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Post by Nightmare20 on Aug 18, 2014 23:17:34 GMT
Honestly I would be happy with these:
Models in Synapse benefit depending on IB. Prefered Enemy in CC for Feed. Prefered Enemy while shooting for Hunt. Stealth for Lurk.
Lictors can challenge like characters and have Shroud and Invisibility.
Deathleapers shooting and close combat attacks rendand instant death on a 5-6.
Old One Eye is 160 points and has FNP 4+.
Swarmlord has EW and a 4++.
Raveners have access to biomorphs.
Shadow in the warp should act as a psychic hood for any units targeted by enemy psykers within the radius. (Reverse psychic hood).
And honestly I feel like all biomorphs should cost 10-30 points depending on the biomorph for infantry units. So 20 points for toxin on 10 termagants, 20 points for 20 termagants, 20 points for 30 termagants. Would help incentivize hordes. And things like miasma and acid blood be more available for a wider variety of units.
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Post by bolk on Aug 18, 2014 23:27:29 GMT
So much to say. For now, all I would say is keep Robin Cruddace away from the book. Now i got some questions. What will you folk,s opinion be to create 1.A close combat fexes a desirable option. 2.Biomorphs for our close combat powerhouse to effectively compete with close combat powerhouses from other codex without looking obnoxiously OP to folks on the recieving end. Point cost and name will be appreciated. 1. Give Carnifexes 2+ save, or atleast the option to buy 2+ save. I played with 2 Stonecrushers in 2 games before its current rules in IA4 2nd Ed, and just going up one save made a world of difference. Coupled with Regen and cover saves from Venoms the duo weathered a shitload of storm and reached combat fine. 2. Giving our leaderbeasts invulnerable saves or the option to buy them would go a long way. No "4++ ONLY in close combat (please do not swear)" like we have on the Swarmlord. I understand the concept with Tyrant Guard, but T6 3+ doesn`t help one bit against focused shooting when AP3 or better is in abundance. But still I think our problem is a delivery system. With no pods and no assault transports (except for GCs which cost well over half an army in points), all our CC specialists die before they get there. Shrikes, Raveners and Lictors can deepstrike, Genestealers and Lictors can Infiltrate or Outflank, but standing there for a turn getting shot up with a 5+ save isn`t a good combination. 3 wounds doesn`t help much when Bolters ignore your armour save. Or they have to be cheap enough that you can bring them in droves. Shrikes and Raveners go down to 15-20 points base, Genestealers 8-10 points etc. For our MCs I`d say higher toughness on them would not break the game, or give them Beast MC unit type (Trygon, Haruspex, I`m looking at you guys.) So I guess Biomorphs that would raise toughness, give higher armour save, invulnerable saves or faster movement.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Aug 19, 2014 6:04:59 GMT
First. Take a nice steamy deuce on this codex to improve the quality a little. Then cleanse with fire.. Or RIGHTEOUS FURY as our maidens would say Next. Reevaluate what the bugs are designed for. I assume the marines of the xenos world would be best suited for an ADAPTIVE entity. Good at this good at that, but not really awesome at anything. (Turning a blind eye to magic number 8 melta and hammers for a moment.) Next step would be to overhaul Synapse and SITW. Fearless is a good start and I like Instinctive behavior but it actually needs a plus side to it.. Instead of oh good your minions don't cannibalize themselves.. Instead I could imagine Synapse being tied to a warlord trait or such in that there are different roles. Babysitter Synapse gives a defensive buff. FNP is sweet and simple, but xenos is the name so something along the lines of a weird rule that conflicts with wording about rerolling to wound 6's or something. Simply pushing the creatures to move faster or whatever. Would be unique and a LOT of things like that 6 to wound now. Front line Synapse gives rage Mobile synapse gives MTC and if already on the model +1" to run and charge. Shadow in the Warp is supposed to inflict terror on everyone, psykers just get it worse so.. -1 LD to any model within SITW range, and this compounds with psykers adding +2 to any deny the witch roll. Not as nasty as a straight -3 but it INTERFERES with psychic powers like it is supposed to. Psychic Tree Catalyst: just leave alone please GW. As much as I hate this crutch that I never roll.. The Horror: Pinning check, -d3 LD. If the unit is fearless, they move at -d3 in the next movement/assault phase. Onslaught: Shoot n run or run n shoot, painful that AM get this speed, Elfdar I can understand. Psychic.. Hahaha. Come on nobody has used this am I right? Replace with Psychic choir: Psyker and all friendly models within 6" gain +1 attack or +1I and +1 WS Warp Blast: For 2 charges give AP1 back. Give models that are ONLY CC an option for an improved armour save and anything T4 and above the option for Flesh Hooks or Spine Banks. Give ONLY shooty models an option for an improved BS and an innate ability to reduce cover by -1 as long as under Synapse. Biovores need Haywire, regular and a plasma esque (with lower S obviously,) bomb. Hmm 3 mine types? Tyrhard needs 8 attacks, WS6 and I5+ and allow designation of up to D3 units to automatically come in through the tunnel. Still probably a joke. Synaptic backlash applied to every Synapse creature with the above bonuses of Synapse applied. Negate entirely if another synapse web is layered. I'll do weapons entries and morphs later. Fun fun.
