IA Xenos Link

[No One]

Stonecrusher looks really good for not much more than a normal fex. Wrecker claws dodge the -1 to hit and get rerolls vs Vehicles (D6 vs 3 Dam is eh though), and bio-flail is hilarious against anything that isn't a vehicle. And you can take both, and use both (it just says 'each time the bearer fights'...nothing about only being able to attack with that weapon ).

Heck, if you're playing PL, they're cheaper than fexes.

Meiotic spores vs mucolids is amusing - you can really tell they just gave up on that. Exactly the same wounding (2+, D3. 6, 3). 2 pts less for T2 2W vs T3 3W but more obnoxious deployment rules (before the game starts, so you can block their T1 movement if they're going first) and a min squad of 3 vs 1.

Hierophant...counter SH with potential S20 Dam2D6, doubled unsaved wounds due to Macro. Being able to shoot out of combat with the GMCs is also amusing.
But...GMCs on the whole look underwhelming (outside of Harridan, as before) - barbed has the same shot output with the same profile as 6 HG, but hits on 4s. Scythed only slightly more dangerous in melee than a Trygon (S10 vs S7 only difference). The increased durability and ability to fire (and leave) out of combat with Infantry is really good. And there's a bit more melee/shooting/movement than their comparative counterparts. But at ~double the cost? Harridan would be obnoxious though with 30" move and charge, and hitting on 3s with shooting. Only T7 and twice again on the hierodules though.

The price drop was well needed, but (barbed especially) also copped a nerf in the S10->8 on its shooting, without even getting a damage bump to give it that similar anti-tank niche. Hierophant has that now, but is also almost 2k .

[jesses]

I think the Scythed is actually pretty incredible. It has 8 attacks to the Trygon's 7, and that S10 versus S7 is a BIG deal. It's also hilariously more durable with 22W and T8. Yes it's twice the price, but I think it's twice as good.

Not too mention it's significantly better shooting.

Barbed is a bit underwhelminh I'll agree. That D3 Damage on the Bio-Cannons is a bit weird. What exactly is it's intended target? Cause it's not doing much to other superheavies anymore.

[LordPathos]

Is it just me or is the formatting on the names a little weird?

[jesses]

Jun 23, 2017 5:03:49 GMT LordPathos said:

Is it just me or is the formatting on the names a little weird?

The person who scanned it used a desktop epub reader. FW makes kinda (please do not swear) epubs and the formatting is screwy on free readers.

[No One]

jesses said:

I think the Scythed is actually pretty incredible. It has 8 attacks to the Trygon's 7, and that S10 versus S7 is a BIG deal. It's also hilariously more durable with 22W and T8. Yes it's twice the price, but I think it's twice as good.

Not too mention it's significantly better shooting.

Not going to say it's bad. But...as I said, underwhelming. It's more that it's got the same Dam statline as a Trygon that bugs me - would AP-4, or Dam D6 (with a variance negator e.g. drop lowest, 1s/2s count as 3s) be too much to ask? Had missed the fact that it's one more due to double scy tals.

Add in the trygon tunnel (which is actually really good now) with AG/devilgants/whatever? 18" Move with Advance isn't shabby either, but still not quite 'show up outside of 9"' level for early game .

The shooting is nice (and I did mention that they've got better shooting/melee than their melee/shooting 'counterparts'), yes. But...*shrug*. You can still compare it to a knight for a touch more, who's Dam 6 melee (though less attacks), much better shooting, and is more durable.

[jesses]

The Knight is only slightly more durable, +2Ws on that statline is negligble. The 5++ against shooting is nice.

While it would have been nice to have a more reliable Damage stat, its the Str 10 that's important here. Going from 5+ to 3+ to wound a Knight it a huge deal.

Still a TON of variance but that's ~12W on the Knight average for the Scythed, rather than ~5 for the Trygon Prime. Even two Trygons (to make te points more fair) aren't equally the Scythed's damage on average.

More than double the output. Plus if the Knight gets the charge it's just instant killing the Trygon on average, but doing generally 6W or 12W to the Scythed. Scythed at least gets to hit back.

The Trygon might be a better generalist (debatable) but the Scythed is a MUCH better Knight killer.

[No One]

jesses said:

The Knight is only slightly more durable, +2Ws on that statline is negligble. The 5++ against shooting is nice.

The 5++ is more what I was referring to .

While it would have been nice to have a more reliable Damage stat, its the Str 10 that's important here. Going from 5+ to 3+ to wound a Knight it a huge deal.

Still a TON of variance but that's ~12W on the Knight average for the Scythed, rather than ~5 for the Trygon Prime. Even two Trygons (to make te points more fair) aren't equally the Scythed's damage on average.

More than double the output. Plus if the Knight gets the charge it's just instant killing the Trygon on average, but doing generally 6W or 12W to the Scythed. Scythed at least gets to hit back.

The Trygon might be a better generalist (debatable) but the Scythed is a MUCH better Knight killer.

Fair enough.

[bolk]

*sniff* And now the Stonecrusher is no more survivable than a regular fex, and still can't take AG...

[N.I.B.]

Arrgh! Want Forgeworld to be legal in our tournaments!

[xtztxtxz]

The Scythed vs Barbed debate is interesting because as written the only melee difference between them is 2 attacks, while the WS on the Barbed doesn't degrade with damage. You probably want both of them getting stuck in as Bio-cannons aren't good enough to justify holding back. Between Agile and a successful cast of Onslaught, a turn 1 charge from either Hierodule is very achievable. It's also worth pointing out that Hierodule degradation kicks in slightly later than the usual, at 10 wounds rather than 11.

