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Post by No One on Jul 13, 2017 12:51:05 GMT
So, since I've got a couple of these I'd like to do, thought I'd do up a separate thread for this, rather than doing a bunch of separate threads. That way I'm not cluttering up the forum with my boring bat reps . 1500 pts vs TauMy list:Outrider: Flyrant (stranglethorn, MRC, TS/AG) Swarmlord T-guard (RC, AG/TS) Spore mines (3) Mucolid Mucolid Patrol: Primus Patriarch 20xStealers 20xStealers Neophytes (2xmining lasers) Neophytes (2xmining lasers) His list (from memory): Supreme Command: 4xFusion commander, 2xgun drone 4xFusion commander, 2xgun drone 4xPlasma commander, 2xgun drone Battalion: Fireblade 10xFire warriors, 2xgun drone 10xFire warriors, 2xgun drone 10xFire warriors, 2xgun drone 3xstealth suits, burst, homing, ATS, 2xgun drones 3xstealth suits, burst, homing, ATS, 2xmarker drones Ghostkeel (ion raker?, 2xburst, 2xstealth drones, target lock) Pathfinders (3xrail, 3xmarker), recon drone Pathfinders (3xrail, 3xmarker), pulse accelerator drone Mission/Deployment: Relic/Vanguard.I deployed to try and block out his DS fusion. This was made difficult by the homing beacon stealth suits he deployed on the relic midfield, which would let him DS just outside of my DZ regardless of enemy models. So, deployed far back in my DZ to be outside of that 18" fusion. Unfortunately, I stuffed up a bit and just plonked the spore mines down without enough consideration before he placed the suits, and thus probably left a couple of gaps deeper in my DZ, having to also block from the front even for just a normal drop. He deployed a fire line of fire warriors (fireblade on an end rather than in the middle where he probably should have been...not sure why on that). Pathfinders on each end. Ghostkeel in the midfield with stealthsuits, who were on the relic. Commanders in reserve. I took 6+ FNP on SL, along with Onslaught and Cat. Flyrant took cat and horror. Patty had Might. He finished deploying first...then I seized. T1: Mine: Everything moved up. Brought in the neos, but not anything else. Didn't think there was anywhere really they could have gone (in hindsight, there was a nice ruin above his gunline that I probably could've fit in – this would have meant I could only engage on a very small portion of it though, which was why I decided against it), and wanted to wait for the Commanders to come down so I could engage on them if needed. Neos: 1 rolled a 6, came in on the pathfinders. Other rolled a 1: tempted to CP that, but thought I'd take the 50% chance for the top edge, where I could've sniped his fireblade. Came in on the right side instead. Psychic, cat on the flyrant. Horror on the ghostkeel failed. Smited some wounds of the stealth suits (closest), killed 1. Attempted to onslaught the muco . Failed (rolled a 6 on advance, so it actually only needed a ~4" charge onto the stealthsuits to try and kill another one, and maybe even kill them both and deny them the relic/homing drop). Shooting from the neos killed basically all of the pathfinders on that flank. HCed Flyrant, who charged into ghostkeel, killed a drone with tail. MRC knocked off 5 wounds with a CP reroll to degrade it. He rolled a 6 on morale to kill the other drone . (That's right, tail attack killed 2 drones ). Neo charge and morale finished off the last pathfinders. His: Ghostkeel left, moved back on the top flank near the ruin. Shuffled fireblade down to be in range of more stuff. Stealth picked up the relic, moved back and dropped the homing beacon, bringing in the Commanders. Commanders light up the flyrant: pretty sure the first one downed him, even through cat . Kills the muco. Rest of the army just twiddled its thumbs. Drones charged the neos who'd just killed the pathfinders – one died to overwatch. Made a 9" charge with a CP reroll. In combat, killed a neo, passed his saves. T2: While saddened by the loss of the flyrant, he'd (sort of) done his job, degrading the ghostkeel and forcing it back so that I'd have a lot more freedom to place my stealers. Also baited out the Commanders. Costly for what it did though. Speaking of freedom to place stealers...6. Come in basically where the ghostkeel was, midfield. With a nice gap in between the could run through straight into the more vulnerable fire warriors. Patty off to the left, hiding behind a wall in the ruin to charge the ghostkeel. Other stealers+primus got a 4. Came in the ruin top, so they wouldn't be eating overwatch for a long charge, and would have cover/out of LoS if they failed the charge. SL moves up. T-guard move+advance to try and keep up. Unfortunately would be out of range after HC unless they also made the charge. Psychic: Might...fails to go off with a 6 after a CP . Cat on the stealers, goes off with a 7...Tried to onslaught the t-guard I think? Failed. Moved SL up to charge in on the Commanders. Charges: Patty came in on the ghostkeel through a wall ("Oh yeah!"). SL charged into a commander+drones. Supporting fired all of the commanders, fortunately did nothing. SL succeeded, but t-guard failed, Primus and other stealers all failed. Stealers came in on the basically everything bar the commanders. Lost ~6 to overwatch from the entire gunline, which was pretty good honestly. Combat: SL whiffed terribly. 1 attack wounded, palmed off to a drone . Patty did OK, knocking the ghostkeel down to 2 wounds, even after 2 wounds palmed off to drones (I put a stealer+familiar into them, expecting at least one to die. Alas). Stealers killed off most of the firewarriors, leaving a squad on the bottom mostly unharmed (couldn't get many into range due to the commanders), 1 half dead, and 1 completely destroyed after morale. Consolidate back onto them. Neos did 2 wounds on the gun drone – he passed both saves after a CP reroll. His turn: Everything left combat. Stealth suits+gun drones wiped the stealers. Commanders were positioned to be out of LoS of SL, so they could target Patty – but fortunately for me, the neos where visible and closer, so the Commanders couldn't shoot. Something else (pathfinders?) killed the familiar and knocked a wound off patty. Neos still failed to kill that gun drone...