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Post by jamierk on Jan 30, 2018 5:41:25 GMT
Always hit on 3s is huge, 48" range with one of their guns shooting without needing LOS. Mainly though its the fact that you can put them in a wave serpent and/or the webway (two units, i'd put one in a serpent and one in webway), drop out of serpent (even after moving it with a strat), seer cast guide on a unit, plus jinx on target, then Yvraine casts her soulburst to get one unit to shoot first, then both units shoot in shooting phase, doing a serious tonne of damage on important targets, then you can even spend another strat to get back in the wave serpent. They can also withdraw from combat and shoot with a strategy, if you manage to tag them (which you really shouldn't if they play their rangers right). If they are in the serpent, I can't see any unit we have with the power to kill the serpent before combat in a turn, so they pile out of the wave serpent and do it all over again next turn. Also beware they have another strat which allows a unit to shoot when you finish deepstriking your units, lost a flyrant to that. So they have multiple ways of not being alpha striked or beta striked for that matter, they shoot several times a turn on average and always hit on 3s, so no horror or malanthrope protection. It's pretty tough to play against if the Eldar player knows what he's doing. I'm working on strategies involving using gargoyles or hormagaunts to surround wave serpents, then smack them down with flyrants and prevent them disembarking. Worked well for some wraithguard i needed to clear.
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Post by tomcaet on Jan 30, 2018 14:56:44 GMT
Always hit on 3s is huge, 48" range with one of their guns shooting without needing LOS. Mainly though its the fact that you can put them in a wave serpent and/or the webway (two units, i'd put one in a serpent and one in webway), drop out of serpent (even after moving it with a strat), seer cast guide on a unit, plus jinx on target, then Yvraine casts her soulburst to get one unit to shoot first, then both units shoot in shooting phase, doing a serious tonne of damage on important targets, then you can even spend another strat to get back in the wave serpent. They can also withdraw from combat and shoot with a strategy, if you manage to tag them (which you really shouldn't if they play their rangers right). If they are in the serpent, I can't see any unit we have with the power to kill the serpent before combat in a turn, so they pile out of the wave serpent and do it all over again next turn. Also beware they have another strat which allows a unit to shoot when you finish deepstriking your units, lost a flyrant to that. So they have multiple ways of not being alpha striked or beta striked for that matter, they shoot several times a turn on average and always hit on 3s, so no horror or malanthrope protection. It's pretty tough to play against if the Eldar player knows what he's doing. I'm working on strategies involving using gargoyles or hormagaunts to surround wave serpents, then smack them down with flyrants and prevent them disembarking. Worked well for some wraithguard i needed to clear. On disembarking and embarking - I noticed they have something that lets them move after shooting, but I don't think that anything lets them override the core rule forbidding embarking and disembarking in the same turn. Noticed that because of Ratlings, who have an ability almost exactly like that. |
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Post by hannibal on Jan 30, 2018 19:22:16 GMT
Thanks Jamierk and tomcat,
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Post by hannibal on Jan 30, 2018 19:23:51 GMT
Look at their stats. Then look at their point cost. Then look again at their stats and don't forget the part where they always hit on 3+. If I had their stats and their points cost I wouldn't be asking. Thanks for your helpful response. |
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Post by jamierk on Jan 30, 2018 19:29:17 GMT