While Hierophants got a significant points bump, for once they look to be comparable to other Titan-sized units sitting neatly in between the Warhound and Reaver in terms of damage output and durability. It did trade 1 point of toughness for a better invuln, and now has one of highest wound counts in the game - just behind Reaver/Phantom/Warlord Titans. Both S20 shooting and melee gives us our own d-weapon at last, and the other weapons will wreck nearby infantry blobs.

Unloading 20 'stealers plus a Broodlord from the incubation chamber will be horrifying.

[jesses]

Hmmmm, good points. I do feel like those 2 extra attacks are a big deal though, especially considering the targets you are likely to be attacking. Sure they kill normal tanks about equally, but the Scythed is fairly likely to put enough wounds on a Knight to drop it a level of degradation, the Barbed isn't. Still, will need playtesting.

The weirder thing for me is that neither of them have a Titanic Feet equivalent for use against tarpits, but I guess with either that's a moot point because they can fire into combat if its Infantry, and Fall Back with (near) impunity.

The real winner to me is the Harridan. No min move requirement, solid close combat attacks, and while it is only S7 it has the speed to reach out and touch whatever it wants. Yes the Bio-Cannons are still lacklustre but it can Fly right over screening units, Sky Attack something good for a few Mortal Wounds, blast one or two units with the Bio-cannons and then charge something else... that is one HELL of an alpha strike in one unit.

You can even put a unit of Gargoyles in it to drop off T2 and cause even more backfield mayhem. Feels turbo-worth its points.

[Kitane]

While I am disappointed that Hellstorm template for Scythed Hierodule is no longer a thing and 8" range is not a fair replacement, a S6 AP-2 d3 flamer with 2d6 autohits is still a very respectable weapon both for offense and overwatch.

Edit: It's surprising that none of our bio-cannon gargants received a rule similar to Exocrine or Tyrannofex, allowing it to fire twice under certain conditions.

And for giggles, our FW gargants can't fire their bio weapons within 1" of enemy Rippers and Sky-slashers and they can't ignore them during fallback, as our Swarms lack INFANTRY keyword.
Rechecking, super-heavy walkers like Knights also can't fallback over our swarms.

[bolk]

Strange that the Scythed Hierodule only has 2 scything talons. It's modelled with 4.

[Threeshades]

Jun 23, 2017 9:40:11 GMT bolk said:

Strange that the Scythed Hierodule only has 2 scything talons. It's modelled with 4.

I think they actually refer to pairs, and the mistake is rather with the barbed hierodule and the harridan having more than they should. There has to be a reason after all why there is a price for single sything talons. It would fit too, because

This index is one of the biggest rushjobs i have ever seen in tabletop. See also Dimachaeron's useless 2x Strength, Malanthrope only affecting models, and the Meka Dread shown in the WarCom article having a weapon profile for a weapon it evidently can't have. And with this we can add to the list that the hierophant's scything talons are the same name as those of the carnifex and hive tyrant, bio flail not saying anything about having to actially use it to get the attacks or whether these hit rolls replace any attacks at all or are in addition to the hit rolls for its regular attacks, malanthropes costing only about half the points of its power level, and the hierophant's options having no points values, not even 0s.

It also bugs me that neither of the hierodules have an equivalent to titanic feet.

[Mauler]

Jun 23, 2017 5:08:08 GMT jesses said:

Jun 23, 2017 5:03:49 GMT LordPathos said:

Is it just me or is the formatting on the names a little weird?

The person who scanned it used a desktop epub reader. FW makes kinda (please do not swear) epubs and the formatting is screwy on free readers.

GW's ePubs are fine; but they're the ePub3 standard which can cause two issues on sub-standard e-book readers: firstly they contain obsuf...obs...obsfucated...encrypted fonts which some readers don't support and are forced to use an incorrect font that's readily available on the system and secondly they aren't a fixed format meaning that the pages format and scale to the size of the display it's being viewed on.  Both of these together can make pages a mess on some readers but also prevent a LOT of conversion apps from converting from ePub to other formats properly...which is the point, I think.  Chrome has an app called Readium which reads GW e-books 100% fine.


But BEH.  While the price drop was thoroughly needed, the Scythed is still underwhelming.  Stunted range (my arse-paddle hellstorm is a LOT longer than 8" unless FW are using female inches, which as everyone knows are longer) and it's STILL somehow just has a Sv3+?!  I'm happier than I was but still disappointed in the drop of range on the acid but at least it's a lot more killy to targets in range if there's less of them than the old template system.  


YAYs:
The attacks remain the same, thankfully; given that FW have missed "...a pair of..." off of the scytals on the datasheet but they still get +1A and re-roll 1s to hit.
Can shoot in assault and it auto-hits.
More wounds!

NAYs:
It's slower by D6" thanks to losing the old Agile rule allowing it to run and fire.
The acid spray took a massive nerf in range (50% as a hellstorm bum-paddle is about 16") and while the AP is spot-on for what was an AP3 weapon it's now worse against MEq infantry but can more reliably damage vehicles.  Six of one...
Still just a 2+ save.  Seriously?!  Look at the damn armour plates on the thing!  Originally it has a Sv2+ in IA4 (a different Structure Points system but still) then was Sv3+ in IA4#2 and now that armour saves can be reduced it's still just 3+?  Not good enough in principle, now that it's vulnerable to small arms TBH.
EDIT: And no stomp equivalent.  WTF.

Overall, not impressed.  I'll still use my Scythed and I'm happy that the cost is now realistic but I expected better for the long wait.