 60 bodies. Need to make sure not shot prematurely. T1 must play VERY safe, getting only 5pts if necessary. Objectives I think should be Deploy Scramblers, Line breaker, and a kill Obj. List too small to take Raise Banners or actions in general. List too squishy to fight for centre, should probably cede it. WS might be an auto lose match up, since T1 charges with hard to kill bodies is almost a given. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [58 PL, 11CP, 1,235pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment CP+ Stratagems +Broodcoven [-1CP]+ HQ +Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 75pts]Patriarch [7 PL, 135pts]: Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Undying Vigour, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Single-minded Obsession + Troops +Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol + Elites +Kelermorph [3 PL, 80pts]+ Fast Attack +Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 210pts]. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber + Dedicated Transport +Goliath Truck [4 PL, 95pts]: Cache of Demolition Charges, Heavy Stubber, Twin Autocannon Goliath Truck [4 PL, 95pts]: Cache of Demolition Charges, Heavy Stubber, Twin Autocannon Goliath Truck [4 PL, 95pts]: Cache of Demolition Charges, Heavy Stubber, Twin Autocannon ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [41 PL, -4CP, 765pts] +++ Configuration +Cult Creed: None (Mixed Detachment) Detachment CP [-2CP]+ HQ +Magus [5 PL, -1CP, 100pts]: Broodcoven Magus, Familiar, Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Mind Control, Power: Undermine, Stratagem: The Cult's Psyche, The Crouchling, Warlord Trait: Inscrutable Cunning Primus [4 PL, -1CP, 85pts]: Bonesword, Broodcoven Primus, Stratagem: The Heart of the Creed, Warlord Trait: Hivelord + Troops +Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 130pts]: Cult Icon . 5x Acolyte Hybrid: 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Rending Claw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts]. 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife + Elites +Sanctus [3 PL, 60pts]: Sanctus Bio-dagger + Fast Attack +Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 210pts]. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber Achilles Ridgerunners [8 PL, 140pts]. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber ++ Total: [99 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe
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Post by kazetanade on Sept 5, 2020 6:55:04 GMT
Got a bit tired of GSC, borrwed a friend's Sallies for a handful of games. The difference is astounding - quite often felt on the backfoot (short ranged, Flamer Aggressors instead of bolters, only guns are 3 Eradicators) , but never lost. With GSC sometimes it just feels lost from T1. >_>
Anyway, I tried the GSC list against SoB, game was enlightening - this list and this army in general CANNOT sit on objectives, especially in the middle. It's fragile, and needs to kite back anything that's gunning for its face. So I would imagine, have to be prepared to eat like 1 or 2 turns of 5pts only, and I think that's a bit of a non-starter in this new edition. The Trukks werent great - having the transport buy time for the guys inside was decent, but since they cant sit on objectives, the original idea just doesnt work. I have 3 now anyway for collection's sake but I doubt they're leaving the shelf anytime soon. that 85pts can be used as a Kellermorph for better returns in general.
Hive Cult WLT didnt add all that much to the damage output. It's still fairly decent and I am keeping the Primus with double reroll 1s wound and reroll 1s hit, but it's not mandatory and if you need to turn it around for something else, nothing really lost.
Kellermorph had a good game here because, well, sisters. Otherwise, probably wouldnt have been as good. But Kellermorph + BC WLT rerolls assuming a melee character is a really strong counter, so like Ragnar or Celestine or some other character whose main purpose is to tear your face off. (wouldnt waste it on a tank unless it's a really big and hard to kill one, or Aggressors/Cents cuz those need to die and you cant risk Transhuman keeping them alive unexpectedly).
Making changes to adapt Alex Mcdougall's 20/20 Neophytes, so it's basically 8 HC Ridgerunners + 50 Shooty Neophytes + 40 Blockers + 10 Charging Acolytes. Also getting in the Iconward (but I'm not yet sold on the HI Magus + S4 banner combo yet, we dont have that many attacks with Neophytes, but I see its value). I actually feel more partial to the relic pistol for Kellermorph, because -2ap is legit even against marines (allowing you to proc support rr1s more consistently).
Also means no Vect - potentially big issue. Not happy with it, but not sure how to compensate without dropping the 2 Ridgerunners (can be done easily if running 6 Ridgerunners instead of 8/9, but I like Ridgerunners).
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Post by No One on Sept 5, 2020 9:02:28 GMT
Also means no Vect - potentially big issue. Not happy with it, but not sure how to compensate without dropping the 2 Ridgerunners (can be done easily if running 6 Ridgerunners instead of 8/9, but I like Ridgerunners). Might depend on how many CP you're ending up with and how important what you're doing is, but I've yet to have it and use it, or not have it and want it. 3 CP just feels too expensive with even less CP to work with. That...doesn't seem helpful with neos. I didn't usually get much value out of it with acos, even though they're actually relevant in combat and closer to trigger it more often. Neos just aren't really a threat: the use case seems super niche.