(now nicknamed 'Herbert'). T3:My turn: I was getting very annoyed with that gun drone – was blocking fire on the Commanders, who'd otherwise be closest to my neos who weren't in combat on that flank. So I left combat. Stealers move+advance – 1. CP reroll (last one I believe), 2. Oh well. Enough to get into combat with the ghostkeel (who only had a 4" move, so couldn't go far), and could make into others with a decent charge. Patty moves up to charge into the fireblade. SL moves to take care of the Commanders, t-guard normal move so they're in range for HC. Psychic: Might goes off! Cat on SL, smite(?) failed. Shooting finally kills Herbert (just – fortunately one of the mining lasers hit). MVP gun drone, taking out 3 neophyte shooting phases and generally being a nuisance. Charges: SL into a commander, t-guard make their charge to be within 3" again. Stealers make their long charge. Patty double 6ed a 1" charge . Stealers absolutely murdered everything with Might. Massively overkill there. SL makes up for his terrible whiff earlier and kills the (WL) commander. His turn: Left combat, put a drone wall up to try and protect the stealth. Commanders into SL, but with 5++/cat/WL, he only lost 1 wound and the t-guard 2. From there, it's just mop up. The stealth still had the relic, but the stealers caught them next turn, charging through and past the drone wall thanks to patty's smite and a long charge+pile in. Only killed one, but they had nowhere to run at this point. SL multi charged 2 commanders and killed them both, with a bit of help from the neos (who finally did useful things!). He called it here (he was actually thinking the roll was at start of battle round 5, not end). Overall thoughts: Still ambivalent on the flyrant+SL combo. It lets me engage on those harder targets – except flyrant is squishy, and while its output is decent, it mightn't be good enough. Similarly SL. If I could keep up with t-guard...but they do sort of 'help' with the durability of the other – the flyrant essentially drew fire for the SL. At 200 pts, pricey for a 'distraction carnifex'...something I just thought of is waiting a turn, and using HC to throw the t-guard ahead, and then SL/flyrant catches up next turn. Dunno – depends a lot on how 'durable' t-guard are, and how much punishment they can soak for their charge. So far, it's been good. But is that indicative? Also, onslaught+advance makes t-guard surprisingly mobile. Up until they fail a charge. Stealers are great, news at 11. Stealers with Might are even better. Unfortunately vulnerable to being focused down – need some way to follow up. They're good, but not 'solo enemy army' good. And, since their presence forces the opponent to back off...need fast moving elements (more stealers!) or some other way to get charges (CA 5/6, SL). Shooting back up may work, but then you're sacrificing the stealers for little reason – you've disrupted their formation, broken through any wrap/screens, locked down things in combat and then you're...just going to let them reform and turn it into a shoot out? I think it does need a strong melee follow up – some shooting support is good. But I think the majority has to be melee – a 'scalpel' is all well and good, up until it blunts itself on bubble wrap . The neos were surprisingly OK once I could actually CA them. Provide a bit of shooting back up, and CA lets them get into range (relatively) safely.
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Post by No One on Jul 25, 2017 6:24:35 GMT
So, been meaning to type this up for a while, but haven't had time/inclination. Been a while, so memory is hazy, but anyway. 2000 pts vs Tau:My list:Supreme Command HQ Flyrant (MRC, AG/TS, Stranglethorn) HQ Flyrant (MRC, AG/TS, Stranglethorn) HQ Swarmlord Outrider HQ Magus Elite T-guard (3, RC/AG/TS) Elite Hive Guard (3, Impaler) FA Muco FA Muco FA Spore (3) Battalion (GSC) HQ Primus HQ Primus Elite Stealers (20) Elite Stealers (20) Troops Acolytes (10, saw, drill) Troops Neos (10, 2xmining, 2xgrenade) Troops Neos (10) His list:Spearhead: Longstrike (railgun, SMS, 2 seekers) 3xHammerhead (railgun, drones, 2 seekers) Outrider?: Fireblade Coldstar (Drone controller, ATS) Commander (4xmissile pod) 3x~11/12 gun drones (pretty sure 2 of 12, 1 of 11 with fireblade) 2x~8 (not 100% sure on number) Pathfinders 3x10 kroot 3xDevilfish Upon adding it up, I think he stuffed up costing somewhere . I get ~2130 pts – even with the stuff I'm not 100% on numbers (pathfinders/drones), I'm pretty sure he was over. Oh well. So, a lovely armour wall there. Deployment:DoW, big guns or scouring. I deployed all my stuff in reserve, which let me wait out his deployment. He had most of his tanks centre behind a kroot wall (2/3), with 1 pathfinder squad behind them as well. 1 devilfish+rest of the pathfinders/kroot were on (my) left flank, with a LoS/impassable building between the 2 parts of his army. I had flyrants/SL/guard ~centre of my DZ on a hill, h-guard behind the hill out of LoS. He went first...but I seized. He scouts up pathfinders+kroot a bit. Turn 1: Moved up both flyrants (and probably advanced 1?). SL moved up, making sure to keep in t-guard range (which is plenty doable T1). Brought in 1 squad of stealers with Primus to deal with the wrap, roll a 6. Neophytes on his right flank, in range of tanks. Psychic: Cat on a flyrant (should possibly have gone onto stealers?), onslaught on the other. Horror a hammerhead. Might on the stealers fails I think? Couple of smites onto the kroot, but not too many! Shooting: Move up cat flyrant with SL, jumps the kroot warp. Easy charge on the tanks . Neos into one of the hammerheads: both hit on 5s, both wound – 10 wounds! (About all they've ever done though...) Flyrant stranglethorn went...somewhere and did basically nothing. HG whiff terribly, 2(?) wounds, both saved. Assault: Memory a tad hazy about exact sequence. Pretty sure HC flyrant charged first, targetting 2 of the hammerheads – needed to tie them up first, as I had nothing that could reliably engage on them to tie them up – free Overwatch is bad. First one, all miss. 2nd: Railgun: 6. 6. I fail save, D3 (3) MW from the double 6 and 4 on the D6. I fail all 7 cat saves. He then FtGG the other hammerheads, and knocks off another 2 (I think a railgun CP reroll?), I again fail all cat saves. 