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Post by acehilator on May 11, 2021 16:33:36 GMT
She could be "balanced" by her points cost, but the rules bloat is still insane. It's like the T7 -1 to wound Salamanders Captain, just bad rules writing plain and simple.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 11, 2021 19:12:34 GMT
2+4++4+++ half damage yikes! At least she is ONLY T5, leaves her a bit easier to wound with deathspitters and heavy flamers. Heavy bolters too but that half damage negates a lot of their potential. That still leaves her at 3+4+++ though so she would still not go down easily. Point for point I am not sure if warriors with dspitters or exocrines would do better and I don't have time to do the math. Either are terrible, but the Exo is slightly better base. Warriors w/ DS are 13.5 hits, 6.75 wounds, 2.23 failed Svs @ 1D a pop. Exo is 8 hits, 5.39 wounds, 2.68 failed Svs @ 1D a pop. The Exo can still benefit from Pathogenic since 3D rounds to 2D, so the ability to double damage and cost less points puts it pretty far ahead. S-Dule probably has the best answer in the shooting phase w/ 3.5 failed Svs, but Exo is better point for point @ 63 pts per failed Sv vs the S-Dule's 67 pts.
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Post by gigasnail on May 11, 2021 23:13:43 GMT
They throw darts at new model stats and always have. If NEW MODEL = OP RULEZ GAIZ!! was true, yeah, well mutilators wouldnt have been hot garbage for years.
Or toxicrenes.
Or the maleceptor.
Harpies.
Etc.
They've just been on a hot streak.
Power creep does seem nutty tho.
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Post by infornography on May 12, 2021 13:23:34 GMT
Yeah, I agree that the premise that all new models get OP rules to move plastic doesn't hold up to any level of scrutiny, but sometimes it feels that way due to how unbalanced (in both directions) new kits tend to be for a while. It takes GW a distressingly long time to sort out balance on new things and they have been throwing buckets of new things at imperial factions for a while which results in at least some of those becoming OP and raising the stock of those imperial factions.
Also the more options you have, the higher chance some of those options will be OP and SM have more options than probably the three largest non SM factions combined right now. If GW doesn't plan to retire firstborn (They likely do) then half the game will be space marines before long.
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Post by acehilator on May 12, 2021 15:42:07 GMT
Firstborn are not getting retired any time soon, it will be years. The models still hold up fine, size issues notwithstanding, but that's a problem for a lot of armies. Even if current SM sales are only 10% OldMarines, that's still more volume than Nids, or GSC, or Harlies, or IK at this point.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on May 12, 2021 15:59:48 GMT
Firstborn are not getting retired any time soon, it will be years. The models still hold up fine, size issues notwithstanding, but that's a problem for a lot of armies. Even if current SM sales are only 10% OldMarines, that's still more volume than Nids, or GSC, or Harlies, or IK at this point. I wholeheartedly believe they were going out but something happened (they realized said point above) and this is why they hurrily added that 2W. Better to force feed all Imperium just in case. Now they are just strictly better than Chaos and that makes neckbeards happy. They couldn't help themselves, and it lines up some creative room for Horus Heresy 2.0 which judging by the books and their focus lately it is soon. As for rules structure it is so much easier than everyone makes it. Old GW threw (please do not swear) at the wall and watched what stuck, new GW uses videogames DLC methodology now. Bring out new toon, toon OP, everyone buys toon, then everyone buys counter toon to said toon, then patch comes and nerfs toon, creating a new ripple. Printing money essentially. If you don't believe they are a profit run industry (look at that stock rise) then there is no need to change the mindset. Ignorance is bliss after all. Also, Nids are a poor example. GW hates Tyranids, but they love GSC, and they are an even better example of this. Codex is on third generation: 1. Genestealers spam 2. Aberrants and Neophytes and Outrider spam 3. Ridgerunners and trucks spam The only constant has been Acolytes and they are one of if not the most expensive troop in the game financially. Genestealers are hot garbage now, same with Aberrants. They will bring out a new melee kit next run and it will supercede the others. Almost expected Metamorph Aberrants with that kit but I am sure that rumour engine martyr charge will be it.