Always hit on 3s is huge, 48" range with one of their guns shooting without needing LOS. Mainly though its the fact that you can put them in a wave serpent and/or the webway (two units, i'd put one in a serpent and one in webway), drop out of serpent (even after moving it with a strat), seer cast guide on a unit, plus jinx on target, then Yvraine casts her soulburst to get one unit to shoot first, then both units shoot in shooting phase, doing a serious tonne of damage on important targets, then you can even spend another strat to get back in the wave serpent. They can also withdraw from combat and shoot with a strategy, if you manage to tag them (which you really shouldn't if they play their rangers right). If they are in the serpent, I can't see any unit we have with the power to kill the serpent before combat in a turn, so they pile out of the wave serpent and do it all over again next turn. Also beware they have another strat which allows a unit to shoot when you finish deepstriking your units, lost a flyrant to that. So they have multiple ways of not being alpha striked or beta striked for that matter, they shoot several times a turn on average and always hit on 3s, so no horror or malanthrope protection. It's pretty tough to play against if the Eldar player knows what he's doing. I'm working on strategies involving using gargoyles or hormagaunts to surround wave serpents, then smack them down with flyrants and prevent them disembarking. Worked well for some wraithguard i needed to clear. On disembarking and embarking - I noticed they have something that lets them move after shooting, but I don't think that anything lets them override the core rule forbidding embarking and disembarking in the same turn. Noticed that because of Ratlings, who have an ability almost exactly like that. From memory how they do it is they disembark the first unit of reapers, move the serpent to where it needs to go to shoot, deep strike the second unit of reapers then embark the new unit back into the transport with 'fire and fade' strat. The BRB says something like a unit cannot disembark and embark on the same turn, which I think is ambiguous as to whether it means the same unit or a different one, but that's how Eldar players are doing it (pointy eared scum ;-) ). |
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Post by gigasnail on Jan 31, 2018 4:29:00 GMT
yeah that's probably not how that's supposed to work.
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Post by Jabberwocky on Jan 31, 2018 7:45:17 GMT
Competitive Eldar lists will generally have 3x3 reapers and a big squad of 7-10 to use guide/soulburst on.
They truly are difficult to counter. Personally I'd try and wipe them with biovores if I had the models. Only the exarch can get the Los ignoring gun and it's not great. Most will just use their normal missile launcher style gun.
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Post by nackanid on Mar 8, 2018 6:20:37 GMT
Hey! Never played Eldar but it seems like I have a very nice time playing them from the sound of this thread, haha.
Strats can't we stop, what can we stop? With the Kronos-stratagem I mean. Which psy-power is most important to stop, accourdning to you?
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Post by Jabberwocky on Mar 17, 2018 22:54:23 GMT
It will depend on the situation, but arguably Quicken or Doom.
Most powers are force multipliers, Doom being the biggest of them all.
Quicken working or not will determine whether an objective is taken, a combat is made, a line is broken, etc.
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Post by brassangel on Mar 18, 2018 21:17:20 GMT
We can't really stop their psychic powers when they are most important to the Eldar player because they have the ability to cast them at 36" away for a turn. We won't get into deny range.
I don't often see the competitive lists using the Wave Serpent. They simply deep strike them in so they can't be Alpha'd turn one. For their points, they have about 3 too many rules.
Every army with a codex has juice right now, but they pay for it. Either by having to take tax units in detachments, only being able to do something superpowered once per game, or by paying CP's for a combo of stratagems. The Reaper package can triple it's output without even doubling it's points cost, can avoid an opposing alpha-strike, can weaken an enemy's toughest thing for free before shooting at it, can never have it's output weakened, and the only thing they have to spend on is a single CP to get the unit back out of line of sight. Even when some armies try to cleverly drop in, they screen them 18" out (so nothing can DS within 9" of them) with Guardians that can have 3+ invulns for a turn. Tyranids have slightly better odds with Mawlocs and Biovores being able to get mortal wounds nearby, and we can even use a sneaky GSC package to Cult Ambush, but again, they can stack their screens just right. The good players do, anyway.
And whoever said the Exarch gun wasn't good is insane. It's 8 shots, sometimes 16 in a turn, and will mulch any infantry that gets close to the Reapers.
Trust me, the whole package - alongside Ynnari - is in the FAQ crosshairs. We are thankfully in an era where problem, or even bad/unplayable units don't stay that way for long. It just sucks for the people playing against it all next week at the 40k Champs at Adepticon.
