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Post by xtztxtxz on Oct 29, 2017 13:21:46 GMT
Any word on changes to Tyrannofexes and Zoanthropes / Warp Blast? Edit: are Tyrannocytes still only able to carry 1 unit?
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Post by No One on Oct 29, 2017 13:24:12 GMT
To be fair you could say re-rolling charges is useless for half the army too... Not quite...who doesn't want to charge? Exo, HG, biovore, t-fex? About it as a general thing. I mean, some load outs e.g. dakkafexes as well, and some situations/non combat stuff e.g. terv/venom/mal. But...that's probably the most generally applicable one, outside of Jormungandr. Leviathan is technically more generally applicable, but there's a lot of units that don't really care - in my last list, I had 4 units that would've wanted it as a tactic. Reroll charges? 3 of those, plus another...4/5 *shrug*) T-fex rupture cannon loves it. But...basically everything else shooting is weight of attacks (HG are the closest otherwise at 6 Edit: Misread it as per phase, not per shooting, so exo's pretty happy with it to), and would likely benefit more from reroll 1s (provided the 'doesn't move' caveat isn't an issue i.e. basically useless on dakkafexes, which this doesn't really help). Melee...yeah, it'd get somewhere there with most MCs, since there's less weight of attacks (flyrant/BL would be way better of with Gorgon since they already get reroll to wound). Annoys me that it's essentially useless for anything other than MCs really, though it's not terrible for HG/warriors. At least better than Hydra, which is totally useless for MCs - I see mixed Tactics being very common, since most are only going to be useful for half a list... But really, just thematically/mechanically, why? It fit with Salamanders well, it fits with Space Marines well. Nids/Leviathan? Umm, what?
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Post by almostmercury on Oct 29, 2017 13:27:15 GMT
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Post by able on Oct 29, 2017 13:27:27 GMT
ok here we go "chapter tactics" behemoth: reroll failed charges Kraken: can charge after falling back Gorgon: reroll 1s to hit for fight phase jormungandr: always have cover bonus (i'm not sure if i read this right) hydra: reroll misses against units with less models during fight phase kronos: reroll 1s to hit for shooting, IF the unit doesnt move Leviathan: looks to be the same as salamander tactic but i'm not 100% sure Neurothrope is now HQ, a character and no longer part of a zoanthrope unit. zoanthropes within 6" of a neurothrope reroll 1s for psychic tests. the spirit leech thing now only heals 1 wound for a zoanthrope unit withint 6" here's the bit lots and lots of ppl will go nuts about there are now 3 seperate carnifex entries. 1.) Carnifex 2.) Screamer killer 3.) Thornback carnifex including 2x monstrous scything talons clock in total at 83 pts.. the 2 pairs of monstrous scything talons for carnifexes are 15 pts, 1 pair is 14 pts. yes.. i know. dont ask me why. there are individual upgrades for basic carnifexes. +1BS, +1 attack on the charge, -1 to hit from enemy shooting. on the charge carnifexes and screamer killers now get +1 WS on top of the current battering ram rule screamer killers come stock with "bio plasmic scream" which is 0 points, 12" assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. 90 pts in total dont have much info on the thornback other than at the end of combat roll d6 for each enemy unit in combat with it. on 6 deal 1 mortal wound I'm going nuts at the neurothrope! At even remotely reasonable prices, it is by far our best (non forgeworld) basic HQ. We will see if it pays a premium for it's zoanthrope buff, which would be really annoying seeing as you don't really want to be paying to overlap synapse like that. Shame I don't have a legal zoanthropes unit now, but might just play them all as neurothropes! The HQ was the real bottleneck for cheap battalions for us, so this is a big list changer. Any idea what our tactic actually applies to? I'm guessing infantry and carnifex in line with other forces, and probably tyrants (?). Annoyingly*, that means not rippers either. *I'm easily annoyed Behemoth is now the king of alpha strike. Adrenal glands + reroll makes 9" fairly reliable. Kraken flyers are now pretty awesome, jumping from combat to combat without any loss of output. Gorgon's chapter tactic looks terrifying on a genestealer list, if they make it into combat. Jormungandr is meh on infantry, but wow on 3+ monsters. If it applies to carnifexes, this is your carnifex list. -1 to hit and a 2+ save makes them very robust. Hydra genestealers will chew even faster, while hormagaunts feel this buff strongest. Against characters and vehicles, even 2 warriors will proc the buff, so could be good in those situations. Kronos is hive guard... enough said. Exocrine if it applies to them too. Leviathan is alright, but we don't really have any great places to put those rerolls. Even our heavy weapons are typically multiple shots, limiting the use of rerolling one of them. In contrast, a tac squad with a lascannon will reroll the lascannon. It is only really biovores that this 'helps', but they don't really care about missing anyway. The carnifex changes all look good, and I particularly like the +1BS option. Jormungandr gunboat fexes with spores look solid while killy! Screamer killers look cheap enough to be worthwhile too. Nothing game changing here, so I'm not over excited about these, but all solid changes in the correct direction (survivability per point was where I thought they fell down before, finding it difficult to get to the enemy).
