Vs. Astra Militarum (a.k.a. IG) 8.0

[nikh]

Damn, that's brutal. 100 Toxinstealers it is.

[bansh]

Dont forget to take gargoyles to bad touch his tanks....its hard to bubble wrap and avoid both stealers and gargoyles hitting tanks

[nikh]

Gargoyles, now there's an idea. Shame I have none painted

[gracelessgaunt]

Most AM lists that I've seen, you need to be able to kill two things:

T3/5+ W1 blobs of up to 30 models each
T7-8/3+ multiwound Vehicles

Guard has a handful of other defensive profiles- like, say, Ogryns- but they are relatively uncommonly used. On the offensive side, you can expect indirect-fire artillery that will brutalize your multiwound monsters, direct-fire tanks, drop plasma, and a lot of S4 AP0 and S3 AP0 high-volume fire.

If you're bringing Genestealers, you absolutely cannot walk them up the board, or even slingshot them. A Tank Commander Punisher (40 BS3+ shots, S5 AP0) can mulch its points in Genestealers in a single turn. Use a Trygon taxi or Jorg strats to deliver them instead.

Genestealers will lose a points trade against properly-supported AM infantry if the 'stealers can't wipe them out immediately. The infantry can double their attacks with a Priest in your fight phase to temporarily become cheaper Hormagaunts, then fall back in their turn and use an order to shoot anyway- and you'll be within rapid fire range of their lasguns at that point, so you're eating two S3 shots for each surviving guardsman.

Devilgaunts are the obvious choice for clearing AM bubblewrap, but there is another less-obvious option. Sporocysts or Tyrannocytes with 5x Stranglers will always have high-model-count units to shoot at, so they're functionally firing at BS4+, and can clear conscripts or infantry with remarkable points efficiency. Additionally, all AM troops have low mobility (~5") without using deepstrike or transports, so spore mine shenanigans can be very effective in preventing them from reaching objectives.

Hope this helps! It's been very close, but I haven't lost a game to AM this edition yet.

[nikh]

That does help. Can Cytes and Spores take Stranglers? I thought it was just Deathspitters and Venom Cannons

[No One]

gracelessgaunt said:

Sporocysts or Tyrannocytes with 5x Stranglers will always have high-model-count units to shoot at, so they're functionally firing at BS4+, and can clear conscripts or infantry with remarkable points efficiency.

Only if they're still bringing conscripts with nerfed commissars. If they're bringing infantry/vets, that's a HWT/casualty away from <10.

Additionally, all AM troops have low mobility (~5") without using deepstrike or transports, so spore mine shenanigans can be very effective in preventing them from reaching objectives.

If by very low mobility you mean 'standard infantry (6") with potential HC for 15 pts each', yes . (Admittedly only 4+ on conscripts. But with commissar/conscript nerfs, I think most guard armies will be running at least some infantry squads).

[gracelessgaunt]

Nov 15, 2017 0:07:13 GMT nikh said:

That does help. Can Cytes and Spores take Stranglers? I thought it was just Deathspitters and Venom Cannons

They sure can! Even with their lower accuracy, a 'cyst is still a better platform for Stranglers than a unit of Warriors, in terms of Strangler hits per point.

Nov 15, 2017 0:59:19 GMT No One said:

If by very low mobility you mean 'standard infantry (6") with potential HC for 15 pts each', yes :P . (Admittedly only 4+ on conscripts. But with commissar/conscript nerfs, I think most guard armies will be running at least some infantry squads).

Okay, fair point. Slower than our ObSec troops.

My primary AM opponent is still running conscript blobs, and they seem fairly effective at what she needs them to do. Besides, even if they go below 10 models at the first casualty, the first volley is what counts when you're clearing chaff. You should wipe individual squads out in one round of shooting anyway.

[bansh]

Do you have a flyrant?.... i can almost guarantee that ds him close to your opponent on a flank and just charge in...everything else will be forgoten due to panic....if it takes 2 turns for your opponent to kill him off, he should still have easily gotten his points back

[mattblowers]

Nov 14, 2017 22:03:06 GMT gracelessgaunt said:

Most AM lists that I've seen, you need to be able to kill two things:

T3/5+ W1 blobs of up to 30 models each
T7-8/3+ multiwound Vehicles

The dakkaflyrant is a great choice. They mow down the infantry with shooting, and then touch the tanks to prevent shooting. Next turn they bounce out and and mow down another unit. With a few t-fex rupture cannons plinking the tanks you don't charge, I think these lists have found their hard counter.

Guard has a handful of other defensive profiles- like, say, Ogryns- but they are relatively uncommonly used.

Bulgryns hit like a mack truck and are very resilient. I don't know why they don't get much love. Maybe because of the high $$$ to get the models.

[nikh]

So far I'm hearing Dakkaflyrants, Gargoyles, Biovores, and Genestealers. I've got a lot of all of those models except Biovores, I only have 3. I'm also thinking Kraken; originally I had intended Jorg, but I imagine they have a lot of Ignores Cover. Would Hive Guard with Shockcannons help against armor, or are Impaler Cannons still the obvious choice?

