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Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2016 7:01:12 GMT
also, there is an issue in army builder with wulfen. the pack leaders have no option to be armed with anything other than X2 claws in the rules, however, AB will let you put w/e weapons you want on them, charge you for them, but never alter the strength of model from if he was packing claws, and will lower your I to 1.
there also seems to be a problem where i can't always select a wolf lord as my warlord. dunno why, sometimes i can.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2016 7:47:31 GMT
ok so going to go with something more like yours, since it's getting late and i'm tired of agonizing over it. this is a melee army, and a VSG is a must-take. i was distracted by shinies and a wealth of choice, i'm sorry it won't happen again ;; tried to fit in wolf lords and wolves, but the points stack up quickly. wulfen and TWC are crazy expensive when you start adding upgrades.
1850/1850 company of the GW lvl 2 rune priest, rune armor, bike, fellclaw's teeth, WL servitor servitor pod pod TWC X6, X4 fist/shield, X2 claw/shield VSG, X3 shields company of the GW lvl 2 rune priest, rune armor, bike lvl 2 rune priest, rune armor, bike servitor servitor pod murderpack X5 wulfen, pack leader/claws, X2 axe, X2 TH/SS, frag launcher X5 wulfen, pack leader/claws, X4 TH/SS, frag launcher X5 wulfen, pack leader/claws, X4 TH/SS
looks like it plays simply enough. the TH/SS wulfen take at least one pod and drop somewhere danger-close and inconvenient. servitors out of sight or in other pods to objectives. priests on bikes w/ TWC get buffed by wulfen and everything runs at whatever there is. probably best to pod both the TH/SS wulfen, one, even as tough as a 2 wound 3++ FNP unit is, is still vulnerable to S8 (T4) and volume of fire.
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Post by shadowfinder on Jun 1, 2016 16:10:39 GMT
ok so going to go with something more like yours, since it's getting late and i'm tired of agonizing over it. this is a melee army, and a VSG is a must-take. i was distracted by shinies and a wealth of choice, i'm sorry it won't happen again ;; tried to fit in wolf lords and wolves, but the points stack up quickly. wulfen and TWC are crazy expensive when you start adding upgrades. 1850/1850 company of the GW lvl 2 rune priest, rune armor, bike, fellclaw's teeth, WL servitor servitor pod pod TWC X6, X4 fist/shield, X2 claw/shield VSG, X3 shields company of the GW lvl 2 rune priest, rune armor, bike lvl 2 rune priest, rune armor, bike servitor servitor pod murderpack X5 wulfen, pack leader/claws, X2 axe, X2 TH/SS, frag launcher X5 wulfen, pack leader/claws, X4 TH/SS, frag launcher X5 wulfen, pack leader/claws, X4 TH/SS looks like it plays simply enough. the TH/SS wulfen take at least one pod and drop somewhere danger-close and inconvenient. servitors out of sight or in other pods to objectives. priests on bikes w/ TWC get buffed by wulfen and everything runs at whatever there is. probably best to pod both the TH/SS wulfen, one, even as tough as a 2 wound 3++ FNP unit is, is still vulnerable to S8 (T4) and volume of fire. LoL Nice to see your thought process. Mine was like that too. Looking at all the options. It is crazy. The sky hammer interest me but I don't know the rules for it. I think it would work well with the concept you just have to leave out other goodies. Your list is nice. The rune priest will kill the Fleet reroll for the thunder wolves. I tried dropping just one unit of wulfen at the storm of Silance and it was effective. But I would have done better if I had dropped two. I feel two is the Sweet spot for drop Wulfen. The thunder wolf unit has too many fist in it. You are going to lose some to shooting. For my self 2 in the unit is the sweet spot. one claw on the unit champion works well to kill power claws and armor 3 hero's. That gives you 3 storm shields to use as extra wounds shields for the fist in the unit. Bye dropping the two fist our you can get your to rune priest upgraded to company commanders that both have a 2+, 3+, and a fist. This will give you two missiles that can split off the thunder wolf unit to hit other more units. The relic felclaw shines on these guys. Please let me know how the