Death Guard and battle-forged armies

[russellr]

Hi all,

I get confused about battle-forged armies.

Detachments, say Patrol, have a Restriction, "All units must be from the same Faction."

The Death Guard book gives bonuses if the army is Battle-forged.

So ... what exactly determines if units are from the same Faction? Do all keywords have to match up, or just some?

Many units say Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard

Some say Chaos, Nurgle, Daemon

Can they be mixed inside the same Detachment for it to still be a Battle-forged army?

Are there any other rules sources that I missed that help work this out?

If they can be in a Battle-forged army together, can other units like a Great Unclean One be added and still be Battle-forgec?

If they can't be Battle-forged, do the daemons need to be summoned in order to take part in the battle?

If hoping there's something small I missed that will clarify everything ...

Cheers

[Hive Bahamut]

At the start it seemed like they were going detachment specific. Now that is clearly not the case. Imperial/Chaos soup for everyone!

[russellr]

Ah there's something else I missed.
In the DG codex, page 96 mentions "all Infantry and Hellbrute units in Death Guard Detachments gains this ability" and "all Troops units in Death Guard Detachments gain this ability."

So essentially those two abilities require all units in the Detachment to have the DG faction keyword to get the benefit, right? And this makes it silly to put daemons in the DG Detachment, so you'd basically need to mix the daemons with an HQ choice from the index to make up a detachment, probably a herald.

But nothing stops you from mixing contents from the books, as long as the Detachments don't mix it up.

I think my reasoning is right there?

[autoxidation]

Sept 17, 2017 21:05:26 GMT russellr said:

Ah there's something else I missed.
In the DG codex, page 96 mentions "all Infantry and Hellbrute units in Death Guard Detachments gains this ability" and "all Troops units in Death Guard Detachments gain this ability."

So essentially those two abilities require all units in the Detachment to have the DG faction keyword to get the benefit, right? And this makes it silly to put daemons in the DG Detachment, so you'd basically need to mix the daemons with an HQ choice from the index to make up a detachment, probably a herald.

But nothing stops you from mixing contents from the books, as long as the Detachments don't mix it up.

I think my reasoning is right there?

Yes that is correct.

[gigasnail]

Keep the daemons in their own detachment and you're good. It's faction keyword specific. It's really not as complex as it looks at first.

[gigasnail]

Let me qualify that:

While daemons and deathguard in the same detachment are certainly battle forged, what you don't get are the army traits from DG or objective secured for your troops.

Keep them in their own detachments, and you *do* get those things.

[russellr]

Cool thanks guys.

Seems weird that there's units in the DG codex that can't be used in the same detachment, unless you want to screw your own army.

[gigasnail]

Because you can summon. Same thing in the CSM codex.

[LordPathos]

Just remember everything in your army must share a faction keyword and every unit in a detachment must share their own faction keyword as well. These keywords do not have to be the same.
Example: you could take anything from the chaos index, CSM, daemons, whatever in a single detachment. That could be a battle forged list because you choose <CHAOS> as the faction keyword. But if you do this, you lose any Legion traits. So instead you can put all CSM with the same Legion in 1 detachment, put all your daemons in another. You are still battle forged because army faction is <CHAOS> and you get your legion traits because your CSM detachment is all the same <LEGION>.

[N.I.B.]

I heard that Death Guard has a really powerful special rule, or was it a stratagem? They can pick a friendly unit and infiltrate it within 9" of enemy units, and then move as normal and assault. 20 Berzerkers charging anywhere on the table, turn 1.

Like Hive Commander, only much more powerful (don't need a 300pts easy killable model with a 138pts transport tax to pull off).

[LordPathos]

If it is a DG rule, especially a Stratagem, Berserkers won't be able to use it.

[No One]

N.I.B. said:

I heard that Death Guard has a really powerful special rule, or was it a stratagem? They can pick a friendly unit and infiltrate it within 9" of enemy units, and then move as normal and assault. 20 Berzerkers charging anywhere on the table, turn 1.

That's not DG, that's Raven Guard Alpha Legion. (Considering Ad Mech got -1 and infiltrate strat as well, that seems to be a 'universal' option).

[acehilator]

Sept 19, 2017 12:06:40 GMT N.I.B. said:

I heard that Death Guard has a really powerful special rule, or was it a stratagem? They can pick a friendly unit and infiltrate it within 9" of enemy units, and then move as normal and assault. 20 Berzerkers charging anywhere on the table, turn 1.

Like Hive Commander, only much more powerful (don't need a 300pts easy killable model with a 138pts transport tax to pull off).

Not a DG ability. I am pretty sure it doesn't exist in this form anywhere. Only thing that comes to mind is the Alpha Legion exclusive stratagem "Forward Operatives" (infantry unit can set up anywhere on the table during deployment, more than 9 inches away from enemy models).

/edit: And ninja'd by No One. I am really interested if they are going to give the -1 to hit if more than 12 inches away rule to a Hive Fleet, or the Infiltrate stratagem. Or the fight twice stratagem, lol.

[N.I.B.]

Sept 19, 2017 14:31:26 GMT acehilator said:

Sept 19, 2017 12:06:40 GMT N.I.B. said:

I heard that Death Guard has a really powerful special rule, or was it a stratagem? They can pick a friendly unit and infiltrate it within 9" of enemy units, and then move as normal and assault. 20 Berzerkers charging anywhere on the table, turn 1.

Like Hive Commander, only much more powerful (don't need a 300pts easy killable model with a 138pts transport tax to pull off).

Not a DG ability. I am pretty sure it doesn't exist in this form anywhere. Only thing that comes to mind is the Alpha Legion exclusive stratagem "Forward Operatives" (infantry unit can set up anywhere on the table during deployment, more than 9 inches away from enemy models).

Yeah that's the one. Not during deployment though, it's just before the first turn (presumably after roll-off to go first, so when you deploy them you know whether you have first or second turn). And you can use it on several infantry units. Like 2x20 Berzerkers, don't forget to walk them after deploying 9" away. For a measly 1 CP per unit.

[bolk]

Hmm, so if I take a Bloodletters unit in a World Eaters legion the army doesn't get the legion trait. Totally misunderstood that one.