9 wounds off on overwatch . Other flyrant charges the kroot and the (injured) tank: makes charge, but only enough to sit on the kroot wrap. Stealers charge both kroot and pathfinders. Devilfish FtGG I'm pretty sure (had hoped to bait out with flyrant charges, but didn't think it'd happen) – I end up losing a decent chunk, but still above 10. Stealers go first: wipe out both the kroot wraps and the pathfinders (I actually way overkilled the full health kroot, because I wasn't sure how many attacks I needed to reliably wipe, because I really needed them dead. Could've easily thrown some attacks onto the injured hammerhead). Since the kroot were dead, I could then activate the flyrant – pile in, attack the injured hammerhead. Unfortunately, a terrible wiff and only 1 HP . Other flyrant does nothing, as expected when hitting on 4s because of degradation. Hammerhead escapes with its life. His turn: Hammerheads move (all of them had to in order to let the almost dead one out, so at least all copped the -1 to hit on the railguns). 1 devilfish drops of drones+fireblade, all fall back from combat. Also dropped the commander in my backline. Shooting: Went about as expected: both flyrants down. Kills 2/3 HG. Utterly murders stealers (wasn't expecting them to live though – was banking on at least 1 flyrant living, but losing 9 wounds before he even gets his shooting phase hurts). Turn 2: Brought in both of the other squads: stealers to go in on the backline (rolled a 6), kill the drones and hopefully take out a tank with Might. Acos (5)+t-guard (advance) to go in on devilfish. SL was...somewhere? No idea what he was doing to be honest. Psychic: Cat+Might the stealers. Onslaught goes off on t-guard. Assault: Stealers make their charge (lose a bunch to overwatch), as does everything else. Stealers(?) kill the injured hammerhead (someone did, I know – might've been SL but I think he was out of range/had charge blocked), knocked 8 wounds off another and killed the drones. Might is crazy. Unfortunately couldn't get in range of the fireblade . Lost ~7 to overwatch, even through cat. Acos did decent on the devilfish, 7 wounds I think. His turn: Unloaded both drones, managed to get one of them into range of the fireblade. 2 stealers and Primus survived. SL lived (not sure if tanked wounds off onto t-guard – I think he was out of range). Turn 3: Moved SL+HC up to charge the coldstar. Neos took pot shots, did nothing. Didn't do much. Was definitely in range of the t-guard at this point. Tried to charge stealers+primus into fireblade, but couldn't do enough to kill him. His turn: Finished off drones, killed some t-guard. Nothing else of importance really. Turn 4: I charged SL (should've charged neos first, but was thinking about leaving them so didn't think it through in the assault phase) into a hammerhead – 6. 6. *Sigh*. T-guard had to charge to get into range, so down to 2 wounds I think, only knocked a couple of wounds off. Called it there I think - he had all the objectives and most of his army, though some of it was pretty hurt. I essentially just had SL on 2 wounds and a couple of other random stuff. Most of the take aways went up in my list thread, at least from an army building perspective. Longstrike+railguns hurt, especially once they start rolling 6s. Gun drones+fireblade hurt stealers, or any other melee element. But they were more of an issue because I couldn't engage of them in the devilfish, and I had no way to break all that armour, and the contents. The fact that I could only really break it in melee, and thus can't harm them until after they've shot is also a bit of a kicker (other units you could consolidate, but Fly...). There's some potential in the flyrant+SL combo, and I think it'd work quite well in a more MC orientated list, where it has more high T follow up (e.g. trygons/mawlocs/exocrines). The mobility is pretty insane. But I'm finding them very lacking in durability, and with the cult taking points away and preventing saturation...yeah, not working. Neos...BS 5+/4+ hurts, but they can do quite respectable damage. I think I really need to figure out how to focus targets down better, especially the T7 3+ stuff with Fly...
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Post by mrleonard on Jul 26, 2017 6:23:34 GMT
Love the bat raps very good information.
so your bummed on the flyrants??? They do seem abit expensive more a blade than a shield. I definitely think you had a little bum luck on getting the flyrant with those over watch shots, but maybe it would have been just as bad getting the regular shots in on theme. IF way what sexy move jumping behind that hamemr head. You could also bring a 2nd magus or add a patriarch to hold mass hypnosis. I love the flyrant being able to get such a nice angle on that hamemr head. That's pretty cool. I think you need more working with your flyrant, but i don't know who can keep up with that thing, and also sneak into places with it.
maybe throw in an HC to keep the Flyrant company. That way they can work together to assasinate priority targets. She doesn't need any buffs to throw her accross the table beecause she's already wicked fast. The Harpy can do the same thing abit more expensive here for less melee and more of an anti infantry vibe.
Your games kind of look like my experience with stealers. They go in kill stuff, and then get deleted off the table with close range fire power. This is why i wanted to drop my genestealer units down. Today i found 13 to be abit of a sweet spot
If you took the heavy weapons off the neophtye squad and went with all just shotgun neophytes. the first turn kroot killing squad could have been the neophytes instead of your first set of stealers. They'd have killed both kroot units and beat up on the path finders pretty well with thier close range shot guns and thier charge with that 6 roll. Or if you'd have gotten a 5 could have double tapped. Even more so they could have taken might from beyond and done a devastating damage, but again here you didn't get it off this turn so I'd assume you wouldn't have on the neophytes either. It's a lot closer on thier ability to actually clear up both kroot units here, and definitely hedges on morale here, but dropping 7 off bother squads and with morale they could be as good as dead.
anywho random musing. Again awesome battle report. Good information. Those flyrants are so cool. I think a Crone would be a really cool buddy for one or both of them.
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Post by jaigo on Jul 26, 2017 9:02:14 GMT
Good read, thanks for the write up. It is nice to read someone having the same issues with units that I have
The units I actualy rotate in a list keep thinning......