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Post by kazetanade on Sept 5, 2020 11:38:46 GMT
Also means no Vect - potentially big issue. Not happy with it, but not sure how to compensate without dropping the 2 Ridgerunners (can be done easily if running 6 Ridgerunners instead of 8/9, but I like Ridgerunners). Might depend on how many CP you're ending up with and how important what you're doing is, but I've yet to have it and use it, or not have it and want it. 3 CP just feels too expensive with even less CP to work with. That...doesn't seem helpful with neos. I didn't usually get much value out of it with acos, even though they're actually relevant in combat and closer to trigger it more often. Neos just aren't really a threat: the use case seems super niche. Its the objective pile on. HI let's you pile on a bunch of A to force saves, which will beat on any non marine. For Marines, it let's you push back with other units in the event they come close to wiping one. HI gives you other movement shenanigans - when people charge you for the pile in conso move, you HI into their base and stop their movement cold. Other than that I am not very sold on it, but Alex is doing it so there's gotta something there that's relevant. Just a matter of seeing *how* relevant. Vect is.. Just in case you need it. The just in case is hard to quantify.
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Post by wormlord666 on Sept 5, 2020 16:12:36 GMT
I am painting my trucks right now and prepare for a test game this week with a similar list. I will skip patriarch and have 2 fighty aco units. One saw one cutter. I’ll go full BC and bring an Iconward for 6+++ on the neophytes. I’d skip the sanctus as well and replace with 10 neophytes for lying in wait and actions.
I look forward to effectively have two different deployments with extra blips and return to shadows and moving the blipps. That way I think I could have one ”go-first” deployment and one ”go-second”. That element of surprise is something this list needs to capitalize on.
I believe the army needs to work tightly at first trying to limit the options for the opponent to get at the runners but still trying to cover the objectives needed.. I realize it will be ha hard list to play but I still have hopes.
Cp will go to lying in wait, lurker in the shadow and deployment trickery.
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Post by No One on Sept 6, 2020 3:34:36 GMT
HI gives you other movement shenanigans - when people charge you for the pile in conso move, you HI into their base and stop their movement cold. You can't HI in engagement range. So it's basically just relevant for counter-punching something that doesn't want to charge you, but has to get within 3". With neos. Could it matter? Yes. Will it matter enough to be worth anything? Highly doubt it: not like guard are a meta army at the moment.
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Post by kazetanade on Nov 5, 2020 12:50:43 GMT
Right, so I've given up on GSC for awhile and am taking a break from it. Necrons was coming out and I've blown the equivalent of a salaryman's pay on it, so I figure I'd better get some mileage out of my new collection.
I've tried a few variations since the codex dropped, but to my horror, 20 block warriors kept getting wiped in a single Shooting Attack from Plasmainceptors and Flamer Aggressors. My original "Novokh Warrior Tide" concept couldnt even charge, because Salamanders is a thing and not having control of when combat happens vs WS makes it a painful list to play. I havent gotten to try it against another army than SM yet, but I am not feeling confident with the number of A that a lot of top tier armies push out. I think Nids may also be a killer matchup due to the number of mortal wounds from smite, and the lack of a deny.
One thing that has performed exceptionally consistently are Wraiths - my Wraiths have been the all-stars in every list where people either dedicated a full power unit into them to kill them, or they keep harassing and surviving enough chip damage to be a menace to backline obsec. They're strong and deal with most outrider style units I've seen so far (they dont kill them sadly, but they do keep them locked down), and playing them as ObSec means you usually beat the outrider FA units (like AdM dogs, Tau Pirahnas, SM Outrider/bikes, etc). 6" move in the begining means if I go first, I get a first turn charge on anyone near the line - if they decide to play really safe, I get first pick of all terrain, and Wraiths hit hard enough that people dont really want to be within charging range when they're in terrain. They're really good for contesting objectives because Obsec, AND have a 3" HI strategem you can pull out of your pocket.
Scarabs are a little hit or miss for me - they're better than you'd think initially for clearing chaff (much better than ours) and will force saves on Marines. They really need that 5++ to not be a bit of a liability. It's hard for people to dedicate firepower to killing them, because they're ridiculously points cost efficient for something that could be obsec. 2+ d3 mortal wounds is just funny. Everyone says they're good so I have 2 units, but I wouldnt bring more than 2 as I'd rather more Wraiths and a Tomb Blade if I had more points.