[mattblowers]

Nov 15, 2017 16:17:48 GMT nikh said:

So far I'm hearing Dakkaflyrants, Gargoyles, Biovores, and Genestealers. I've got a lot of all of those models except Biovores, I only have 3. I'm also thinking Kraken; originally I had intended Jorg, but I imagine they have a lot of Ignores Cover. Would Hive Guard with Shockcannons help against armor, or are Impaler Cannons still the obvious choice?

I prefer impaler because they are better all around. Shock cannon are bit niche but they can run and gun.

[hiveoverall]

I have 9 bullgryns and in using my imp guard in 8th I have so far used them every game, but split into several chimeras with double heavy flamer. I will no longer do that (too many points not going into much needed long range stuff), I will keep them on foot so they can stay close to my infantery lines and ruin stuff like flyrants' day

Shock canon against russes is not great IMHO as you will be dealing a few MW, but not much else (but with a bit of luck on the "6s" you down that tank commander or even that pask, and roar in triumph for the Hive Mind !

[Hive Bahamut]

Imo there are a few of our normal gems that suck hard against Guard.

Exocrines are #1 here. Amazing against any army that can't spam Lascannons. I've lost them both all 3 games first turn against Militarum. They outrange them, and do more damage to the intended target.

Hordes of units. A Paskisher will happily remove 20+ models from a unit a turn. No problem. Add another Punisher Commander? Anything is going to melt that needs to.

Shock Cannon Hive Guard (except Jormungandr) get deleted just as quickly while trying to get in range.

This is an army where I have no idea what works. Ive been tabled all 3 games with zero response.

[swiftkeibo]

Dec 10, 2017 21:22:53 GMT Hive Bahamut said:

Imo there are a few of our normal gems that suck hard against Guard.
...
Hordes of units. A Paskisher will happily remove 20+ models from a unit a turn. No problem. Add another Punisher Commander? Anything is going to melt that needs to.
...

This is an army where I have no idea what works. Ive been tabled all 3 games with zero response.

my tactic: Guards can't shoot the stuff that is off the battlefield.

Played against a castled up guard list with 2 punishers etc the other day. Though I knew this in advance so both lists were a bit tailored. Though on paper my list looks weak.

See list below.
Started with most things off table (rippers, 1 mine, neurothrope and biovores started on the battlefield. He parked all tanks close to edge and formed a line with troops "preventing" deep strike. I arrived with raveners roughly 11" from his line spread out as much as possible. Between and in front of them were 30 gargoyles and 30 hormagaunts. Behind them the warriors & prime (left) & venomthropes (middle) and tyrant guard (right). Behind them the devilgaunts and (middle & left) Behind the tyrant guard swarmlord and his pod arrived. Shot everything into the gunline making sure to leave a couple of squads for the hormagaunts to try an 8" charge. Used onslaught from the neurothrope (outside deny) on the gargoyles (who rolled a 5 on their advance as I used the swarmlord to hive command them to fly over the gunline and thanks to that 6" I could charge like 8 tanks turn 1. Biovores blocked a couple of fallbacks (moved and went outside synapse to ensure misses) so gargoyles were safely tucked in combat. Hormagaunts made their charge and surrounded the infantry. By turn three every single one of his units were locked in close combat and he agrees the game is basically over. Since he cant move or kill me and although I barely had synapse left I still had it and I could move freely with rippers who already controlled half the board.

Sure I lucked out with 1st turn but the result would probably have been somewhat the same with no targets to shoot. The only difference would be if his gunline had moved up. Still he wouldn't have killed 60 models of hormies and gargoyles and I would probably still have a decent chance of winning by both locking him in combat and by objectives.

Brigade 1997pts

HQ
Neurothrope
The Swarmlord
Tyranid Prime: Boneswords, Deathspitter

Elites
Pyrovore
3xTyrant Guard: Rending Claws, Scything Talons
3xVenomthrope

Troops
30x Hormagaunt: 30x Adrenal Glands
6x (3xRipper Swarms)
20x Termagant (Devourer)
6xTyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter

Fast Attack
30x Gargoyle
Mucolid Spore
6x Ravener: Rending Claws, Scything Talons

Heavy Support
3x Biovore

Dedicated Transport
Tyrannocyte

[jackshrapnel]

So I faced a shadowsword today and frankly I have no idea how to fight one of these monstrosities.

starts with 26 wounds and a 3+ save, buffed to 2+ with a power

for around 600 points it sports 2 heavy flamers, 2 heavy bolters and 4 lascannons, along with a main gun that does 4D3 shots at S16 -5 AP and each wound does 2D6 damage (was erasing a t-fex a turn even with malanthrope bubble)

for 1 CP in combat it hits on a 2+ with 7 S9 AP-3 D3 damage attacks and it still can fire its weapons if you have models within 1", it just has to fire the flamers/heavy bolters at the models within an inch and the giant guns at other stuff. for another CP it gets to overwatch on 5+

That plus two wyverns and cheap guard in chimeras zoning out the drop zone.

The shadowsword itself accounted for the death of swarmlord, a trygon, 20 genestealers, a tyrannocyte and 2 shrouded t-fexes. I got it down to it's second damage tier at least (small victory). The wyverns ate the hive guard (with CP they reroll to hit, plus reroll to wound and don't need LOS) and biovores with ease. The Shadowsword ate pretty much everything else.

Any idea how to fight this tank???