pack leaders work out. For units in my drop pods I haven't gotten the claws to work. The die to shooting or I fight something with a armor value like a dred, IK and the do nothing. I like them but they have been doing nothing for me. The axe's I like a lot as they can hurt everything. If you decide t go the Death Pack formation. I would go with 4 wolfen units though to get the 50% chance of Double movement. You will need to make a choice of having the VSG ( With the GW new FAQ it is not so good in the ITC format) or go The Conclave to get powers to help the army to survive. This is the route I am thinking of going depending on the Vote for the ITC in June-July. My area is almost all ITC format. One last thought. A option you may want to think about is to go for just 2 Squads of Wulfen in a drop pod. Forgo the 30% Movement bonus the Wulfen give out with the 3rd unit and take the Death Pack instead. You can then afford the Sky hammer or the conclave. This allows you to setup nasty turn two charge combos. I will look at sjyhammer and see if I can make it work.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2016 19:06:41 GMT
Noted. I don't have as many options with SW just because of the models; don't have a whole bunch converted up yet.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2016 20:36:52 GMT
another note: if you're using armybuilder, be careful. as i posted on the other page, when you make a wulfen pack leader, it automatically includes the claws on their profile (as it's your only option in the book). however, it will still let you buy the other weapons. i had done this with the version where i tried to fit skyhammer in. it frees up quite a few points when you do it right...one moment and i'll have this straightened out.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2016 20:58:17 GMT
ok so the skyhammer list is re-ordered:
1850/1850 deathpack lord, helm, runic armor, fist/shield, TWC wulf wulf grey hunters X5, X4 CCW, meltagun TWC, pack leader w/ claw/shield, claw/shield, X3 PF/SS murderpack X5 wulfen, pack leader w/ claws, X2 axe, TH/SS + launcher, TH/SS X5 wulfen, pack leader w/ claws, X2 axe, TH/SS + launcher, TH/SS skhyhammer annihilation force AM X10, PF sgt AM X5, PF sgt X5 dev, X4 grav cannon/amp, pod X5 dev, X4 MM, pod
it's decidedly unpleasant but still vulnerable to getting shot first turn as no VSG and no way to influence the seize roll/go first, but at least i was able to fit the unit in the points. i thought something was screwy...
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2016 21:31:10 GMT
deathpack + murderpack + conclave
deathpack lord, TWC, helm, fist/shield, runic wulf wulf grey hunters X5 w/ CCW, pod TWC X6, pack leader shield/claw, shield/claw, X4 PF/shield
murderpack X5 wulfen, leader w/ claws, X2 axe, th/ss + launcher, th/ss X5 wulfen, leader w/ claws, X2 axe, th/ss + launcher, th/ss X5 wulfen, leader w/ claws, X2 axe, th/ss + launcher, th/ss
WS librarius lvl 2 bike libby, mace lvl 2 bike libby, mace lvl 2 bike libby, mace
the bikes will loose you fleet on the TWC, but, they gain you skilled rider and hit and run. a DA CAD is still probably the best fit for this with azrael and company. list is still vulnerable to alpha strike.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2016 22:04:36 GMT
ok so using the 'no powers' version and revamping from your earlier advice to replace the bike priests w/ TWC lords, while still using the hammer/anvil approach:
company of the greatwolf lord, TWC, runic, fist/shield, fellclaw's teeth, WL wulf wulf servitor, HB servitor, HB drop pod drop pod TWC, X5: pack leader w/ claw/shield, meltabombs, claw/shield, claw/shield, fist/shield, fist/shield VSG, X3 shields
company of the greatwolf lord, TWC, runic, fist/shield wulf wulf servitor, HB servitor pod
murderpack X5 wulfen, pack leader claws, X2 axe, th/ss, th/ss + launcher X5 wulfen, pack leader claws, axe, X2 TH/SS, TH/SS + launcher X5 wulfen, pack leader claws, axe, X2 TH/SS, TH/SS + launcher
this gives the TWC some ablative wounds w/ the fenrisian wolves and lets me peel a wolf lord off to donkey punch something if needed. two units of drop wulfen, one hangs back w/ TWC. HB servitors because points were wonky, couldn't add anything else. VSG is on the table. i think this is the list i will play today.