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Post by No One on Jul 26, 2017 10:01:51 GMT
so your bummed on the flyrants??? They do seem abit expensive more a blade than a shield. With Cult, yes. So far, I can see potential (and my next serious nid list is probably going to be built around flyrants+SL and trygon drops. But haven't looked to much into it yet - I want to see if I can get my Cult working first ). They're just that bit too fragile on their own (though running numbers, I think my opponents have consistently done over average damage on them. Not helped by my inability to make 5++ on my flyrants . Everyone else can make them, but for some reason I've never been able to make cat saves, and now invuls. *Sigh*. But I don't think by much most of the time, and often with potential back up firepower if needed). And their damage is just that little bit lacking as a lone operative, especially if degraded due to firepower . If they were just 9 wounds like DPs... . Oh, definitely. His rolling (especially overwatch - 2 double 6s, something like half his anti-tank shots were hits? ) was pretty hot. But...I also seized, and all of my CAs were charges. I'd have been staring down the barrel of 4 railguns (2 hitting on 2s), reroll 1s, and probably a large amount of mortal wounds from markerlights and seeker missiles. Now, I'd have had t-guard there. But, would that have been enough? And I'd then have still needed to do enough damage to reduce that 2nd round of firepower (which, even ignoring overwatch, would've been pretty nasty). *Shrug*. ...Eh...Like, they did actually get a 6 (so could've got into double tap shotgun range). But - lets go 20 guys (a bit more than the HW squad, a bit less than both). 5.6 dead kroot - ~8 from morale, could've easily killed off the squad with a charge (I rolled them last, otherwise I might've actually attempted this). That'd still leave 10 kroot and a pathfinder line in front of the majority of their forces - trying to morale+charge them both off, risky. All dead, through FtGG overwatch (which killed...~6 stealers)? Really doubt it. I could've killed off the more 'flank' kroot pretty reliably (especially with less overwatch), and opened up that side for a potential charge on 2 of the hammerheads next turn. Which would've been brilliant if I could've pulled it off. Unless they rotated their wrap, or moved the hammerheads back. Which they would've - even leaving aside if they'd have considered reserves, I had 2 flyrants saying hi, they'd have had to move back to actually fire. Or dropped drones for wrap - either the transported drones for nasty overwatch and a strong wrap, or the 2 drones on each vehicle for obnoxious 9" denial bubbles. Killing off the flank kroot would also have caused issues with getting the flyrant into combat (I purposely didn't shoot them with my neos as is) - the HC would've been fine, but the other one actually used the kroot to slingshot himself into combat (needed something like a 10" onto the hammerhead - comfortably made with a pile in, but wouldn't have without). It also meant I'd have had nothing to really engage on the pathfinders - that was the other part of that charge. I trusted the stealers to kill the pathfinders. So no reroll 1s to hit (which, when they could potentially hit on 2s...), no seekers doing 2+ MW rerolling 1s etc. Crone would probably be nice? Though (leaving aside issues with me not actually having the model ) I'm not sure if it has enough damage output (and thus threat) to really draw firepower from the flyrants. And if it's not drawing firepower from flyrants, it doesn't really have enough oomph to really do more than be a nuisance once the flyrant dies. Maybe as more than just the one? It also doesn't deal with the issue of just being blown off the table. Which is why I either want more flyrants, so that some can do stuff (16"+AG+onslaught can potentially keep up, and offers a guaranteed next turn charge if they're dealing with the HC one), and/or trygons (who dodge the alpha firepower, can potentially charge from reserves in support, and offer similar threat potential. Also bring along infantry for anti-infantry, like devilgants). But I don't have anywhere near the points for all of that in a cult list - so that'd be a 'nid' list with (at most) a unit of purestrains chucked in for the heck of it. But I'd almost certainly be better off running nid stealers in the tunnel . Yeah, was something I was considering (~13/14 - I don't like 12, because I'm usually losing ~4+ on overwatch. With smaller squad sizes, I'd be charging less stuff. But still, very real chance of losing the +1 A before even striking, even if you're getting a CA charge off). A 14 and a 20, one for wrap, the other for killing. But I've now got enough for 40 (actually 39) - not enough for 3, but enough for 2 full. I don't like acolytes over stealers, and what else am I going to use those points for? If I need something to suicide (ideally) I'll have a middling unit of acos to suicide. If I don't, then everything comes on together - so what if they get focused down? The other unit's still fine - it also means they can't just split fire them all down to under 10 with relative ease (still dangerous, just not as dangerous). If they can focus down 2 at 20, well, they can focus down 3 at 13. *Shrug* Will test out smaller squads with acolytes (because I think I'm getting a tad greedy with stealer multi-charges. It'd work well if they didn't have Fly...but they've had Fly ), see what happens with them before moving to stealers who lose more for that small squad size. Also means there's still a juicy target for Might/cat (and boy are they fun when they go off). Yeah, fun to play when they work (my more 'for funsies' lists consistent of mostly flyrants have been surprisingly effective...). But not so much when they don't . Glad you both liked the write ups .
