2000 Iron Hands list

[snowdaman]

Ya same. I'm thinking of adjusting the list a little now that I know the tech marine can take the iron stone. Cause 4+ Iwnd is awesome. And better they get a 6.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards

[buzz]

Yeah with your list I'd worry about the techmarine staying alive and anti blob/horde/light infantry
you have alot of hig strength shots but not that many

you have much better field presence than my list though, thats my biggest problem
basically I have a small parking lot, 6 bikers, and 3 flyers

Have you thought about trying to drop pod the dreadnoughts?
do you need those 3 vindicators with all that las? (however ebin it is)

[snowdaman]

I plan on hiding the tech marine out if sight behind a wall of tanks.

And what better anti horde then 3 large blasts or one apoc.

Originally was going to go either s thunder fire cannon or three.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards

[buzz]

Yeah thats why I took the 3 whirlwinds
I want to see how shred works with a s5 ap4 barrage
both seem like good options though, also 9hp as opposed to 2w
but it does put out less firepower

[snowdaman]

Ya whirlwinds would be pretty nice.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards

[buzz]

Ok so I've been tinkering with it, mostly trying to make it fun more than competitive (I also HATE malestrom missions)
And I am thinking of playing the Steel Confessors chapter, they have interesting lore and I also have a war convocation I'd like to merge with it into a super fluffy 4000 pt list

Fist of Medusa Strike Force:2000pts

_Strike Force Command- 550
chapter Master 250
-Bike, AA, GC, Grav, AoM
command Squad-300
-apothecary, bikes, 4 grav, 4 SS, 4 power axes

_Strike force command-300
chaplin-90
honor Guard(7)-210
-banner, lances

_Armoured Task force-565
predator-115
-lasgun sponsons
predator-115
-lasgun sponsons
whirlwinds(3)-195
techmarine-140
-servo, iron stone, bike

_Honored ancients-150
Venerable Drednought-150
-2 TL autocannon or assault cannon, missle launcher

_Storm Wing-435
stormtalon-115
missles
stormtalon-115
missiles
stormraven-205
multimelta, extra armour

I'm still having trouble figuring out how to equipt the venerable dread assault cannon and missile launcher might be the best weapon platform but I'm not sure

[snowdaman]

I have always liked assault cannons personally. And missile launcher is also very versatile.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards

[buzz]

Yeah it has 1 more shot and is better vs MEQ by a good bit, plus the optional skyfire shot
I'm trying to decide if its worth taking the pred count to 2 to field it.
I'm thinking it mostly is because of the dreadnoughts deployment flexability

I'm just worried about the 24" assault cannon range being short.
But then again he can move and shoot, and will most likely be shooing at heavier infantry so I'd need the rending and S8 krak missle

[buzz]

I have another direction for this list,
if anyone is out there, tell me how this looks
Its alot less gimmicky and more competitive across the board where the previous was really just for Eternal war
Also its not just units I think are cool haha

Fist of Medusa Strike Force
Codex:Space Marines (Iron Hands)

**Strike Force Command**

chapter Master (265)
-Bike, AA, Gorgon Chain, axe of medusa, dig weapons, grav pistol

command Squad (345)
-apothecary, bikes, 4 grav, 4 SS, 4 power fists,

**Armoured Task force**

predator (115)
-lasgun sponsons

predator (115)
-lasgun sponsons

predator (115)
-lasgun sponsons

3x whirlwinds (195)

techmarine (140)
-servo, iron stone, bike

**1st company task force**
sternguard (145)
-drop pod

sternguard (145)
-drop pod

sternguard (145)
-drop pod

**Raptor Wing**
Stormtalon (115)
-missiles

Stormtalon (115)
-missiles

land speeder (45)

[snowdaman]

Looks good. I see you went for the powerfists.

I think this will work nice. The stern gaurd will do some damage and/or be a good distraction.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards

[buzz]

Yeah I dropped the stormraven/chaplin/honour guard unit
I think IWND drop pods will be kinda funny and if I keep them around my deathstar,
which idk how that will work out,
they will have fnp+5 like normal
I really need them to do middle infantry/MC hunting
Hopefully they will add some needed board control without handicapping the deathstar

And yeah thinking about it, powerfists are the way to go
cant get +1A with stormshields so why not?
I like how axes look, but I need the S8, They need to hit as hard as possible as I see it
enough to tie up/ damage another deathstar as much as possible

I plan on building both lists eventually, I just think honour guard pouring out of a stormraven with lances is too cool to pass up forever

[No One]

Don't play SM, so take with a touch of salt, but my thoughts:

Don't see the use of fists over axes, purely because of cost. When you consider that you should've got a grav volley off first, basically the only thing that could survive that and then axes, is probably something that could survive fists instead, and is something you really don't want to be in combat with. You're not actually that survivable compared to most of the deathstars around, which have some form of psychic support. You're T5, and every 6 wounds you take (not on the CM) will result in you losing a ~69 pt model, and will lose 1 for every 3 st 10 wounds.

Also not entirely sure what the point of the sternguard is, without combi? i.e. is their function something that wouldn't be performed better with 10 tacs. Because I think you've got enough las/grav for a bit of MC hunting, and if you really want that surety, combi-grav is probably better.

