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Post by faux on Nov 1, 2017 13:52:52 GMT
Really? I've been playing Tyranids since 2nd edition, this is looking to be the best Codex since 3rd edition. Won't help us at tournaments still a weak codex compared to DG, AM, CSM and imo also Eldar... Im a semi comp player and want a strong codex, but not every codex can be top dog, there is a difference in good, viable, fun; and number 1. Also how can we judge yet? Its not even out...
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Post by N.I.B. on Nov 1, 2017 13:55:30 GMT
I just realised i was missreading the invisible hunter stratagem. i understood it as: a model 1" from a lictor can't charge, shoot or flee. i found it okay but in fact it just allow the lictor to disengage, shoot with it's powerfull ranged weaponry and then charge again. Guys we are speaking of a lictor. 4w unit with paper made T and save. Lets be honest, there is no chance on earth a lictor manages to survive a shooting phase, overwatch and a first round in melee and then another overwatch douse. So, why is there even a stratagem for this? To cover the fact that GW couldn't be arsed to write decent rules for it? Stratagems seem to be the new game design patches (pointless Lictor strat, lame Zoanthrope bundle strat).
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Post by rpricew on Nov 1, 2017 13:55:36 GMT
Disclaimer* I know the SL is a different Hive Fleet... this is a parody:
So I was just imagining the Swarmlord having a conversation with a Malanthrope under a tree (in cover) while his guard stood watch... First unit of Kraken Stealers show up from their quick run (advance)... "reporting as ordered, Sir". Swarmlord issues his Hive Command and off they go, Advancing towards the enemy. Then he realizes that the proper strategy in this situation is to Advance his stealers again. now they launch their coordinated assault. 24+3D6" away from their starting point.
He turns to the Mal... "tally ho, here comes the next wave of stealers... off they go!"
For real though... Kraken Stealers are Fast, Fast & Fast!
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Post by swarm492 on Nov 1, 2017 13:56:46 GMT
As mentioned before the leaks are unfortunately underwhelming.... We get so screwed when other armies get their codize... Really? I've been playing Tyranids since 2nd edition, this is looking to be the best Codex since 3rd edition. Im with this chap, best codex since 3rd. I was really hoping for a return of the mutation mechanics but alas we still have a great book. I dont think we "Got screwed" by any means, I think we really came out on top. Tyranids are a very dynamic force and as a result there are weaknesses that we will never truely get away from completely. And I think that's a good thing, if I had to have a more even approach in my codex and more reliability I'd play marines. But I don't like marines, I like Tyranids. And any rules that promote that army I will happily accept, and when my shooting cant bring the same ap to the table and my units armor is kinda...meh I understand it comes with the territory. If the Tyranid community has taught me anything its, if there is a will, there is a way. Looking back at 6th and 7th and the Tyranid lists that won anything of note I would shake my head at the madness the player had made of their army to win/and or compete. We have more than 1 or 2 playstyles that look good, that's great We arn't shoe-horned into spamming a single unit anymore, that's amazing We might not always win but we can stand on our own two feet, and that's fair. Also I dont want to be #1, I dont want to play in the unlit corner of the LGS with the eldar players
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Post by xtztxtxz on Nov 1, 2017 13:57:17 GMT
Won't help us at tournaments still a weak codex Out of curiosity, how many games have you played with this weak codex?
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Post by luke1705 on Nov 1, 2017 13:57:37 GMT
I am routine tournament player so I am thinking I always play against skilled player and lists which abuse everything. So to the double shoot thing wow you can kill 1-2 horde units and then? Deepstriking happens before you shoot so all tyrants, trygons etc. a far away from charge range and will just die the next turn.. Hemlocks will laugh at you when you charge them with your flyers as their weapons always auto hit so you basically allow them to fire again and other flyers just stay out of your shooting zone until the can strike your gunline with supports from ground troups. 90% of the stratagems are useless (just judging the leaked information) I think you’re right that it’s a little underwhelming for the most part compared to some of the top tier tournament lists that a few other factions can put out. But we can track with 90% of the armies in the game, even at their best competitive level. It’s all about Alpha strike mitigation, and we can do that really well with all of our alternative deployment options. You spoke about not being able to charge after chewing through a screen. Normally, I’d agree with you. But we have a Swarmlord, who for a lot cheaper, can be podded in now. So that isn’t a big issue any more. Previously, our issue was that even though we could get a lot of turn 1 charge attempts, they were against chaff units that didn’t matter (and 9” charges are tough to pass consistently). Now, Swarmlord can move a unit into range, and tbh I think I’m taking GSC Stealers in addition to Tyranid Stealers for the awesome strats and psychic powers, plus cult ambush (which as someone pointed out is buffered beautifully against failure with a lictor stratagem). As far as killing the chaff units, that’s where the new dakkafex and deep striking flyrants come in. Many of the big hit debuffs are 12” or more away. So use the move a second time strat on a carnifex to get him from 17” down to 10” away. He can’t charge due to the stratagem but who cares? TLDR: we’re in a good place and I remain hopeful that with a little bit of allying, we can run with the best of them
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Post by luke1705 on Nov 1, 2017 14:01:49 GMT
Just make it short, the codex seems to be nice for beer & bretzel games but I doubt we will see more tyranid lists on the grand tournaments.. But I hope I am proving wrong but judging from the leaks I think I am unfortunately correct.. I do actually think you’re wrong about that. A skilled player could absolutely still go 4-2 or better, even at a grand tournament. In any case, let’s let the dust settle a little bit before we rush to judgement. And by let the dust settle, I mean let’s actualy get the book in our hands and play a few games
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Post by No One on Nov 1, 2017 14:05:18 GMT
He can’t charge due to the stratagem but who cares? He can't shoot either, so you .