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Post by gigasnail on Aug 19, 2014 6:15:13 GMT
harpies getting to take two pairs of TL deathspitters that are S5, AP5, 18" range, rapid fire, or better yet salvo 3/5, because dakka.
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Post by gingerwerewolf on Aug 19, 2014 7:55:46 GMT
Increase synergy: allow Broods to be bought like Imperial Guard Platoons, where a Brood of Tyranids can have (Paid for normally) upgrades of certain models:
Troops Termagants can have 0-1 Pyrovore, 0-1 Tervigon (Only with a full 30 Gaunts), 0-5 Rippers Bases Hormagaunts can have 0-1 Venomthrope, 0-1 Carnifex (Close Combat Setup only) 0-5 Rippers Bases Tyranid Warriors can have 0-1 Zoanthrope, 0-1 Tyranid Prime, 0-5 Rippers Bases Genestealers can have 0-1 Broodlord, 0-1 Lictor (It looses IB when in the brood) , 0-5 Rippers Bases
FA Gargoyles can have 0-3 Shrykes, 0-5 Sky Slasher Bases Shrykes can have 0-1 Prime with Wings, 0-5 Sky Slasher Bases Raveners 0-1 Mawloc, 0-1 Red Terror (Give it Synapse), 0-5 Tunnel Swarm Rippers Bases
Change Harpies and Crones to a single brood which can consist of 0-3 Harpies and 0-3 Crones
HS Carnifexs Split in to two types of Brood Combat Fex's Brood can have 0-1 Haruspex, 0-1 Trygon, 0-5 Rippers Bases Shooty Fex's can have 0-3 Hive Guard, 0-1 Tyrannofex, 0-5 Rippers Bases Trygons become 0-3 and can upgrade one to be a Prime Exocrines can have 0-3 Biovores, 0-3 Tyranid Warriors, 0-5 Rippers Bases
However unlike the Imperial Guard, these models can never act independently - They are automatically one large brood, and should they loose synapse, then they have an overall Brood Instinctive Behavior, decided by the most numerous wounds.
Oh and give the damn Hive Guard back their BS4!
Id also make Shadow of the Warp make all psykers roll on a different Perils Table when they fail
1) Hive Mind Awakens: Make a leadership test. If you succeed then you suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible. If you fail you are considered to be an enemy model under the complete contol of the Tyranid Player until the end of the Tyranid Players turn. 2) The Scream: Make a Ld Test: If you Pass, you suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible, if you fail you cast Psychic Scream, centred on yourself, targetting all non Tyranid Models including yourself. 3) Mental Conduit: You suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible, also until the end of the Tyranid Players next turn you are considered to be a Synapse creature with a Synapse Range of 12" for the purposes of telling if a unit is within Synapse range 4) Get out of my Mind: You suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible 5) RUN: Make a Ld Test, Pass nothing, fail the Psyker (or unit) immediately scatters 2D6 Inches in a direction decided by the scatter dice 6) Power of the Hive Mind: LD Test. Fail take a wound, no saving throw possible, on a pass: You and your unit become fearless. Additionally gain +1 to your Psychic level (Immedately gain the extra Dice) and access to one random Psychic power from the Tyranid Powers until the start of your next turn.
