New ITC Missions

[mattblowers]

Have you all seen the new ITC missions? So far I'm really liking them.

Here's the skinny:

1. You score every turn, both at the end of your turn and the battle round.
2. You score one point at the end of your turn for holding/contesting an objective and one point for killing a unit.
3. You score one point at the end of the battle round for controlling more than your opponent and killing more than your opponent.
4. There are tertiary points of which you pick 3 at the beginning of the game.
5. You keep your points even if tabled.
6. You score 4 points per turn for the remainder of the game if you table your opponent.

That's basically the game. It should keep people engaged after the dice go a bit sidewise and gives real incentive for playing a tight loss over a giving up and allowing max points. Theoretically you could get tabled by your opponent in a late rate and still have more points, though that would be rare. Be interesting to hear how it effects the meta.

[Hive Tyrant Qiln]

Link?

[mattblowers]

Google is a wonderful thing.

FLG podcast

It's in the shows notes how to download them. They are still draft. I'll post a link to the Drive document when I get home this evening.

[parzaius]

Direct Link:
docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit?usp=sharing

Some neat alternate scoring methods. I do like "you keep your points even after being tabled" and that kill points are on a turn by turn basis, rather than a unit by unit one.

Personally, I like the bit of randomness in the objective cards, though there are so many of them, you can definitely get screwed by hitting goals that the opponent doesn't even have (flyers, psykers, monsters, etc). It'd be nice if each player could customize their objective deck to a degree, like in Shadespire. Focus on the things your army is good at, but still have the random element of which particular goal pops up any given turn.

[mattblowers]

Oct 18, 2017 13:37:21 GMT parzaius said:

Direct Link:
docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks.

I think these missions equally reward speed, board control, and the ability to shift your opponent. Lots of ways to the win. Min/max becomes a liability.

[N.I.B.]

Oct 18, 2017 13:37:21 GMT parzaius said:

Personally, I like the bit of randomness in the objective cards, though there are so many of them, you can definitely get screwed by hitting goals that the opponent doesn't even have (flyers, psykers, monsters, etc).

In our tournaments we allow you to immediately discard impossible cards and replace them.

[kazetanade]

did get to look at the draft and like the look of them. Screams "BALANCE LIST OR GTFO", because instead of having only 1 major way to win there are like 4 or 5 different equally viable ways to do it. Lets you play a host of different strategies.

Also doesnt penalize you for certain strategies like MSU or etc, which is frickin painful in a RAW kill point game.

[mattblowers]

Oct 20, 2017 9:46:35 GMT kazetanade said:

did get to look at the draft and like the look of them. Screams "BALANCE LIST OR GTFO", because instead of having only 1 major way to win there are like 4 or 5 different equally viable ways to do it. Lets you play a host of different strategies.

Also doesnt penalize you for certain strategies like MSU or etc, which is frickin painful in a RAW kill point game.

After a few games under my belt I can say that I really like the new missions. I hated the rolling mechanic as a few turns of bad rolls and you get really behind. This format punishes MSU armies because of kill points. It also gives incentive through Headhunter secondary objective to kill character spam which makes your opponent just a bit more cautious.

[kazetanade]

Oct 20, 2017 12:10:43 GMT mattblowers said:

Oct 20, 2017 9:46:35 GMT kazetanade said:

did get to look at the draft and like the look of them. Screams "BALANCE LIST OR GTFO", because instead of having only 1 major way to win there are like 4 or 5 different equally viable ways to do it. Lets you play a host of different strategies.

Also doesnt penalize you for certain strategies like MSU or etc, which is frickin painful in a RAW kill point game.

After a few games under my belt I can say that I really like the new missions. I hated the rolling mechanic as a few turns of bad rolls and you get really behind. This format punishes MSU armies because of kill points. It also gives incentive through Headhunter secondary objective to kill character spam which makes your opponent just a bit more cautious.

I thought the kill points was limited due to only 1 point for killing more than your opponent? Previous killpoints is 1 per unit which is way more pinishing.

[mattblowers]

Oct 20, 2017 12:15:21 GMT kazetanade said:

I thought the kill points was limited due to only 1 point for killing more than your opponent? Previous killpoints is 1 per unit which is way more pinishing.

You get one for killing a unit on your turn and 1 for killing more units than your opponent at the end of the round. It's pretty easy to get the point for killing more when your opponent has a bunch of small units.

[kazetanade]

2 points is still less punishing than 10 though. Unless its 1 per unit so 10, while getting an additional 1 for killing more, in which case I go fuuuuuck.