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Post by niiai on Nov 1, 2017 14:10:30 GMT
You need to keep your terminolagy in check or at least statefy what you mean by a strong and weak codex. From what I gather you are talking about good listst to winn tournaments, and not a good codex. A good list usualy involves finding one slightly undercost unit and go to town with it. That does not comment on the rest of the codex.
By your definition, you only need to find one good list in the codex and then that is a good codex. Considering the amount of things in this codex we have not seen in other codexes we need at the very least to playtest it before coming to any judgement.
From what I can see we have gotten much more options where we where lacking before. Long ranged weapons for instance has imprived a lot. Synapse is not a big as burden as it has used to be. All in all, I am positive. :-)
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Post by goldfireendymion on Nov 1, 2017 15:09:02 GMT
Pretty excited. Shame Shrikes aren't in the codex but im still gonna use the ones I made till they're dropped from our lineup entirely in 9th or whatever (Though that'd imply they'd remove Rough Riders and CSM mounts which I doubt.). They got some indirect buffs with the weapon point changes and Behemoth Shrikes sound gross. Everything other than that seems beyond good.
Honestly, im glad there's no overbearing cheese in this dex that pigeonholes us into a small handful of strats. Chances are a lot of the current super cheese is gonna get ironed out, since 40k is no longer a static game like in 7th. Predicting tournament formats eventually are going to limit the faction detachments actually allowed. EG, no more <Imperium> detachments or <Chaos> detachments, but <Ultramarines> and <World Eaters> detachments are fine. Wouldn't even be shocked if GW just made this a thing in Matched Play. Malefic Lords are likely gonna be hit with the nerf bats come December, and I could see GW changing Smite to be a limited number of casts per turn. Heck, there's tons of rumors of our "Spiritual Liege" going up to 10 wounds and gaining a degredation table, though I still think Guilliman is one of the least overbearing and annoying gathering storm characters when it comes to list dominance. (Poor admech players always taking Cawl no matter what for example, Celestine's bizzare cheese, ANYTHING Ynarri seemingly eclipsing all 3 major Eldar factions...). We have a strong, interesting dex with tons of ways to approach playing and with old toys back from editions past as well. Heck, even options no one would have considered even remotely good in 6th or 7th are now decent.
Im definitely still hoping for our plastic LoW when our expansion cones though. War of Octarius anyone?
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Post by kopy on Nov 1, 2017 15:30:47 GMT
So, which Carnifex type will you use? Right now Stonecrushers were the obvious choice, but I hope the new biomorphs and options will make them all viable.
I'm a bit worried about AT, though. IF Stonecrushers got into combat they could obliterate even Landraiders, but I see no other option than a Tyrannofex right now?
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Post by acehilator on Nov 1, 2017 15:34:54 GMT
Depends on your local meta, but if your average opponent has at least three working braincells, melee AT is out of the question, with the possible exception of the flyrant. I think HGuard might still be our best general AT unit, with Exocrines being better against flyers. Tfex with Rupture Cannon looks promising, but hurts bad against units with -to hit.
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Post by kazetanade on Nov 1, 2017 15:37:15 GMT
seeg you can ignore the angry marine. They like to stir up trouble and get shot out of vindicator cannons and (please do not swear). The codex isnt going to go toe-to-toe with a girlyman firebase of 10 las and 10 assault cannons or whatever it is - reroll to hit and reroll to wound is too strong for our shooting. Similarly guard has a number of heavy hitters just the same in artillery and Russes. NONE of these lists took the top 10 in the recent SoCal, other than a random CSM Oblitz drop. But the game isnt a bowling planet shooting gallery. All I'm going to say is that if your sole strategy is to take your army and throw the entire thing at the enemy turn 1 and hope for the best - the problem is the player, not the codex. Seriously, some people want a "i win it all" ez button in whatever army they play. You get a number of ways to control the board at any place or time, with decent drop output, one of the more potent firebases in the damn game, one of the most lethal infantry blobs in the game, one of the more potent smite and mortal wounds output in the game, a collection of a (please do not swear) tonne of good spells, and a strategem to hold back and/or control the major issues currently plaguing the game. But of course its not enough. Go buy your DG since you think its so much stronger. You're not forced to take Nids.
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Post by kazetanade on Nov 1, 2017 15:41:51 GMT
So, which Carnifex type will you use? Right now Stonecrushers were the obvious choice, but I hope the new biomorphs and options will make them all viable. I'm a bit worried about AT, though. IF Stonecrushers got into combat they could obliterate even Landraiders, but I see no other option than a Tyrannofex right now? AT you have: 1. Genestealers with Toxin Sacs 2. Hiv Guard with Shock Cannon (Impalers is the jack of all trade but works) 3. Dropping Trygons, SL, most MRCs, OOE. anything in behemoth has a 60++% to make the charge with AG. 4. Exocrine concentrated fire is decent at taking out tanks esp at 3 dmg from strategem 5. TFex is the GodHammer. If it hits, kiss that Hemlock goodbye shortly. 6. Smite. Smite. And more smite.
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Post by faux on Nov 1, 2017 15:44:25 GMT
I think Stone Crusher Fex is still a great AT, given the new changes and stratagems he might be able to be really viable. Will have to see.
For me its Stone Crusher for Melee still and Fex for dakka if you wanted more dakka.
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