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Post by crazyzoan on Aug 19, 2014 9:51:13 GMT
I would, like what plenty of others has said
reevaluate synapse and how it works. With IB being 50% really punishing, it should stand that at least synapse should give bonuses too instead of just fearless. I wouldn't do too much per say and just add the final result of the IB table to nids under synapse.
Pyrovore needed a faster movement and moved perhaps to Fast Attack.... well.... that unit is problematic and prob need a reevaluation on roles.
Trygon tunnelling system. Honestly i saw this one as a missed opportunity in our codex. They could've rid the mycetic spore, and i would be fine, if they allow a turn 1 deep strike tunnel creation of Trygon.
Reevaluate Deathspitters and Venom Cannon. Maybe add a new rule called acidic? reduce the armour value of Vehicle if they got glanced/pen by them permanently? for infantries, reroll successful armour save? For normal Deathspitters prob 2 shots Str 5 Ap5, but for MC it'll be TL 4 shots Str 7 AP4? And please make Venom Cannon the way it was before in 4th edition instead of the blast template they got now. Maybe set the amount of shots instead of variable.
Add 1 more shot on Rupture Cannon and reduce the pt by 5.
My 2 cents.
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Post by gauntlet on Aug 19, 2014 10:00:25 GMT
Increase synergy: allow Broods to be bought like Imperial Guard Platoons, where a Brood of Tyranids can have (Paid for normally) upgrades of certain models: Troops Termagants can have 0-1 Pyrovore, 0-1 Tervigon (Only with a full 30 Gaunts), 0-5 Rippers Bases Hormagaunts can have 0-1 Venomthrope, 0-1 Carnifex (Close Combat Setup only) 0-5 Rippers Bases Tyranid Warriors can have 0-1 Zoanthrope, 0-1 Tyranid Prime, 0-5 Rippers Bases Genestealers can have 0-1 Broodlord, 0-1 Lictor (It looses IB when in the brood) , 0-5 Rippers Bases FA Gargoyles can have 0-3 Shrykes, 0-5 Sky Slasher Bases Shrykes can have 0-1 Prime with Wings, 0-5 Sky Slasher Bases Raveners 0-1 Mawloc, 0-1 Red Terror (Give it Synapse), 0-5 Tunnel Swarm Rippers Bases Change Harpies and Crones to a single brood which can consist of 0-3 Harpies and 0-3 Crones HS Carnifexs Split in to two types of Brood Combat Fex's Brood can have 0-1 Haruspex, 0-1 Trygon, 0-5 Rippers Bases Shooty Fex's can have 0-3 Hive Guard, 0-1 Tyrannofex, 0-5 Rippers Bases Trygons become 0-3 and can upgrade one to be a Prime Exocrines can have 0-3 Biovores, 0-3 Tyranid Warriors, 0-5 Rippers Bases However unlike the Imperial Guard, these models can never act independently - They are automatically one large brood, and should they loose synapse, then they have an overall Brood Instinctive Behavior, decided by the most numerous wounds. Oh and give the damn Hive Guard back their BS4! Id also make Shadow of the Warp make all psykers roll on a different Perils Table when they fail 1) Hive Mind Awakens: Make a leadership test. If you succeed then you suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible. If you fail you are considered to be an enemy model under the complete contol of the Tyranid Player until the end of the Tyranid Players turn. 2) The Scream: Make a Ld Test: If you Pass, you suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible, if you fail you cast Psychic Scream, centred on yourself, targetting all non Tyranid Models including yourself. 3) Mental Conduit: You suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible, also until the end of the Tyranid Players next turn you are considered to be a Synapse creature with a Synapse Range of 12" for the purposes of telling if a unit is within Synapse range 4) Get out of my Mind: You suffer 1 wound with no saving throw possible 5) RUN: Make a Ld Test, Pass nothing, fail the Psyker (or unit) immediately scatters 2D6 Inches in a direction decided by the scatter dice 6) Power of the Hive Mind: LD Test. Fail take a wound, no saving throw possible, on a pass: You and your unit become fearless. Additionally gain +1 to your Psychic level (Immedately gain the extra Dice) and access to one random Psychic power from the Tyranid Powers until the start of your next turn. ^^ I LOVE this. I bet it didn't take you that long to think up. Just shows you how much effort GW put into the new Codex.
