3 wolf list which is best for ITC

[shadowfinder]

Warring this is A Castle of Text.

I have a couple of ways to field the New Wolves. I just can't seam to pick one so I am asking for
some thoughts on 3 list I am thinking of running. Comments on these are wanted. Preface I don't
normally play Imperial armies. I am a Tyranid player. With that in mind my ideas may not be good in a competitive field. Please let me know. I was thinking about the Great Wolf Detachment instead of CAD. For a pure offense list it maybe the better choice..

This list tries to use the double movement idea. With 3 fast units.

+++ (1844pts) +++

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Wulfen Murderpack
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Iron Priest [Helfrost pistol, Tempest Hammer, Thunderwolf]

+ Troops +

Blood Claws [Rhino]
··7x Blood Claw [7x Bolt Pistol, 7x Chainsword]

Blood Claws
··5x Blood Claw [5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Chainsword]
··Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

+ Fast Attack +

Thunderwolf Cavalry
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Chainsword, Storm Shield]

Thunderwolf Cavalry
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw]

Thunderwolf Cavalry
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Chainsword, Storm Shield]

List 2 tries to work on the speed idea as well. It uses a death Pack formation to get the best range for it's buck. With run and charge I feel it gets the best use of the double movement and the +3 inches of movement. With a 66% chance of getting some type of extra movement.
+++ New Roster (1847pts) +++

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Wolf Guard Battle Leader [2x Fenrisian Wolf, Thunderwolf]
··Runic Armour [Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer]

+ Troops +

Blood Claws
··5x Blood Claw [5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Chainsword]

Blood Claws [Rhino]
··5x Blood Claw [5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Chainsword]

+ Fast Attack +

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Thunderwolf Cavalry
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Chainsword, Storm Shield]

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

"Deathpack"
··Grey Hunters
····5x Grey Hunter [5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Bolter]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw]
··Wolf Lord [2x Fenrisian Wolf, Thunderwolf]
····Runic Armour [Power Fist, Storm Shield]

Wulfen Murderpack
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
I
The last list goes for a more balanced approach with luck sometimes playing a role. If it happens, great if not will it wasn't needed. The drop pod is to get that one maelstrom point of being in the other guys deployment. It can take the lone wolf or the wolfin depending on the mission.

With both types of priest I get a fearless turn two attacking unit with a chance at powers that can help the advance unit. Been leaning toward Biomancey as a take all comer's power that helps this army type. thoughts on powers as I am not using to BRB powers.
+++ New Roster (1850pts) +++

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

"Deathpack"
··Grey Hunters
····5x Grey Hunter [5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Bolter]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw]
··Wolf Lord [Thunderwolf]
····Runic Armour [Power Fist, Storm Shield]

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (IK Oathsworn Detachment) ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Warden [Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Stormspear Rocket Pod]

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (SW Company of the Great Wolf Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Rune Priest [Bike, Psyker Mastery Level 2, Rune Axe]
··Power Armour [Bolt Pistol]

Wolf Priest [Bike]
··Power Armour [Bolt Pistol]

+ Elites +

Lone Wolf [Melta Bombs]
··Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

Wulfen
··Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
··Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
··Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
··Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]

+ Fast Attack +

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Thunderwolf Cavalry
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Chainsword, Storm Shield]


Thanks guys for you help on this.


One question if I join IC to the Death-pack thunderwolves. Can they still run and charge?
The lord of the formation gives the unit the means to run and charge every turn. the unit doesn't
the rule to do so natively.
Just checking, as I don't want to cheat someone.

[Deleted]

I'm going to vote list 1, but I really really don't think more than 1-2 wulfen per squad should be without a stormshield. I'd lean heavily towards 1 per squad.

Wulfen getting killed to shooting is a horrendous waste of points. Die as easy as tyranid warriors. Plus without power-weapons they're really not very intimidating at all in my opinion, whereas the cavalry are at least still really fast and can have a 3++ and rending.

Would have to re-read the formation rule specifically word for word to give you an answer to your question.