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Post by seeg on Oct 29, 2017 13:29:48 GMT
tyranofex is 185 pts. rupture cannon is 47 or 49. rupture cannon profile is heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage. thats all. no more funky "if it hits both..blablabla"
exocrine with all wargear is 210 or something like that. minor points decrease venomthropes and zoans are still fielded as units of 3 venomthropes when in grp of 3 also affect monsters. when in a grp of 6, the aura becomes 6". the carnifex biomorpth that gives -1 to hit to enemy shooters does not stack with venomthrope. said biomorph is 10 pts.
genestealers remain the same. but have an option of getting +1 armour but they lose swift and deadly. (wtf GW)
there is a relic for any character that gives either +1S, +1A or +1T during fight phase. roll dice to see which buff haruspex is something around 220 pts with wargear. not sure if any rules changed
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Post by bolk on Oct 29, 2017 13:31:53 GMT
It was asked about for the FAQ and not changed then, so presumably it's working as intended. Or not worth changing if the codex was going to fix it anyway. They had maybe realised at that point that nerfing the unit would get taken badly, and removing them was not required for balance purposes. That is different from working as intended. It could easily have been a mistake that they chose to run with for a while. This is particularly true as it would require an errata, rather than a clarification. The rules as written clearly give us free rending claws, unlike the spinefist case where the price was just missing. I could see them reserving errata for things which don't function (overwatching biovores) or for balance purposes (commissars), neither of which free rending claws fell into. I don't think we can clearly read their intentions from that FAQ, so I don't think it is good evidence that we will be able to keep them. I hope to be proven wrong, but can see it going either way. Considering the cost for a Flyrant, I don't see any problems with MRC at 0 pts. It's nowhere near OP. I don't get why people think this is such a big thing. We should rather be thinking about that they fix the other weapon options, which cost too much for what they do.
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Post by Kitane on Oct 29, 2017 13:33:14 GMT
Rupture Cannon: heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage
I really hope T-fex still gets to fire twice. This might be the first time a Rupture T-fex could be an actual threat.
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Post by bolk on Oct 29, 2017 13:38:38 GMT
Psychic scream, WC5, Targets nearest enemy within 18" does d3 mortal wounds. if the target is a psyker, also roll 2d6. if the value is higher than the enemy psyker's leadership, the enemy psyker loses 1 spell at random paroxysm WC5, target enemy unit within 12" of the psyker fights last. (there's a whole big ass block of text here talking about exceptions and what not) *cant remember the name* target unit within 36" of the psyker essentially gains synapse here's a bunch of random (please do not swear) old one is is now 9 wounds. 200 pts. hits of 6 generate one additional attack. can be equipped with a scything talons relic that +1s ap-3, 3dmg, +1 attack. uses behemoth warlord trait swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait hivefleet gorgon warlord trait: enemy units within 3" of the warlord at the end of the turn take 1 mortal wound each on a 4plus hivefleet behemoth warlord trait: on 6's to wound he deals an additional damage hivefleet leviathan warlord trait: after deployment but before start of game, redeploy your warlord tyrannocyte is now 100 pts. 5pts for each deathspitter. hivefleet kronos stratagem: 2cp, when an enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell, make it use only 1 dice to roll hivefleet behemoth stratagem: 2cp, choose on unit. roll a d6 for each charging model. for each 6 deal 1 mortal wound to the enemy unit it charged. for monsters its on a roll of 2+ 2cp stratagem: choose one unit. at the end of the shooting phase it shoots again. (cannot target monsters) maleceptors total pointage including wargear is 172. T7, 12W OOE 9 wounds? Sweet, even with the big points increase. OOE with Carnifex wrecker group is even more viable now, with Carnifexes even cheaper.