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Post by N.I.B. on Aug 19, 2014 10:45:18 GMT
Right, where to start? There are so many ways to go about it. You could re-do the whole thing from the ground up, like gigasnail suggest. Flirting with the 4th ed dynamic biomorphs. Or just go with what we got and tune it, which I’m looking at.
In general terms, I want a codex that expands on viable builds and give us a wide range of ways to play the army.
Needless to say, Mycetic Spores are back in. Horde will be a competitive build. A build with emphasis on our T4 units will be competitive. A reserve oriented build will be competitive. Both pure drop spore, and a unique Tyranid build using different ways of arriving on the table to encircle the enemy. I can’t see GW going back to charge after arriving from reserves, so we need something to make up for it. An overall price decrease on cc units seems most likely and in character for Tyranids.
How to go about it?
Generic stuff A failed Instinctive Behaviour test should only be an inconvenience instead of a catastrophe, Fearless is a powerful boon and we shouldn't need anything else. Remove the 1-3 results.
All Tyranid characters will have a base 5++ save.
SitW = -1 to all enemy activate psychic power rolls within synapse range (fixes the stupid 12+ inches glitch). Not cumulative (because it’s powerful enough).
Tyranids are back to benefitting from all cc special weapon bonuses but lose the generic two cc weapon bonus attack.
Boneswords are back to AP2 but loses Life Drain.
Scything Talons are back to rerolls.
Tail attacks on MCs are AP2.
Deathspitters have a 24” range.
Psychic powers Onslaught allows run and shoot OR shoot and run.
Warp Lance is back to AP1.
Special Characters Doom is back.
Parasite is back, and T5.
Swarmlord get his force reroll invo saves back, a 4++ save, 18” synapse, and he gets to roll on the Warlords charts like a champ. Welcome back, baby!
Deathleaper is a character with Synapse, Shrouded, and he can blink again. T5.
HQ Hive Tyrant - Old Adversary back to preferred enemy bubble. 2+ armour save option is back.
Tervigon is a character again.
Tyranid Prime cost 85 points base, gets option for Wings and can join a unit in a Mycetic Spore.
Broodlord has Rending attacks on 5+.
Elite Haruspex tail and HoW attacks benefit from bonus attacks special rule. Of course.
Hive Guards are back to BS 4 and WS decreased to 3. They lose cc biomorph options, because why did they have them in the first place Cruddace? Serious derp.
Lictors have Shrouded and give +1 to reserve rolls as long as they are alive (not necessarily on the table).
Pyrovore is gone from the codex, and Cruddace apologises in White Dwarf for inventing them in the first place. The model is now the official Biovore model.
Troops Genestealers are 10 points.
Hormagaunts are 4 points.
Warriors are 25 points.
Fast Hive Crone Raking Strike is 1D3. Because it has a big ol’ Raker.
Raveners are 25 points, and have cc biomorph options. Because why didn’t they have them in the first place Cruddace? Serious derp. Raveners can use Trygon Tunnel.
Shrikes are 25 points.
Heavy Carnifex gets an expensive 2+ armour option.
Mawloc get option to buy Enhanced Senses – cuts the scatter to 1D6” (should be properly expensive, 40-50 points). Terror from the Deep affects all floors in a ruin. Gets Stealth until start of next friendly turn, due to the debris and dust erupting from the ground.
Trygon/Prime back to A6. Has Beast. Troops (and Raveners) in reserve can use it’s tunnel the same turn it arrives. All units emerging from a Trygon tunnel in the same turn as the Trygon, gets Stealth until start of next friendly turn, due to the debris and dust erupting from the ground.