if i don't get stood up. again. it's 3 and still no call, not a good look!
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Post by shadowfinder on Jun 2, 2016 6:06:19 GMT
Good luck. If you are wanting to do characters. I been looking at the Harald of the wolf. The have some crazy rules but can add IC to them. The could be a really interesting heart of a death star.
Read the rules on them. The ignore wound and +1 to stealing, a few other crazy thing. If you are wanting to go wolf Lords and the Conclave it's a really good start.
I like your last list for over all balance . And the first one as it doesn't care if your opponent can alpha strike of not. You could null deploy if needed.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 2, 2016 6:54:51 GMT
Good luck. If you are wanting to do characters. I been looking at the Harald of the wolf. The have some crazy rules but can add IC to them. The could be a really interesting heart of a death star. Read the rules on them. The ignore wound and +1 to stealing, a few other crazy thing. If you are wanting to go wolf Lords and the Conclave it's a really good start. I like your last list for over all balance . And the first one as it doesn't care if your opponent can alpha strike of not. You could null deploy if needed. yeah, i got a game in today. i ruthlessly slaughtered my friend, we called it at the top of turn 2. he brought war convocation as i thought he was going to, instead of DA like he hinted he was bringing (he is notorious for pulling this lol). we rolled up purge the alien, dawn of war, just straight book mission b/c i had forgot to print up any ITC mission sheets. all good. i won the roll off, chose to go first. deploy around the VSG, servitors on top of it (i was proxying a bastion), TWC + lords and one unit of wulfen around it, two wulfen in pods, one pod empty. he deploys his knight on his table edge across from me, some scouts in a 3 story building in front of the knight, some unit of snipers or something in the first floor of this building, some 2 wound assault dudes with culexis infiltrate behind some LoS terrain off to my left (but not far off the center line), the spider walker thing just off to the side of the knight, and some big tall skinny walker off to the right, with his destroyers in 2 pods and some more shooty guys in a 3rd pod w/ sang priest. he fails to seize, i even give him the chance to just take first turn and he decides against it. the wulfen buff the TWC with the +3" move/run/charge. they move right up the middle 15", then make a 12" assault roll to run right up into the sniper guys on the first floor. they exploded into a pink mist, as things do when charged by 7 TWC with fists and claws. two units of wulfen land and i try to use the pods to block the knight but one scatters back toward my lines and to the left., wulfen run up some to get into position. it looks a little janky though b/c i'm facing two pods with destroyers dropping in and a knight right up in my grill. i've never run this army, so i'm somewhat apprehensive. the culexis and those infiltrator kill guys are close, too. and i had run away from my VSG, because i am derp and was sure i could get stuck in with the TWC (didn't think i'd get so many into combat range though, didn't mean to kill them all). so, things could get dumb for me fast, right? then, he used the buffs that gave his mechanicus units +3WS/-2BS, and +3S. so, his drop podded destroyers were hitting me on 6's. i asked him wtf he was doing because it didn't make any sense, why would you reduce your drop grav death machines to BS1?? so he moves his culexis and the infiltrator kill guys right in front of my TWC and one of the wulfen units, and starts shooting. his grav guys do a single unsaved wound to a wulfen (hitting on 6's, wounding on 4's with a 3++ and FNP). his knight drops double battle cannon on my TWC, doing 3 wounds, and then scatters his 2nd shot onto his assaulty kill guys, killing all but 2, who break and run. i save everything but 1 wound from his battle cannon, which went on the WL because i failed a LoS. he assaults with the knight and the culexis, and i'm tryign to figure out wtf he was doing with his buffs earlier and he said 'well i was