[snowdaman]

axes are ok, but i think going at int 1 for only a plus one bonus to str isn't worth it. If im going at int 1 i want to be double str. but thats personal choice. He had has axes before and i mentioned i used fists so maybe thats why he changed them.

as for the no psychic support, he could take some if he wanted. maybe he doesn't want to. as for a wound going though every 6 wounds, wouldn't that be every 9 wounds? 3++ so one in 3 get thought, and then 3+ fnp so only one in three get thought. so you would need 9 wounds for 3 to get though and then one to get though? and one for every 3 str 10. yes, but how many armies can throw that much str 10. and thats that much str 10 not at your vehicles or other things.

strengaurd have their special ammo. wound on 2+, ignore cover, ap 3 or extra range they can choose each round. makes them lots more versatile then normal tacs.

i cant say for certain but i think he wants them as a veritile drop units to help with feet on the ground and take out. as well as he wants to play the iron hands decurion so is limited to the formations there.

[buzz]

I appreciate the perspective NoOne, but S5 AP2 just isn't good enough for the points I've already put into the unit
The reason I have the power fists is just becase of the SS and grav
I can't get around using the stormshields with the command squad, and I don't need thunderhammers
Honesty I see the S8 as a necessity because of lack of hit and run/ lack of amount of attacks
And really anything with t4 a good invuln and FNP can last through 12 grav shots
which is a perfect unit for my deathstar to melee

As for the sternguard, I just figured I'd ust the special issue ammo as much as possible because thats why I'm taking them
Combi plas would be a good idea because of the preferred enemy in the 1st company task force
but then again they are mostly for board control and adapting to the enemy

[No One]

snowdaman said:

as for the no psychic support, he could take some if he wanted. maybe he doesn't want to.

That...wasn't my point. My point was that most deathstars now have some form of psychic support (Edit: Or at least, most that I'm familiar with), usually invis. Considering how ineffective this squad is (axe or fist) against something with a 3++? Against a squad with invis/reroll saves, they're going to bog you down for the rest of the game (you're doing less than 1 wound on the charge). If they're TWC (and thus S 10), or have more attacks than you, they're probably going to win.

3++ so one in 3 get thought, and then 3+ fnp so only one in three get thought. so you would need 9 wounds for 3 to get though and then one to get though? and one for every 3 str 10. yes, but how many armies can throw that much str 10. and thats that much str 10 not at your vehicles or other things.

Ah, wasn't familiar with the command benefit - makes it much more appealing. As for S 10 - TWC, knights and wraithcannons are the only real ones I can think of. And demolisher cannons, but I don't think they're exactly commonly taken. Was more an aside.

strengaurd have their special ammo. wound on 2+, ignore cover, ap 3 or extra range they can choose each round. makes them lots more versatile then normal tacs.

I know - the thing is, special ammo still isn't that threatening. In rapid fire: MCs - ~2 wounds (with 3+). Ignores cover: Hordes - 5 dead. Jinking bikers - 0.5 dead. AP 3 - ~2 dead depending on cover.
If you want to kill stuff, give them some upgrades. If you don't want to kill stuff...ob sec tacs on an objective are probably going to be better.

buzz said:

I appreciate the perspective NoOne, but S5 AP2 just isn't good enough for the points I've already put into the unit
The reason I have the power fists is just becase of the SS and grav
I can't get around using the stormshields with the command squad, and I don't need thunderhammers
Honesty I see the S8 as a necessity because of lack of hit and run/ lack of amount of attacks
And really anything with t4 a good invuln and FNP can last through 12 grav shots
which is a perfect unit for my deathstar to melee

Huh, had missed that you only had the 4 - drop the grav pistol from the HQ (because it's basically harmless) and give the veteran a grav gun (probably shield as well) and then upgrade to apothecary. Since it doesn't replace with narthecium, you get to keep it (see the SM FAQ).

As for your lack of attacks being an issue...yes. They are. This squad is pretty harmless against something with a good invul - and guess what? That doesn't change if you give them fists. 5 (I did the maths with 5, can't be stuffed redoing) guys with fists are doing ~2 wounds against T5 3++, while 5 guys with axes do slightly over 1 (this is on the charge). Against T4 multi wound with an invul, yes fists will do better. But they'll still be pretty harmless if they've got a half decent invul - against hounds, fists kill slightly less than 2. Axes kill 1. Again, on the charge. And that's you gone for the game (well, maybe not, since I'm being lazy and not including CM since he doesn't change, but still).

And...I can't really think of many T4 multi wound with feel no pain and a half decent invul. And you've got a bit of las to shoot them if they're an issue. If they're not, well ignore or kill them slowly while you tank. But really - I'd say you're better off just using grav to kill stuff, and axes (or lances/swords whatever. I'd go with axes for the ap 2) to finish them off, or to mulch a small squad, or as a last resort if you get charged. Because this is not a major threat to stuff with a decent invul - you'll probably bog them down for ages with your 3++/3++ (unless they're s 10), and you might even win if they've only got an invul, but you'll almost certainly be there for multiple turns, and you will take casualties.

There might be something I'm missing here...but the minor increase in damage does not seem worth it for 50 pts. Because it is a minor increase in damage against basically everything I can think of. Either grav's doing some serious damage, and thus axes should be plenty to finish the squad, or you're not going to do a whole lot, fists or not.