[mattblowers]

Turn 1: you get 1 point for an objective and 1 point for killing. 2 points. Your opponent does the same.

End of battleround you killed more units than your opponent and you're now up 3-2.

Turn 2: 6-4.

Turn 3: 9-6.

Turn 4: 12-8.

Turn 5: 15-10.

Turn 6: 18-12.

That's 6 points your are up by. They have to crush it on secondary to make it up or score more objectives than you on every turn. As we all know, killing things is by far the easiest thing in this edition, so I think that an MSU army will struggle unless they are all obsec and you are not. In that case, go second and blow then off enough objectives to prevent it even one turn and your chances of winning really increase. These missions really level the playing field. I love playing fast counter punching lists and if you do that and go second you have a real chance to steal the game from a superior codex.

[kazetanade]

Oh, you mean you can only score one objective a turn too?

Hmm. That's a damper on my initial assumptions. MSU is not good at protracted fights.

Doesnt this make going second way more advantageous than going first? Since you never need to be proactive, just react to what the enemy is doing.

[able]

Looks good, lots of interesting quirks to it.

Kingslayer, headhunter, and big game hunter can get you 6VP off pask alone. Might be good enough to prevent him coming. He is just that good though, so maybe not.

Kingslayer easily procs 3 points against a tyrant, and 4 on swarmie. Girlyman is a 9w monster, so only gives 3... You can get the last one if he gets up again though. Tervigon is a gift to your enemy, especially as you don't want to be spawning more units anyway.

AM squads are now annoyingly placed at 9 models (8+HWT), preventing the reaper procing on them. Reaper would be great against AM squads otherwise. Now AM squads are pretty good VP denyers.

The sporelord no longer works.  The enemy gets to decide who kingslayer applies to. 

If you are going second, mawlocks can easily get you behind enemy lines points and recon. Behind enemy lines can make mawlocks even more of a priority target. 4 1 wound mawlocs is 4 points unless you are tabled*. They are also easily kept safe if the enemy goes big game hunter and you have no other 10w models. Put them underground and leave them there till T6! Might be better to use them, but worth remembering.

* It will probably get changed, but in that draft they changed the meaning of tabled. A unit off the board is not destroyed, so by the definition in brackets in that sheet, you are not tabled if you have a mawloc sitting off the board (provided it has been on the board at some point). Nobody will be killing anything, so they will only get 2 VP from objective control, plus mission objectives per turn. At the end they will not auto get their secondaries.

10W characters are an even bigger liability, especially if you have multiple of them. killing 4 tyrants can grant 11 out of 12 secondary points straight up. If you bring 2 exocrine then big game hunter is strong against you with even a single tyrant. Broodlord looks like our only viable core HQ unless we are ok with giving up lots of secondarys.

Single turn damage is now granting less than sustained damage. Killing 4 units in one turn is not as effective as killing one a turn. Against units without back loaded offenses, it might be better to leave single targets alive to ensure you get the unit kill points in later turns than pushing for the more units killed point this turn. AM squads again are well placed here, because the heavy weapon will be the last to go. You need to wipe them out to limit their output, which limits your options.

If you are going for something, go all out. Character spam is giving away headhunter, but once those 4 pts are given up you can lose all the characters you like. Likewise, 4 10w models is a bad idea, but 10 might not be. I don't think we have seen the end of the carpark.

Going second has serious advantages. Knowing how many units you have to kill to secure the point lets you kill as required, and then maybe set up targets for next turn. You can react to contest objectives too, meaning you never have to overkill to secure the comparative points.

Biovores look as hilarious as always, particularly backed up by spore mine screens. They can give us a huge amount of map control without the VP vulnerability of other throwaway screen units. Talon warriors look decent as well, simply because they can absorb so much fire without giving away points. I would seriously consider 9 model warrior and shrike units paired with skyslasher and ripper swarms as my main force, with hiveguard and biovores for the damage. Killing even a single (scoring) unit per round can be made tricky, as the rippers bring all the joy of deep striking conscripts but without the reaper procs! A single exocrine, or maybe 2, would bring the fire while not gifting too many points. A trygon would be great for bringing the warriors, but I don't think 3 big game hunter targets is a good idea. 6 exocrines behind warriors though...

9 man scout squads and dreadnaughts would be my first though of a strong list core, because the only secondary points against it are the map control ones and thousand cuts. The scouts are great at filling the map before the start, preventing any alpha strike shenanigans (except from mawlocs). One or two vehicles would fit, as would a couple of characters. Jumping almost dead squads into a landraider looks like a solid plan if you can keep it alive, which would make a techie one of my HQs.