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Post by No One on Nov 5, 2017 14:15:58 GMT
Recently tried out a 2250 pt list, thinking about going to a local tournament (though it will allow the Codex, so I'll have to change things up if I do go). 2250 pts vs Chaos MarinesMy list:Battalion HQ Swarmlord (Warlord) HQ Malanthrope HQ Flyrant (MRC, TS, AG, stranglethorn) Elite Tyrant guard (RC, AG) Troops Stealers (20) Troops Termagants (11 devs, 14 fleshborer) Troops Termagants (11 devs, 15 fleshborer) FA Gargs (20) Patrol (GSC) HQ Patriarch Elite Purestrain Stealers (19) Troops Neophytes (10) Spearhead HQ Magus HS Trygon (AG) HS Mawloc HS Biovore His list (no idea on dets – he hardly used CP anyway): Emperor's Children Sorc Sorc Daemon prince Exalted champ Aspiring champ 10 Thousand sons (3 warpflamers, soulreaper) 10 Marines (heavy bolter, melta, combi-melta?) 10 cultists 10 cultists Pred (quad-las) Maulerfiend Hellbrute (melta, fist) 5 Chosen (stuff) 5 Possessed 2 spawn 3 obliterators Set up: Hammer and Anvil (joy). 4 objectives. He deployed one unit of cultists left with the thousand suns behind and maulerfiend behind a building. Chaos marines front middle. Chosen, possessed, spawn, DP and other chosen right/back right. Helldrake literally as far away from me as it could get...Hellbrute and pred back middle. Punisher gat turret at the front of his DZ. I deployed across with the gaunts, while SL, t-guard, mal and flyrants sat together in the middle. I got first turn. T1: Moved everything up: some devilgants got in range with a 6 for advance, killed some cultists. -1 on gat (it didn't shoot all game ). Flyrant knocked some wounds off the pred I think? Double moved the gargs: they assaulted the cultists and marines, pulled the thousand sons in, and completely wrapped the pred. 42" in a turn from some of them . Also killed a cultist or two, last died to morale. Stuffed up a bit in that I was out of Synapse (was semi-intentional in that I didn't think I'd have enough to chain coherency back to Synapse and pull in the pred due to the marines making the charge awkward. But I had ~7 just hanging around, so I probably did), so had to 2CP them to survive after losing more than I was expecting to the marines. Otherwise very happy with that charge . His T1: Not much happened due to the gargs messing around . Helldrake moves up, kills a couple of gaunts. Hellbrute, DP and spawn charge the gargs: brutally murder the few they were in range of. But I was able to remove casualties such that he couldn't get to me with the remaining units, leaving me still with 3 gargs on the pred . (This was more a misplay on his part: if he'd charged the marines in as well, they definitely would've died. He also likely could've activated them in a different order to prevent casualty removal. But I'll take what I can get). T2: Moved the SL+Flyrants off to the right flank where the helldrake was. Gaunts moved up. Smite was really effective: combined with some devilgant shooting (only thing in range other than the T8 gun emplacement), dropped it down to 1 wound. Was planning on charging it...but at one wound, I had a conveniently missed biovore shot that'd had to shoot it. So HC the spore mine! Letting everyone stay in mal/t-guard range. Poor helldrake... His T2: Finally got the pred out of combat with the gargs. Kills a couple of gaunts (still hasn't gotten to the devs). Drops in obliterators way in the back and kills the biovore. Otherwise nothing happens. T3: Move everything up: keep flyrant+SL in mal/t-guard bubble, since there wasn't anything good enough to engage on. Bring in everything: purestrains on the left get a 3 after the reroll . Neos get a 6 though, which was something. Stealers come in on the right flank to deal with the chosen/possessed and threaten the pred. Also lets the trygon charge the gun. Mawloc comes in on backfield: kills a sorc who'd lost some wounds to perils, and knocks off some wounds on the pred to bring it down a degradation step. Charges: Stealers charge the cultists, chosen and possessed. Trygon makes the charge against the fortification. Neos charge the marines. Stealers kill the cultists, 2/4 possessed and 3/5 chosen, even with a couple stretching coherency back to Synapse/between units. Trygon killed the fortification. Neos...I got greedy and moved them all out of range of the patriarch, so that I could (successfully) wrap the marines and still bring the thousand sons into combat. Which I did. And I still had enough left after casualties...but not after morale . Likely would've been able to stretch so I just touched both while still remaining in range, but definitely wouldn't have been able to wrap: still went too big and got nothing. His T3: Smites out the last neo . Shooting kills the trygon (las pred shot for the first time...and failed to wound). Charged mawloc with maulerfiend and hellbrute. Charged stealers with DP, spawn and some characters. Attacked the mawloc first...Interrupt time! Only had 10 stealers left unfortunately (mostly due to one of the last Chosen having lightning claws). But still went pretty well: killed off the last of the Chosen, almost killed both possessed, reduced the exalted champ to one wound. Unfortunately couldn't kill either off due to how the models were positioned . He then brutally murdered them and finished off the mawloc. T4: We agreed this would be last turn due to time. Moved up the purestrains to try and get through the thousand sons and grab/contest his home objective. Flyrants/SL stuck on an objective right midfield: flyrant couldn't really charge onto anything I wanted to, definitely would've died to counter-charges too. They both used smite on...something...and both periled .Stealers made the charge with Might...then lost ~half the squad to warpflamer overwatch . Managed to kill the squad...just. Managed to finally kill the marines as well with the devilgants – they'd been obnoxiously surviving due to 2+ in cover (though we were playing that a bit wrong with barricades, but anyway). Grabbed the other midfield objective with the gaunts. His T4: Maulerfiend and hellbrute charged the stealers. DP and spawn charged the flyrant. Oblits grabbed the objective in my backfield and something grabbed the objective in his backfield. Stealers died horribly, flyrant lived but couldn't do much back. Game ends. Final score: Draw (2 objectives each, he had linebreaker, I had FB). I had 1 more KP and had control of more objectives over the game for maelstrom (i.e. the mission pack for the tournament this was testing for). But I wasn't in a good position to do much: flyrant and SL should have been able to handle the DP+spawn, but not reliably with EC trait. And couldn't have done anything really to the maulerfiend, which would've mopped up the terms. Things: H&A was brutal for the devilgants. They also didn't really like the cover in the map, but still did decent: quite survivable actually, which was nice. The gargs were great with HC. Stealers...they both killed stuff. But...eh. I don't feel that either of them were impactful kills. Flyrant did slightly more than nothing, but didn't pull its weight: knocked a couple of wounds off the pred, killed a rhubric marine, and cast some psychics. About it. To be honest, I could probably have played back around midfield and let him come to me, sent flyrant back to kill the oblits and then just held those 3 objectives. Just...that idea doesn't appeal to me (not only from a 'fun' sense, but also from a tactical perspective: I had basically no way to answer his firepower, and stealers aren't exactly known for the durability...) If I could've held stuff in reserves longer though...I probably would've, since I wanted to be able to assault onto the mobile stuff (DP, maulerfiend) and the pred. But I could only assault onto the less mobile possessed/chosen, which I didn't care about as much.