[Kark]

Overall, I don't know ITC meta, but I can have few tips

-If You are running TWC, give them all storm shield and powerfists. PFs are cheaper than THs with same S9 and AP2.

-Wulfen are great in drop pods. All their weapon options are sweet, but thunder hammer and storm shields is the best (ID to necrons)

-SW form nice combo with DA - ravenwing command squad (hit and run) with apothecary (fnp) and 2+/2+ cover save for dark shroud (it's ok to take two ). This unit can be joined by iron priests on thunderwolves and/or wolf lords/battle leaders on thunderwolves to provide S9AP2 attacks from powerfists/thunder hammers, 2+ save, 3++ and fnp for apothecary. You can go further and include librarius conclave on bikes with force axes.

-SW with 2-3 dreadknights are also nice with more S10 attacks

-stormbringer squadron (formation from kauyon supplement) - scouts in landspeeders are very good for mealstrom purposes (obsec on scouts). This works well with wolfstar unit (SW+DA I wrote above).

In general I'd only use thunderwolf ICs like iron priests, battle leaders optionally wolf/rune priest with jump pack, TWC and wulfen from SW codex.

[shadowfinder]

Mar 24, 2016 20:15:13 GMT Kark said:

Overall, I don't know ITC meta, but I can have few tips

-If You are running TWC, give them all storm shield and powerfists. PFs are cheaper than THs with same S9 and AP2.

-Wulfen are great in drop pods. All their weapon options are sweet, but thunder hammer and storm shields is the best (ID to necrons)

-SW form nice combo with DA - ravenwing command squad (hit and run) with apothecary (fnp) and 2+/2+ cover save for dark shroud (it's ok to take two ). This unit can be joined by iron priests on thunderwolves and/or wolf lords/battle leaders on thunderwolves to provide S9AP2 attacks from powerfists/thunder hammers, 2+ save, 3++ and fnp for apothecary. You can go further and include librarius conclave on bikes with force axes.

-SW with 2-3 dreadknights are also nice with more S10 attacks

-stormbringer squadron (formation from kauyon supplement) - scouts in landspeeders are very good for mealstrom purposes (obsec on scouts). This works well with wolfstar unit (SW+DA I wrote above).

In general I'd only use thunderwolf ICs like iron priests, battle leaders optionally wolf/rune priest with jump pack, TWC and wulfen from SW codex.

Running the thunderwovle all with power fist and storm shield crazy expensive. you are going to lose a few to shooting and in combat it is nice to have a few units killing at I 4. I don't know where you play but thunderwolvs have str 10 with PFs.

I am playing pure space wolves with maybe a Imperial Knight. Thanks for the comments.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I stick to my vote, but I think you should drop a unit of cav to kit out the wulfen.

The TWC don't NEED the PF's as much(I'd still do at least 1 per squad of joined iron priest on TW), but the wulfen without SS for me is a huge point of hesitation.

I usually only run 2 squads of TWC but give them all at bare minimum power swords+SS. I like to do meltabombs on the character, and a PF on the standard rider.

The way I see it, you have 6 functioning mini-deathstars. I think you'd be fine going down 1(down to 5) in order to make the slower ones more survivable. That 4+ is gonna get you nowhere, and wulfen even with the 3++ will die to volume of fire.

EDIT: this is for my personal preference, not saying your list would do badly. Just seems to me there's a lot of units they're more likely to tie up rather than beat in CC, and I know tau lists eat Wulfen that don't have shields

[shadowfinder]

Mar 26, 2016 20:41:31 GMT @nidsinrva said:

Yeah, I stick to my vote, but I think you should drop a unit of cav to kit out the wulfen.

The TWC don't NEED the PF's as much(I'd still do at least 1 per squad of joined iron priest on TW), but the wulfen without SS for me is a huge point of hesitation.

I usually only run 2 squads of TWC but give them all at bare minimum power swords+SS. I like to do meltabombs on the character, and a PF on the standard rider.