[mattblowers]

Oct 22, 2017 17:00:07 GMT able said:

Looks good, lots of interesting quirks to it.

Kingslayer, headhunter, and big game hunter can get you 6VP off pask alone. Might be good enough to prevent him coming. He is just that good though, so maybe not.

Kingslayer easily procs 3 points against a tyrant, and 4 on swarmie. Girlyman is a 9w monster, so only gives 3... You can get the last one if he gets up again though. Tervigon is a gift to your enemy, especially as you don't want to be spawning more units anyway.

AM squads are now annoyingly placed at 9 models (8+HWT), preventing the reaper procing on them. Reaper would be great against AM squads otherwise. Now AM squads are pretty good VP denyers.

The sporelord no longer works.  The enemy gets to decide who kingslayer applies to. 

If you are going second, mawlocks can easily get you behind enemy lines points and recon. Behind enemy lines can make mawlocks even more of a priority target. 4 1 wound mawlocs is 4 points unless you are tabled*. They are also easily kept safe if the enemy goes big game hunter and you have no other 10w models. Put them underground and leave them there till T6! Might be better to use them, but worth remembering.

* It will probably get changed, but in that draft they changed the meaning of tabled. A unit off the board is not destroyed, so by the definition in brackets in that sheet, you are not tabled if you have a mawloc sitting off the board (provided it has been on the board at some point). Nobody will be killing anything, so they will only get 2 VP from objective control, plus mission objectives per turn. At the end they will not auto get their secondaries.

10W characters are an even bigger liability, especially if you have multiple of them. killing 4 tyrants can grant 11 out of 12 secondary points straight up. If you bring 2 exocrine then big game hunter is strong against you with even a single tyrant. Broodlord looks like our only viable core HQ unless we are ok with giving up lots of secondarys.

Single turn damage is now granting less than sustained damage. Killing 4 units in one turn is not as effective as killing one a turn. Against units without back loaded offenses, it might be better to leave single targets alive to ensure you get the unit kill points in later turns than pushing for the more units killed point this turn. AM squads again are well placed here, because the heavy weapon will be the last to go. You need to wipe them out to limit their output, which limits your options.

If you are going for something, go all out. Character spam is giving away headhunter, but once those 4 pts are given up you can lose all the characters you like. Likewise, 4 10w models is a bad idea, but 10 might not be. I don't think we have seen the end of the carpark.

Going second has serious advantages. Knowing how many units you have to kill to secure the point lets you kill as required, and then maybe set up targets for next turn. You can react to contest objectives too, meaning you never have to overkill to secure the comparative points.

Biovores look as hilarious as always, particularly backed up by spore mine screens. They can give us a huge amount of map control without the VP vulnerability of other throwaway screen units. Talon warriors look decent as well, simply because they can absorb so much fire without giving away points. I would seriously consider 9 model warrior and shrike units paired with skyslasher and ripper swarms as my main force, with hiveguard and biovores for the damage. Killing even a single (scoring) unit per round can be made tricky, as the rippers bring all the joy of deep striking conscripts but without the reaper procs! A single exocrine, or maybe 2, would bring the fire while not gifting too many points. A trygon would be great for bringing the warriors, but I don't think 3 big game hunter targets is a good idea. 6 exocrines behind warriors though...

9 man scout squads and dreadnaughts would be my first though of a strong list core, because the only secondary points against it are the map control ones and thousand cuts. The scouts are great at filling the map before the start, preventing any alpha strike shenanigans (except from mawlocs). One or two vehicles would fit, as would a couple of characters. Jumping almost dead squads into a landraider looks like a solid plan if you can keep it alive, which would make a techie one of my HQs.

Pretty good analysis. I don't understand what you are seeing with being tabled. The way I read it you can still get tabled and keep your points but I don't see they changed that having no models on the board means that you are not tabled.

One difference I see between our approaches, I prefer to build lists that let me decide how I will score my points instead of trying to deny my opponent points. Your points of staying just under the unit numbers is a good one though. As is going all out once you pass a certain number. If you are going to take 4 characters, there is not reason not to take as many as you want. Same with mosters and 10+ wound models. My mawloc list has 8 12 wound models so I'm not too worried about it. Going too far the other way gives up kill points easily. You might give up the points for them killing 10+ wound models (to a maximum of 4 points), but if they struggle a bit to do it, I have a good shot at winning by killing more units than they do each turn for 6 points maximum.