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Post by No One on Nov 29, 2017 14:37:52 GMT
Recently went to a big tournament here: about 50 players, 2250 pts. Ended up placing 8th at 4-1-1, which...I'm really happy with. Codex was good: I felt that I had good options in most of my games, and way more than I did at Index. Also surprised me how well some stuff did. Preface: I went into this with way less playtime than I wanted, having been essentially unable to get any games on the tabletop since August, and only having 1 game with the Codex. So, slower and less experienced than I would've like, but still did way better than I was expecting. Will try to post up bat reps of all my games, but a bit eh about that at the moment. All games were EW, Maelstrom and KP. Edit: Just realised I forgot to include my list. Woops My list:Battalion (Behemoth): HQ Hive Tyrant with Wings (170), monstrous scything talons->Scythes of Tyran (15), 2 devourers with brainleech (14), adrenal glands (5), toxin sacs (4), prehensile pincer (0). PL 11 208 HQ Malanthrope (90), grasping tail (0). PL 5 90 Troops 25 Termagants (100), 25 devourers (100). PL9 200 Troops 20 Genestealers (200), 20 rending claws (40), 8 scything talons (0), 4 acid maws (0). PL 16 240 Troops 3 Rippers (33). PL 2 33 FA 20 Gargoyles (120), 20 fleshborers (0), 20 blinding venoms (0). PL 6 120 Spearhead (Behemoth) HQ Hive Tyrant with Wings (170), monstrous rending claws (0), heavy venom cannon (25), adrenal glands (5), toxin sacs (4), prehensile pincer (0). PL 11 204 HQ Swarmlord (300). PL 15 300 Elite 3 Tyrant Guard (105), 3 rending claws (6), 3 scything talons (0), 3 adrenal glands (3). PL 7 114 HS Trygon (108), 3 massive scything talons (60), bio-electric pulse (0), biostatic rattle (0), adrenal glands (5). PL 9 173 HS Trygon (108), 3 massive scything talons (60), bio-electric pulse (0), biostatic rattle (0), adrenal glands (5). PL 9 173 HS Carnifex (67), heavy venom cannon (25), 2 devourers with brainleech (14), enhanced senses (10). PL 6 116 Outrider (Kronos) HQ Warlord: Hive Tyrant with Wings (170), 2 devourers with brainleech (14), heavy venom cannon (25), prehensile pincer (0). PL 11 209 FA Mucolid (20). PL 1 20 FA Mucolid (20). PL 1 20 FA 3 Spore Mines (30). PL 2 30 Total: 2250 Game 1:Custodes: 3xCustodian Guard (4 spears, 1 sword/shield) 3xvenerable raiders Celestine 5(?) primaris psykers. Mission: EW: 2 worth 1 pt, 2 worth 2 pts, 2 worth 4 pts. Maelstrom: Cloak and Shadows. -1 to hit outside of 18" , 3 cards (secret). Vanguard. Map: Big BLOS/Impassable building in the middle (technically could see through the small windows, but we decided that it was pretty pointless as terrain otherwise). 2 bastions on either side, and a couple of ruins in the corners. The 2 4 pt objectives were in the DZ corners, the other 4 were pretty evenly spaced, essentially just circling the centre building. Deployment: He set up in the back, primaris acting as DS screens out the front. I set up SL, fex, mal, t-guard behind a bastion with the centre building blocking LoS for the other angles. Rippers sitting happy out of LoS in a ruin on the 4 pt objective. He gets first turn. T1: He moves up, takes some pot shots at a fex with one of the raiders but does nothing. Primaris run forward to screen better. My T1: Drop WL flyrant behind centre building – has LoS to a Primaris (and possibly a raider?). Drop gargs in as well: use HC with them to wrap a primaris and pull in a raider (possibly 2? Not sure, but I don't think the 2nd was close enough). Murder a primaris or 2 (also knock some wounds off a raider, but may have been out of range - definitely was later when I took some shots.. . Made no difference anyway, and we rolled back the damage once I realised.) T2: Custodians pile out of one of the raiders: combined with a Celestine charge, wipe the gargs. One of the raiders moved up the left flank to get LoS on my WL flyrant, but doesn't do anything of note. Primaris keep moving forward (he had linebreaker card). My T2: He stuffed up his positioning a bit: left a gap behind his forward most primaris, with Celestine not hiding behind the custodes. Just fit the devilgants+trygon in this nice little spot. Bring in the stealers as far forward as I can. SL uses metabollic overdrive to get in range of them. Also drop MRC flyrant to charge a raider left flank. Devilgants bring Celestine down to 2 wounds. Double tap them: split fire some into the custodes. Wiff and Celestine passes all of her 10(?) odd saves on the second go. As do the custodes . MRC flyrant chips a couple of wounds off in shooting/psychic, but later fails charge. WL kills another primaris. Stealers make the charge: pile in onto a raider in the back and also grab 2 objectives to score dominion. 