The way I see it, you have 6 functioning mini-deathstars. I think you'd be fine going down 1(down to 5) in order to make the slower ones more survivable. That 4+ is gonna get you nowhere, and wulfen even with the 3++ will die to volume of fire.

EDIT: this is for my personal preference, not saying your list would do badly. Just seems to me there's a lot of units they're more likely to tie up rather than beat in CC, and I know tau lists eat Wulfen that don't have shields

I have moved the list around a little. I added to caster in the rune priest to give me some option with powers. That and they have power weapon built in. The wolfen have gotten a big buff. I am thinking of dropping the one unit in the backfield turn one to make people pick between the them or the slower thunderwolf cav unit on turn two. Is 3 SS good or should it be 4. The rest of the units will be hiding in ruins or advancing as needed.


I thinking of changing the challenges Lord setup to power fist storm shield and just normal armor. it would allow me some extra point to help with the wolfen or the other thunder wolf unit. As for the Servitors I was thinking of getting one of them at lest a rhino to hide in. I don't know yet.
+++ Wolf Pounce (1850pts) +++

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (SW Company of the Great Wolf Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Rune Priest [Bike, Psyker Mastery Level 2, Rune Axe]
··Power Armour [Bolt Pistol]

Rune Priest [Bike, Psychic Hood, Psyker Mastery Level 2, Rune Sword]
··Power Armour [Bolt Pistol]

+ Elites +

Servitors [Servitor]

Servitors [Servitor]

+ Fast Attack +

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Thunderwolf Cavalry
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw]

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

"Deathpack"
··Grey Hunters
····5x Grey Hunter [5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Bolter]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw]
··Wolf Lord [Thunderwolf, Warlord]
····Armour of Russ [Pair of Wolf Claws]

Wulfen Murderpack
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Stormfrag Auto-Launcher, Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Dual Frost Claws, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Dual Frost Claws, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]

[gigasnail]

might want to move your frag launchers around; you only need 1 in a unit, plus whatever redundancy you feel the need for. you have three in one unit and only 1 in the others.

[shadowfinder]

Mar 27, 2016 5:04:41 GMT gigasnail said:

might want to move your frag launchers around; you only need 1 in a unit, plus whatever redundancy you feel the need for. you have three in one unit and only 1 in the others.

3 frag launchers are in the one unit is they are using the drop pod first turn. That I had 5 points left so it was a melta bomb or extra shooting on a unit that may be in range first turn.

The other two units are protecting the back field hiding in ruins going to ground if need be if the great to see action good if not.

To be honest I don't know about taking the frost claws in the drop pod unit. I been thinking about taking one more shield and maybe a axe. The str 8 will be able to hurt Wraith knights Riptids, stormsurge and Imperial Knights which will be more likely targets. That extra shield may spell survival.

Not sure of I should spend the points on it or not. 240 for a distraction unit seam extreme but I guess I pay that with a trygon with my Tyranids and he is a lot less survivable. with the FNP and 3++ you can't ask for much more.


Question for everyone. Which powers would you roll on?
I am looking at Bio or santic. I don't have much experience using the BRB powers. I like the Idea of 2++ units rolling around. or thunder wolves with 4+ FNP is pretty nice as well.

[gigasnail]

Eh, it's S4 AP5 d3 shots so for sure it's better than sitting there doing nothing when they get out of the pod, but it's not like it's grav or melta we're talking about here.

[Deleted]

Biomancy imo.

Endurance on thunderwolf cav is brutal. ID protection + that FnP makes them near impossible to rip off the table.

EDIT: plus if you insist on not taking full stormshield units of wulfen, endurance can make a big difference on the squishier units.

[shadowfinder]

Mar 27, 2016 23:08:24 GMT gigasnail said:

Eh, it's S4 AP5 d3 shots so for sure it's better than sitting there doing nothing when they get out of the pod, but it's not like it's grav or melta we're talking about here.

True and its four point that is why they have it. I had nothing really that was better. Spreading one to another unit seam a waste.