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Post by acehilator on May 12, 2021 17:31:41 GMT
Hive BahamutMaybe GW underestimated the amount of butthurt OldMarine diehard fans, but the 2W treatment was only logical. If they really had balls they would do a Civil War storyline (Papa Smurf vs some Lords of Terra feat Ecclisiarchy), but that's not HH 2.0 because no Chaos involved. The Bobby G. vs Morty novel comes out soon, so maybe it will be reflected in an upcoming campaign book (DG are still marauding around the Realm of Ultramar currently). But the DG vs Tau storyline is also still active, and other Chaos forces are not on the forefront of the narrative currently. With the way the Silent King was introduced, I am still reasonably sure that Necrons + Imperium vs Nids is going to be the story for 10th. In regards to new models = OP tinfoil hat theory, there is really not much merit to it. Maybe for the absolute most recent 9E releases, but there haven't been enough to really confirm the theory. For the releases during 8th, it just wasn't the case, like at all. It's the same with the FW = OP BS that gets shoveled all the time. For every Chaplain Dreadnought there are 50 datasheets sitting forlorn and forgotten. Also, that GW is not a NPO/charity should go without saying. Still doesn't make the above theories true. If anything, power creep is Codex/supplement driven (still highly debatable). But generally speaking in regards to that notion, I always go with one of my favourite rules in life: never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on May 13, 2021 17:39:15 GMT
See that uses examples and is a fact driven argument. These are very great points. I love debating and what I find a drag is how few people do it. Most prefer tantrums and superstition, or just invalidate by distractions. It is never a matter of right or wrong but discussion.
Incompetence instead of Malice is hilarious and I feel like some chapter has that as their slogan.
Active narratives unfortunately mean very little to nothing. Look an Ynnari and end of 7th. An entire edition slid by without touching on that at all, which was the entire focal point of Rebooté coming back. Where is Vect? Why do we still only have Magnus and Morty? Why did the Silent King actually come back?
8th was just a three tier beta, with IP focus and rebranding key. Many factions saw their generic leader released. 9th seems to be redoing troops.
So far 9th is not keeping a good record. Morty OP, Silent King OP, Belakor OP, Morvenn Vahl looks OP.
If you play against any of these models and aren't prepared/tailored you are in for a (please do not swear) game of 40k.
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Post by acehilator on May 13, 2021 18:31:40 GMT
Good question regarding more Primarchs, I would have expected at least one more at this point. Given the recent changes to release cycles etc., looks like GW operations got hit harder by Covid than it looked liked in the first year. The Silent King studied the Nids in the void outside the galaxy, and he doesn't like what he has seen.
8th was just the Primaris edition. The selection for other releases was just darts on a piece of paper. No rhyme or reason to it. Inconceivable that Eldar and DE didn't get more (like 5x more in the very least).
9th isn't really about troops. Necron got the most comprehensive line refresh in what...? Ever? Same with SoS. Now Orks are getting a substantial release with only one troop unit (there's two or three more releases on the way for them, in addition to what was already shown). AdMech aren't getting new troops either.
Silent King is not OP. Belekor not sure, but probably not. Morvenn all depends on points. Morty, yes. Ah lol.