1 wound on Celestine, implant attack to kill her. Literally nothing else done by them, disappointing . Custodes swing back, kill most of them. T3: Custodes pile out of the raiders: one moved to charge the DS flyrant, the other to charge the trygon+gaunts. Moves last primaris up to (finally) get linebreaker card. Shooting kills a lot of the devilgants (~half the squad). Landraiders...I think shot the trygon? Either way, the trygon ended up dead after the custodes charge, and the other flyrant was basically fine (though he did nothing in return due to storm shield). My T3: Bring in the scy tal flyrant to help out against the custodes. Double move SL to charge Celestine. WL kills primaris with devs. HVC do a couple of wounds to raiders, but no degrades. Charges: scy tal flyrant makes its charge, as does SL (no surprises there). Storm shield took a couple of hits, but scy tal+MRC ended up killing 3 custodes, while SL butchered Celestine. T4: He burned down SL with the raiders. Moved one of the Custodes onto an objective, not sure what happened to the other one... My T4: Basically just went for objectives: terms used metabollic+charge...woops. (Probably) had enough to get it anyway (22" or something), charge was just my guarantor since we weren't quite sure (made even messier by me having a brief moment of 'SL is still alive' and triple moving...). Flyrants finished off the custodes. Game ended due to time: I can't remember VP exactly, but it was heavily in my favour. I had 2 4 pt objectives, a 2 pt and possibly a 1 pt? (I can't remember if we counted that: I have a feeling we both forgot and just thought they were maelstrom...I know I didn't remember to grab the other 1 pt when it was easily possible...). Add on dominion and 1-2 VP per turn, plus 7 KP? I think it was...~30-16? Final score was a difference of 13-14, for a 17-3 victory. Thoughts: he didn't really have any answers to my MCs with the 4++. Add on the ability of my infantry to tie up his raiders, and the custodes lack of strong anti-MC? I suspect that it would've turned into a bit of a slap fight if things had continued, but with me still controlling objectives: the gaunts would've charged the raiders to prevent firing, while the flyrants ate the custodes. It mightn't have been as clean, but definitely a win. What worked/didn't: Flyrants did pretty well. HVC was nice for chipping away at the raiders, though didn't end up doing enough to matter in any way. Combat output was good (for their one showing...), as was survivability. Could get focused down (SL), but other than that? They had the mobility to engage as I wanted, to a decent extent. Swarmlord/stealers/gargs...eh? They actually did really well (6 VP is great), but not as you'd expect. Stealers did hardly any damage (though it was pretty pivotal). Gargs...only stopped a raider from firing (since the others couldn't anyway due to LoS), which is a bit eh. Similarly, devilgants did well against Celestine and grabbing final objectives, but T5 2+ is harsh for them. Rippers were great: 33 pts for 4 VP? Yes please. Fex was a bit of a flop. Just spent all game sitting on an objective out of range (well, possibly in T1 but well out late game, since things rotated to the left side, and he was on the right...). Trygon...as usual, died without doing anything other than taxi. *Sigh*.
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Post by luke1705 on Nov 30, 2017 4:46:00 GMT
Thanks for the report. Yeah no invuln on the Trygon really kills it for me. Wish it was more durable.
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Post by No One on Nov 30, 2017 5:18:11 GMT
Yeah no invuln on the Trygon really kills it for me. Wish it was more durable. Invul would've been nice, if weird. But not even T7?
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Post by gigasnail on Nov 30, 2017 5:19:51 GMT
T7 would have been sweet.
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Post by jaigo on Nov 30, 2017 8:40:55 GMT
Is swarmlord worth his points in your opinion?
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Post by No One on Nov 30, 2017 9:06:30 GMT
Yes. He needs to be built around to an extent, but HC is a very powerful ability with all the DS stuff we have. And with voracious, he's pretty good at taking out multi-wound stuff: just not reliably able to get there. The T/invul bump was pretty needed though, since he has less of a tendency to just die now.
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Post by jaigo on Nov 30, 2017 9:39:09 GMT
Yeah T7 really helps
Do you use HC on tyrant guard or on SL himself then.
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Post by almostmercury on Dec 1, 2017 18:49:24 GMT
Well, between those two, you would use it on SL. Otherwise your guard are no longer guarding and swarmlord is no longer in combat.
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Post by No One on Feb 15, 2018 13:59:35 GMT
Welp, apparently I'm not getting the Masters battle reports done (Game 2 is mostly done if anyone's interested, but it wasn't exactly super interesting or anything). But had a game recently vs BA. Thought it was a good game, something a bit different playing into DS melee: will try and discuss a bit of my thoughts and decision making process for this. My list: HQ Flyrant (MRC, Devs, TS, AG) 193 HQ Flyrant (MRC, Devs, TS, AG) 193 HQ Neurothrope 70 Elites Hive Guard (6 impaler) 288 Troops Termagants (17) 72 Troops Rippers (3) 33 Troops Rippers (3) 33 HS Biovore 36
Battalion (GSC) HQ Primus 76 HQ Primus 76 HQ Magus 73 Elite Purestrains (20) 300 Elite Aberrants (7 hammers) 231 Troops Neophytes (10) 50 Troops Acolytes (5) 55 Troops Acolytes (5) 55
Spearhead (IG) HQ Company Commander (Bolter, WL, Aquila) 31 HS HWT (3xMortar) 33 HS HWT (2xMortar, Lascannon) 48 HS HWT (2xHB, Lascannon) 54
2000
His list: IG Battalion Company Commander Primaris 3xinfantry squads
BA Battalion Captain (jump pack, TH, SH, relic to regain a CP on 5+) Mephiston (5++, +1 A, wings) 2xTac squads (plasma) Scout 2xSicaran Death company (9 guys, cc/pistol/jump pack) Sanguinary guard (7 guys)
Custodes Supreme Command 3xshield captain on bike (hurricane). One was WL with 3++ and 5+++.