Now other then the small amount of shooting. What do you think of the list. 5 flyrants spam I feel will be irritating. Any other counters I need to think of.

I should think about with this list. This list really wants to go first badly. I should be able to reach anything I wish. For the most part.

Any thoughts on the Powers for the Rune Priest?

[shadowfinder]

Mar 28, 2016 2:08:28 GMT @nidsinrva said:

Biomancy imo.

Endurance on thunderwolf cav is brutal. ID protection + that FnP makes them near impossible to rip off the table.

I was thinking the same. If I don't get it most of the powers make the rune priest really good.

Sanctic is high risk high reward I feel. But I think a 2++ on thunderwolf cav. is good and so is +2 str on the normal cav units. str 7 or 8 with rending is nice.

[gigasnail]

Mar 28, 2016 2:08:38 GMT shadowfinder said:

Mar 27, 2016 23:08:24 GMT gigasnail said:

Eh, it's S4 AP5 d3 shots so for sure it's better than sitting there doing nothing when they get out of the pod, but it's not like it's grav or melta we're talking about here.

True and its four point that is why they have it. I had nothing really that was better. Spreading one to another unit seam a waste.

Now other then the small amount of shooting. What do you think of the list. 5 flyrants spam I feel will be irritating. Any other counters I need to think of.

I should think about with this list. This list really wants to go first badly. I should be able to reach anything I wish. For the most part.

Any thoughts on the Powers for the Rune Priest?

anything with high volume of fire, mobility, S:D, and units that are durable enough to live through their initial assault and stomp. MSU objective secured armies.

i concur on the priests, biomancy for CC units is always great.

[shadowfinder]

Mar 28, 2016 2:40:58 GMT gigasnail said:

Mar 28, 2016 2:08:38 GMT shadowfinder said:

True and its four point that is why they have it. I had nothing really that was better. Spreading one to another unit seam a waste.

Now other then the small amount of shooting. What do you think of the list. 5 flyrants spam I feel will be irritating. Any other counters I need to think of.

I should think about with this list. This list really wants to go first badly. I should be able to reach anything I wish. For the most part.

Any thoughts on the Powers for the Rune Priest?

anything with high volume of fire, mobility, S:D, and units that are durable enough to live through their initial assault and stomp. MSU objective secured armies.

i concur on the priests, biomancy for CC units is always great.

Bio it is then. Need to go first every game too. Lets see where luck falls

Will focus my practice on that. If can get this army painted and tested before the end of next month. Personally I want to just run and assault thing turn one. I don't expect great things from the list but ignoring the most popular phase ( shooting ) I should have fast games, that go to completion. One way or the other..

With tau going monster mash... Crying inside. Who ever thought Tau would out monster mash Tyranids!!!? Tears man, the tears. I can gut most of that army if I get to go first. Just stay away from the stormsurges tell later.

Eldar I just have to catch I guess. Spider spam I think will not be as bad as I don't shoot them and ima as fast as they are or faster depending on the roll. This list is not all that scared of the wraith knight either. Will have to see. A bike spam list could be a big issue though.

Glad. formation will be a pain but I should be able to kill their mobility quickly. I have been playing vs the DA version. Good I hate all the shooting. Every games been close. I think White scars will me easier to handle honestly but I don't know as I have not played it. From what I have seen the tend to scoot forward a lot which is good for my army.

Crons are a mix bag. If they bring death cult I should be ok as the number of shots are low.

[Deleted]

Yeah with blue tide lists, mastering the multi-charge is important. I had no idea how significant/useful multi-charge could be until my friend started rocking a green tide 1850 on the regular.

A lot of those will be MSU though, and you'll charge in and carve up pretty easily.

On tau, line of sight/screen wulfen with t-wolf cav imo. Not much else I can offer.

Eldar is line of sight but mostly spreading out enough to not lose the objective game, hoping for a big charge on WK's if possible with enough attacks.

Crons are....eh. Avoid lychguard deathstars(and wraiths), but besides that nothing they have should slow you too much.