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Post by seeg on Oct 29, 2017 13:40:01 GMT
hive tyrants can still take MRC warp blast is the same except at a unit of 6 it deals d3+3 instead of d3+d3 neurothrope is cheap as balls. i want to say 45 but i'm not 100% certain. the jormungandr stratagem is one giant cluster of weird ass sounding things. to give u an idea. before deployment u choose a unit(not monster) to deepstrike. it can deepstrike per normal rules but only from a 'tunnel'. then they go on to talk about what a 'tunnel' is. ravener, trygon and....one more thing... i cant remember... makes 'tunnels' didnt manage to see the tyrannocyte transport rules. sorry genestealers are still 12pts in total. 10 pts for body, 2 pts for rending claws
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Post by seeg on Oct 29, 2017 13:40:45 GMT
Rupture Cannon: heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage I really hope T-fex still gets to fire twice. This might be the first time a Rupture T-fex could be an actual threat. yes.. exocrine and T-fex still get to fire twice if they stay still
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Post by able on Oct 29, 2017 13:41:55 GMT
Or not worth changing if the codex was going to fix it anyway. They had maybe realised at that point that nerfing the unit would get taken badly, and removing them was not required for balance purposes. That is different from working as intended. It could easily have been a mistake that they chose to run with for a while. This is particularly true as it would require an errata, rather than a clarification. The rules as written clearly give us free rending claws, unlike the spinefist case where the price was just missing. I could see them reserving errata for things which don't function (overwatching biovores) or for balance purposes (commissars), neither of which free rending claws fell into. I don't think we can clearly read their intentions from that FAQ, so I don't think it is good evidence that we will be able to keep them. I hope to be proven wrong, but can see it going either way. Considering the cost for a Flyrant, I don't see any problems with MRC at 0 pts. It's nowhere near OP. I don't get why people think this is such a big thing. We should rather be thinking about that they fix the other weapon options, which cost too much for what they do. The problem is that if a flyrant is balanced with MRC at 0pts, it is not when paying for other options. The point I was making was that they may not have changed it before because 0pt claws was not unbalanced, despite it being a mistake. Given that the codex is a chance to rebalance completely, and that the tyrant is getting significantly tougher at no points increase, previous statements about power go out the window. The other weapons certainly did cost too much, but we can't say that now with the changes to the tyrant.
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Post by No One on Oct 29, 2017 13:45:28 GMT
swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait ...Please tell me they didn't give the Leviathan Keyword to the guy who can come from any fleet and (to the best of my recollection) has only showed up with Behemoth in the fluff? That's...not terrible, but is pretty bad as a stock trait for something that pretty much needs to play around either t-guard/mal (and thus can't redeploy elsewhere - or would be massively telegraphed where you're redeploying to, essentially invalidating it as a strategy. Does give you an extra drop advantage if you drop him first to see what your opponent's doing I guess?) or is in a t-cyte to survive. Not bad. Horde charge only (2 CP for 1 MW? Hahah, pass), but 5 MW for 2 CP for a 30 unit charge is potentially pretty good - would depend on if they have to get within 1" themselves though, since that's basically impossible for the full 30, especially onto stuff that actually cares about MW i.e. low model count. Trygon devilgants anyone? Also makes HG more appealing over exos. Any idea what our tactic actually applies to? I'm guessing infantry and carnifex in line with other forces, and probably tyrants (?). Annoyingly*, that means not rippers either. *I'm easily annoyed Everyone but marines have got it on everyone (or basically everyone). I'd join you in being annoyed.
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Post by seeg on Oct 29, 2017 13:48:14 GMT
hivefleet tactics apply to everything
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Post by seeg on Oct 29, 2017 13:49:11 GMT
swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait ...Please tell me they didn't give the Leviathan Keyword to the guy who can come from any fleet and (to the best of my recollection) has only showed up with Behemoth in the fluff? they did NOT give him the leviathan key word
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teodo
Genestealer
Posts: 82
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Post by teodo on Oct 29, 2017 13:50:06 GMT
Rupture Cannon: heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage I really hope T-fex still gets to fire twice. This might be the first time a Rupture T-fex could be an actual threat. yes.. exocrine and T-fex still get to fire twice if they stay still Damn. That makes them better at shooting than mechanicus crawlers. Even though those are cheaper, I might actually throw in a tyrannofex for ripping those tanks apart
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