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Post by purestrain on May 13, 2021 22:09:36 GMT
So she fights like swarmy, with similar stats but buffs units and has character protection, and half damage.
if shes 200ish points that means hive commander is like a 50 point upgrade lol
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Post by Hive Bahamut on May 15, 2021 6:58:26 GMT
Hive BahamutMaybe GW underestimated the amount of butthurt OldMarine diehard fans, but the 2W treatment was only logical. If they really had balls they would do a Civil War storyline (Papa Smurf vs some Lords of Terra feat Ecclisiarchy), but that's not HH 2.0 because no Chaos involved. The Bobby G. vs Morty novel comes out soon, so maybe it will be reflected in an upcoming campaign book (DG are still marauding around the Realm of Ultramar currently). But the DG vs Tau storyline is also still active, and other Chaos forces are not on the forefront of the narrative currently. With the way the Silent King was introduced, I am still reasonably sure that Necrons + Imperium vs Nids is going to be the story for 10th. In regards to new models = OP tinfoil hat theory, there is really not much merit to it. Maybe for the absolute most recent 9E releases, but there haven't been enough to really confirm the theory. For the releases during 8th, it just wasn't the case, like at all. It's the same with the FW = OP BS that gets shoveled all the time. For every Chaplain Dreadnought there are 50 datasheets sitting forlorn and forgotten. Also, that GW is not a NPO/charity should go without saying. Still doesn't make the above theories true. If anything, power creep is Codex/supplement driven (still highly debatable). But generally speaking in regards to that notion, I always go with one of my favourite rules in life: never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. Just to touch on that civil war bit. I feel that is exactly how the second Heresy does start. For me there is a few key notes here that line up too well. 1. Both mutated Geneseed chapters are on the Nihilus side. Both of these chapters were late to receive Primaris, and Blood Angels got "spanked" until Ka'Bandha who is literally their arch nemesis Mary sue'd the Nid Invasion. 2. Some of if not most of Reboote's ideology pushes the Eccliasarchy and other institutions of worship to their brink. 3. Old Marines seem to have an inherent distaste for their "replacements" and up until plot armour change there was no transition to Primaris. 4. Silent King has returned and Ynnari are present. Both of these seem to indicate some greater threat is imminent. 5. Chaos/Daemons have 0 Primaris, so if the Astartes didn't need the upgrades for the lack of xenos enemies, surely it is for another Daemon Primarch? I can tell you right now most armies pose 0 threat to the Imperium. If I could put a wishlist in it would be to see a chapter fall and another rise. Dark Angels are the obvious choice but I actually give it to Blood Angels or Wolves. Word Bearers aren't really bad guys anyways right? This would crush GW though, as you mentioned the amount of butthurt from 1W old marines clearly had enough impact could you imagine a dedicated army being flip flopped? (Oh wait we get that every run )
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Post by acehilator on May 15, 2021 18:55:55 GMT
Uhm... after the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Imperium is in it's worst shape it has been since the end of HH. One could argue that it's even worse now, no living Primarchs besides Bobby, loss of technology, chokehold of the Church, warp travel the most dangerous it has ever been. You neither need the threat of another Chaos Primarch nor something xeno specific to make the improvement of the SM arsenal a top priority. Also the characters in the universe wouldn't know when a Chaos Primarch might show up, with the potential exception of GK -> Angron on Armageddon, but the players would throw a hissy fit if GW released a third Chaos primarch before a second loyalist one.
Some kind of civil war storyline doesn't make it HH 2.0. Cannot have that without Chaos. And let's not kid ourselves, GW have made some improvements in how they handle their universe, but they don't have the balls do to a civil war.
The Ynnari vs Slaneesh storyline has completely fallen by the wayside, might also be something GW will pick up as filler for this edition.
BA and SW have fallen pretty hard already, about as hard as GW will ever allow. Also SW are not on the Nihilus side.
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on May 16, 2021 18:31:37 GMT
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Post by deedus on May 17, 2021 9:52:37 GMT
finally!
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Post by acehilator on May 17, 2021 18:13:41 GMT
Admech preview is up. Stygies VIII gets Dense Cover on most units if attacker outside 18"/12". Ryza gets +1 to wound on Charge/was charged/Heroic Intervention, AND a flat +1" to charges.
100% that something along the lines of the Ryza bonus will not be available for Nids nor GSC. So fethin' stupid.
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