Mission: Scouring, triangle version of DoW. Deployment: I got to place last objective, and took the side with 4 objectives and a nice LoS blocker in the middle . He deployed centrally, conveniently across from the LoS blocker. Infantry squads around everything. Death company central, just behind the infantry squads. Shield captains deployed behind as well, 2 left and 1 right. Sanguinary guard and captain in reserves. Scouts came in just outside 9" on my left flank. I deployed around the HG and the LoS blocker. Essentially trying to block out DS and the death company as much as I could: HG and 2 HWT behind the LoS blocker, as far back as possible. Terms on the left to block space, acos btb with the HG to stop the DC just double moving over and to act as a counter charge. Neos on the right. Rippers/biovores and the last HWT blocked out as much DS area as possible (small space on the far left corner, which I didn't care about). Then I got T1, rendering my positioning moot. He elected not to try and seize though: presumably, he wanted to wait me out while he had a good defensive position and then counter charge with everything (or felt that was a good enough strat to not bother with seize?) But...didn't quite work. T1: I moved the gaunts and neos up to further deny DS. Considered bringing stuff in, but with so much stuff in reserves, I had limited offensive options and it'd end up being a bad trade. Plan was to play around the HG/mortars: I had shooting options, he didn't, which forced him to come to me and engage first. Shooting went really well: lascannon got lucky and knocked 6 wounds off a sicaran. HG knocked it down to 2 with double tap, and killed off half of the death company as well: with the nice LoS blocking, I was more concerned with the DC, especially if they could jump the HG. Charged the terms into the scouts to lock and mean he had to kill me in cc. His T1: He moved the DC and shield captains up as well as the infantry and Mephiston. And...woops, stuffed up big time: left a small hole at the very back of my DZ. Thought that the rippers/HWT blocked it, but 18" apart still leaves spaces when they're circles . This let him drop the captain in. Shield-captain on the right flank shot some acolytes and charged the neos, but only killed a couple. DC+shield captains on the left charged the terms: dc killed most of them, so the shield captains were out of combat. Captain used strat for 3d6, got a 13" charge or something (needed a 12 onto the HG, otherwise would have had to charge the HWT and would've had difficulty piling in on the HG). Killed 4, but couldn't consolidate onto the HG because of the HWT. Also killed the HB/las HWT on the right flank with sicarans, and could just draw LoS to the mortar squad to kill it as well. T2: I stuffed up, so no longer have good fire support. But, they did work on the sicaran and forced the engage on my terms, so well worth even with the mistake. Shuffled around my backfield: HWT fell back, commander went right to try and stay alive, just in range for orders. Acolytes moved back to counter charge the commander. Terms fell back and spread out to leave room for the stealers, but stayed just outside of 1" (I can't remember why: probably to limit pile in/consolidate options? Didn't have the move to get completely out of the way though). Then the important bit: reserves. Stealers came in: rolled a 5 with primus, but got a 6 for the movement, so plenty good. Showed up to deal with the shield captains and DC. Flyrants on the right flank to smite out the lone shield captain. Magus also showed up on the left flank: rolled a 2, just in range to hyp one of the shield captains. Psychic: Smite+scream knocks the shield captain down to 3. Cat the purestrains. Fail hyp, nothing else really happens. Shooting: HG finish off the sicaran. Flyrants+mortars kill some marines and guardsmen. Commander ran away as fast as his legs could carry. (Move! Move! Move! underrated ) Charge: Purestrains (and primus) charged both shield captains and the DC: didn't want to engage the WL, because I doubted my ability to handle even one shield captain, let alone one with a 3++/5+++, but they were way too close for that, let alone heroic intervention. A couple go over to wrap the scouts. One flyrant made the charge on the other shield captain. Acolytes charge the BA captain. Stealers just kill the DC (with a little help from the primus), and knock a couple of wounds off the shield captain. Flyrant does 2 wounds unsaved, roll double 1s for wounds. He was on 1 wound, so CP...1 (I at least got the CP back ). Then I implant attack to finally kill *phew*. Acolytes knock the captain down to 2 wounds. He retaliates with the shield captains: kills ~4 stealers. Captain kills some acolytes. Still have more than 10 stealers, so I activate them again: roll hot and overkill the injured shield captain. Something I could maybe have done here, is planned ahead for a 2nd activation and tried to avoid the shield captains: stay outside of 3" with the charge, use pile in to strike, then use consolidate to get into position for the 2nd activation, while avoiding combat with the WL. Messy in this case, but planning ahead for that strat is something I need to do more: it just means I could be caught out, planning something and then rolling hot/dying and being left not having need/double activation being untenable. His T2: Moves everything up and brings in the sanguinary guard to charge the stealers. Mephiston fails his psychics (didn't even need Kronos strat, which I was saving for wings). Shooting into the flyrants did a handful of wounds to one and brought the other just into first degrades (he split fired a bit here when he didn't need to, which didn't do him any favours). Sanguinary guard whiffed and only killed 2 stealers after cat. He then went with the WL, killing another 3: but I was able to pull casualties out of coherency/from the scouts, so didn't actually lose many attacks and was just at 10. I went with the acolytes, but failed to kill the captain, who then whacked out the HWT (who he'd consolidated into because I derped and didn't btb when I charged). Other acolyte finish him (may or may not have needed implant), then stealers killed most of the sanguinary, did a couple of wounds to the WL and killed all bar 1 scout. Not bad for his turn . T3: Uninjured flyrant moves into his backfield. Injured flyrant (smite+scream) moves over to the combat and regens a wound to bring him back to top level. Habberants come on: don't have much to do, so they just join the flyrants to charge the marines. Forget about the rippers . Psychic kills the sanguinary down to 1 guy on 1 wound. Shooting+morale wipes the 2 guardsmen squads doing anything. One flyrant charges the marines, other charges the WL shield captain, and the habberants charge the marines as well. Flyrant kills the habberants out of combat with one marine squad: they then butcher the other one and overrun (you can see where this is going ). Other flyrant gets saved by 3++, stealers then knock 5 wounds off. Some stealers die, then I double activate the haberrants to tag the sicaran. At this point he callls it, with the only useful unit not in combat and/or nearly dead being Mephiston, and me still with most of my army. Overall, a good game. List went very well: stealers were able to pick targets and stay in combat. Flyrants came in and essentially run mop up with uncontested with most things dead/engaged. Similarly with haberrants, though in this match up, more purestrains would've been more helpful. The actual hammers weren't helpful specifically, just that additional reliable melee follow up. HG were really good, but their reliance on well positioned LoS blockers and the enemy essentially deploying across from them isn't great. Still, best tool for the job, and you can still do damage going first/after getting shot, it's just not crazy good. The IG component did what it was supposed to do (give me oodles of CP and more units in reserves ) and was decent shooting (apart from the lucky lascannon shot). Not entirely sure on load out (partly just what I have): could maybe be tweaked?
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