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Post by l0rdf1end on Aug 19, 2014 11:37:06 GMT
I'd probably add a Monstrous Creature that is Str 10, Toughness 8, 6 wounds with a 3+ save. It can move 12 inches and costs about 240 points. It has 2 guns that can I.D on a 6 which are AP2. Then I'd probably add a transport that's a fast skimmer, lets make it 12 AV front and Side. Lets give it some special ability where if its twin linked str6 main gun hits all of its other weapons get twinlinked also. And why not chuck a shield on top that reduces pens to a glance on a 2+. Hell, why not let them shoot this shield for d6+1 shots str7, ignores cover and pinning every turn. There, balanced restored
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Post by l0rdf1end on Aug 19, 2014 11:42:47 GMT
Honestly I would be happy with these: Swarmlord has EW and a 4++. Swarmlord needs Adrenal Glands in his base profile along with EW and his 4++ in combat. Totally unusable currently, even just fleet would make him a little more useful.
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Post by gingerwerewolf on Aug 19, 2014 13:02:51 GMT
Increase synergy.... <SNIP> ^^ I LOVE this. I bet it didn't take you that long to think up. Just shows you how much effort GW put into the new Codex. Thank you! - and no it didnt take long, The Imperial Guard Style Brood method been rumbling around my head for a while, but not specifically. Both it, and the Nid Perils List took as long as sitting there and writing it out to think it up properly
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Post by mattblowers on Aug 19, 2014 13:23:38 GMT
I don't think it needs rewritten. We just need our options back and prices dropped a bit. What I want, in order: 1. Mycetic Spores: we need a delivery system. Period. Everyone else has one except for us. This needs to change. (Trygon tunnels are not a delivery system as they often come into play too late to use.) I'm tired of "line up and bum rush the opponent". It gets old. 2. Assault only broods need a way to assault on the turn they come in, the ability to run and charge, and a way around charging through cover. As it stands they are near worthless for me. 3. Our MCs need a boost. They don't reliably tear down armor and their WS3 makes them far from scary in combat. My opponents routinely lock them up with a cheap unit and keep them occupied for the remainder of the game. Give us back our rerolls with ScyTals. 4. Make synapse either a bigger boost or less of a liability. As it stands they force me to not play horde style for fear of synapse going badly. (Before you say it's not that bad, read my post on what happened in a game where I purposefully took no synapse to see what happened.) Other than that, I can live with our codex. It's actually fun to play and I'm finding more combinations that work pretty well. We need a game that is actually fun now. Once I quit trying to be competitive my fun factor exponentially increased. Don't listen to internet whine. I've largely switched stores I'm playing at simply because store #2 has a much better approach and attitude to the game. Remember, this is supposed to be a hobby that is fun.
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Post by javaman21011 on Aug 19, 2014 18:22:46 GMT
Forgeworld just needs to own up and add in a spore pod for 20pts (to appease our pain and suffering for the past 8 months).
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Post by gauntlet on Aug 19, 2014 18:56:42 GMT
^^ I LOVE this. I bet it didn't take you that long to think up. Just shows you how much effort GW put into the new Codex. Thank you! - and no it didnt take long, The Imperial Guard Style Brood method been rumbling around my head for a while, but not specifically. Both it, and the Nid Perils List took as long as sitting there and writing it out to think it up properly This matches the pictures and my idea of Tyranids so much. It's iconic to see bunches of meatshield gaunts with Leader Beasts embedded amongst them.
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Post by biomassbob on Aug 19, 2014 19:38:02 GMT
NIB, I like and agree with most of your suggestions. Why can't GW staff read threads like this and be honestly critical of their product's quality and then produce good rules?
I want to be positive and believe that the next nid dex will actually have some serious effort applied by people that care about making a good product and relatively balanced dex (internally and externally) but the mess of the current game and the poor quality nid dex and mess of dataslates and forgeworld that is all intertwined, it is hard to be optimistic. GW needs either a radical change in design staff/business mentality (whoever is too blame for the current mess of 40k) or to contract their rules writing to another company (or go out of business and maybe a decent company will buy the IP and actually make 40K into a decent game).
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