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Post by crazydiamond on May 1, 2018 16:46:00 GMT
Something not mentioned yet that I've ran into. Minus to hit.
My brother is a DE player but in literally 20 min threw together an eldar list that wrecked me. Everything had -1 to hit when attacking from more than 12" away. He had a stratagem that further gave something -1 more to hit after I targeted it for attacks. Psychic power that gave something -1 to hit. Warp spiders field that is -1 to hit. Flier that is -1 to hit. And a bunch of infantry that were -1 to hit and can generate more attacks on successful hits that could further generate more attacks up to like 3, and he could give them re-roll fail hits. Also rangers that were -1 to hit and +2 for cover saves.
I was -2 to hit everything unless I was within 12" and even then he could pop the strata on whatever I targeted. That means a -3 on something over 12" or even -4 with psychic. You don't always hit on 6s, only wound, so they can essentially render most of your army shooting useless when you need 6s or even impossible 7s.
Sure you can take enhanced senses on a couple things, but you don't expect to need a bunch of it. An all comers list, I wouldn't know how to counter this well. This was my first game vs eldar in 8th though. I also brought a shooting heavy army. Melee heavy would have been better, but a lot of the minus to hit also counts in melee afaik.
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Post by Bellator on May 1, 2018 23:00:56 GMT
I believe the stratagem is the only hit penalty that works in melee. Rangers are 3+ in cover, unless he used the psychic power Protect; which only affects one unit. Conceal only affects a single unit, and as all codex powers can only be cast once per turn.
I suggest asking to borrow his army for a game to get a handle on where the penalties come from and what they affect.
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Post by Bellator on May 2, 2018 16:21:30 GMT
Now that I can give the codex a hard look, here are the hit penalties eldar have access to.
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Rangers have a -1 built in, and have a 3+ save in cover. Ranged only.
Warp Spiders have a ability that gives them a -1, with a 1/36 chance of losing a warp spider. Ranged only.
Hemlock Wraithfighters and Crimson Hunters have -1 from hard to hit, like most factions fliers. Ranged only, but can only be charged by units that FLY.
The 4 varieties of grav-tanks can take vectored engines for a -1 when they advance, but realistically only Wave Serpents can use them properly as the other 3 have heavy weapons. Ranged only.
Alaitoc gives everything a -1 if you shoot them from over 12" away. Ranged only.
The psychic power Conceal gives a single unit of infantry or bikes -1 for a turn. Ranged only.
The stratagem, Lightning-Fast Reactions, costs 2 CP and gives a unit of infantry or a unit with FLY -1 (almost everything except wraiths). Lasts until the end of phase, and can be used in the shooting or fight phase.
The relic Shimmerplume of Some Dude gives a -1 vs everything, but is Autarch only.
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The only penalties that work in melee are the strat and the relic, so a CC capable force would be a decent answer.
Using Lightning Reflexes on Warp Spiders or Rangers is a nasty surprise, but remember that costs 2 CP and he can't pop it on another unit in the same phase. If your opponent is popping that stratagem every turn, try shooting with your less important guns first. If he waits until your last unit to pop it, than none of your other shooting is affected, and if he pops it the moment you shoot at an important unit, your more potent guns can shoot something else.
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Post by scuttlebug on Jul 30, 2018 11:21:25 GMT
Not incredibly relevant, but learned yesterday that you can one shot a Wraithknight in close combat without it swinging back.
You just need to charge it with two Hive Tyrants, two Carnifex and a Broodlord after softening it up with smites. Pretty situational, but I thought it was fun.
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Post by burd on Aug 1, 2018 14:19:51 GMT
Not incredibly relevant, but learned yesterday that you can one shot a Wraithknight in close combat without it swinging back. You just need to charge it with two Hive Tyrants, two Carnifex and a Broodlord after softening it up with smites. Pretty situational, but I thought it was fun. And then it colossal fall or whatever it's called and d6 mws everything within 2d6 pretty hilarious |
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