going to assault you with those guys the knight blew up, they're nasty and all buffed up etc etc' so i'm like "...dude. you can't assault with infiltrators on T1." he sighs and pulls the culexis back out of assault, because it's an infiltrator, too. the look on his face, i felt reaaal bad. it only got worse for him from there. the TWC violated the knight, the lord did 5 HP by himself, LoS'd 2 Dsword hits (TWC does not react well to a 6 on the D chart, wulf go squish). knight explodes, killing 2 fwolves, my warlord, and 2 more knights, and half his scouts up in that building. nearly got his culexis but he was like an inch out of the blast. so, my turn 2, the wulfen give the TWC the +3" buff again and i assault the culexis with one wolf squad, multi assault his skinny walker and one unit of destroyers with the 2nd wulfen unit, and hit the destroyers with the 2nd lord and rest of the TWC. 18 overwatch grav shots + 9 auto hits from the cognis flamer are soaked by the two fwolves in front, so i assault a walker and the destroyer + domnis unit with a 4 man wulfen unit + a wolflord and 3 TWC. a full wulfen units gets into combat with the culexis, who does 1 wound which is saved on a shield, then explodes into goo. he called the game at this point and said he was never playing against wulfen again. tl;dr: it was a very different game than i was expecting. he should have not used the WS buff (obviously), and should have split his guys up and made me go after them individually, while shooting the piss out of me. i don't think it would have made a lot of difference, but i'd have taken some casualties and it would have gone on to turn 4 or 5. if we were doing ITC/progressive he might have had a chance to take 2ndary, but i dunno. in ITC the knight would have been worth a lot of points (both for KP and for the two maelstrom points for the 6 HP done). list did well enough; but against a cagier opponent i dunno. the wulfen units are somewhat durable, but, they're still expensive T4's and die to bad luck and volume of fire. while the axe and claw guys wreck absolute face, not having shields on them make it dicey. might just go with X4 TH/SS and one pack leader, or all 5 th/ss. needs thought. i do not know if i could have run down an eldar player like this, though it does laugh at warp spiders and WK.
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Post by shadowfinder on Jun 2, 2016 18:16:16 GMT
What do think of the list concept?
Odd that he didn't go with the shooting first.
What adjustments would you make after playing it. Was one unit of thunder wolves all that's needed? Wold some powers be good? Or would it be better to go all battle commanders and Lords?
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 2, 2016 23:24:59 GMT
I would want to play it more before making real changes. This was not a real test.
The TWC can probably do all the things the wulfen can do, except ride in a pod.
Fellclaw's teeth is an amazing relic for a melee character. That's a keeper.
I like this list, there is no relying on psykers, it's good on its own and the movement buffs are gravy.
However, there is also no FNP for the TWC or skilled rider or hit and run. My original list was with a BA CAD for sanguinary priest on a bike but I purposely toned it down some b/c my friend is derp and I didn't want to make the regular death star that I knew he wouldn't be able to deal with. Might add in the flesh tearer's taxi service or something, along with the death pack and murder pack if I look at doing this for reals.
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Post by shadowfinder on Jun 3, 2016 21:15:13 GMT
I am swapping the lvl 1 for a battle commander with a 2+,3++, and rerolls to hit. I am dropping one fist from the thunder wolf unit to make point's.
Will try to give a report of how the first day went. And then the second.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 4, 2016 2:11:11 GMT
My lord was 2+/3++ fist/shield with the reroll to hit relic. Very much worth it.
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Post by shadowfinder on Jun 5, 2016 17:16:31 GMT
So far I have a 1-1-1. The army been working great. More later.
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