Warriors have performed abysmal. They tanked random bolters and mostly died in the process vs Dark Angels. I won that game because of severe positional misplays from my opponent, on a tiny map (1k points). Even with the Orb of Eternity, out of 15 dead only 7 came back, so although it has potential it's really not a game changer, and I'd rather bake in redundancy. They are VERY good with Veil of Darkness though, as a unit of Reapers or Flayers getting warped in at 9" lets them unload into an enemy unit and would kill a lot or are really good supporting damage. (Flayers against Gravis: 40 shots, 6s explode(INFANTRY RF strategem), 6s auto wound(Gauss strategem). 27 hits, 6 are explode and auto wound for 12 saves. 21 5+ is 7, so 19 3+ saves since Gravis gets a free +1 armor save vs D1 weapons. that means 6 failed saves, which is 2 dead Gravis, which is a poor points trade but it's really strong support damage off the back of 2 C'tan mortal wound bombs going off. )
Skorpekh. I dont know how to feel about them. I love the models - easily my favourite in line. 8" move is not slow. T5 with -1 to wound strategem is relatively tanky. They destroy anything they touch, especially if you have the plasmacyte making things funny. They stack ridiculously well with Novokh, and Cryptomancer 5++ and rr charges buffs. They really have an issue getting close enough for combat, since they dont have Advance + Charge, no Veil, no DS capability. They have to literally run across the field, and if they're actually dangerous they will get an Plasmainceptor squad looking at them then it's up in smoke. Also hiding 2 units of Wraiths, does your terrain let you hide 3 units of 5 or 6 pretty big based models halfway up the field?
C'tans, especially Nightbringer, give me Trygon trauma flashbacks. 6H, 6W, 6 no saves, 6x1s for damage. No run and charge, no deepstrike, no character protection, no casting if Advanced, this thing is so slow it's almost painful. It's got a lot of threat and has to be respected by characters, but it runs into a Bladeguard unit and they come out with only 2 dead models and 1 injured. Apothecary heals it back up to full and brings 1 back, leaving it at 4 man instead of 3 man. I in return eat 3 damage in shooting and 3 damage in fight, being just enough to kill it off in 1 battleround. Deceiver is more consistent and can DS and charge,but 9" charges is urgh. BUT, everyone's keyed in on Nightbringer's melee and broken spell. I'm key'ed in on two units stacking their mortal wound spells in an area around them, creating a huge AoE where people are taking mortal wounds off the cuff and dying without really engaging with anything. Also, both units charging (NB naturally ignoring invuls, and other C'tans getting a strategem to ignore invuls) in will actually destroy any unit that's contesting, assuming both gets to or makes the charge. Together they're actually a little difficult to kill in 1 battleround too.
DOOMSTALKERS. So talked up. 3 Turns in, 3 couldnt kill a single Leman Russ (nearly 27 damage dealt to multiple, not a single VP out of it). D6 shots and D6 damage is some seriously feels bad variance, and so inconsistent. I think IG are the only people who can make D6 shots D6 damage work because of their consistency buffs. Kinda hard pass, but they're pretty well costed if you just need some cheap support fire and you dont need them to secure kills. Also should work vs Erads and Plasmainceptors just fine.
Necron strategems. URGH. They're really hard to spend, there's very few generically good ones. Novokh's is good, the C'tan one to use additional power is good, and Gauss auto wound on 6s is just alright (it gets really good when wounding on 5s and pairing with RF exploding 6s on a 20 man unit, much worse on a 5 man or 10 man Immortal). Everything else is kinda tailored to units, while some are always applicable (Skorpekh -1 to wound, Scarabs 2+ to explode), some are really niche or opportunistic (Heroic Intervention Canoptek, 4++ Quantum Shielding, C'tans ignore invul, Aetheric Intervention), and some are just downright feels bad (Tomb Blades Advance and Shoot Assault, Death Scythe lousy surpressing fire, Lychguard Heroic Intervention when next to characters... what)
Anyway, New List is up at the front. It's designed around the heavy T1 pressure keeping people locked in and unable to score due to ObSec Wraiths and Scarabs, or to be super conservative, waiting for the T2 drop which overloads them with 2 C'tans, 2 Wraiths, 1 Skorpekh, and a 20 man Warrior unit that deletes obsec. Scarabs either run actions for that new Necron objective, or run interference on the enemy and steal objectives. EoAF from T1, scoring Necron Objectives from T2, and either WWSWF or Grind Them Down since none of my units are easy to kill and they all engage the enemy pretty well. Very fast paced, very aggressive, should be something that most people playing against Necrons are not expecting to see since Necrons is known as the slow moving tide. Theorycraft wise, with enough terrain to hide in it has a fair matchup into AdMech and Sisters, can play the sides and eat towards the center against Marines, can contest Custodes on Obsec and are almost as tanky but with mortal wound support, can contest T8 builds with Skorpekh and Mortal Wounds, and only really has a poor matchup against mass Psyker Smite armies like TS, Tzeench Daemon variants, or Zoey Nids which I can also contest if I play the cards right. Might also have a rougher matchup into Hordes like 200 Boyz or 200 Gaunts, which no one in my meta will play because those get wiped by conventional armies, but I think if others adapted this list in metas where those played, it still has game since it can also scythe through this with everything (shooting, melee, and adaptable Mortal Wounds) and start to score by T3 (so it can catch up on Primaries while maxing Secondaries).
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