Is 40k a dying breed?

[Hive Bahamut]

Now something that I have been noticing is the trickle of people disappearing. This has been observed in my gaming group, at my LGS, and from what I've gathered on TTH. Is this just typical migration or is it on the excessive side this time? What really happened that was soo bad?

Is it that our codex is on its 2nd iteration of garbage? Or the rules in general? I can't speak from experience just on my first game now (Cleanse and Control,) against Tau. Should be OK due to deployment but we will see. I think the psychic phase gives a little more control but those charges sure drain fast.

Or is it just time to move on to a greater cause? I would assume after GW's horrible record the other wargames are more balanced and less of a reverse mortgage to play. Any thoughts of what is going on?

[krimson]

We started a new player campaign recently, and it seems to be gathering a good amount of steam. It started with small steps, assembly/painting tutorials, and climaxed with a noob friendly tournament. Now there is a new campaign being done to help draw in new players. The person putting it together did an amazing job, and there are now 8 or 9 new armies in the area.

New players wont just come in on their own. If they do it is rare. So we have to recruit them, and show them why we have so much fun playing.

Going super hardcore from day one is sure to scare away far more than it would attract. I think it just means your area has been less proactive in drawing in new players.

[malebranche]

I make an active effort not to complain about the game in front of potential new players. I remember a friend coming around to watch a game a few years ago, and my opponent, knowing i was taking a soft list to show variety, decided to run flyer spam. I couldn't do a thing, and after the game my friend (who had been quite eager to start an army before that) said "I don't want to play a game that unbalanced". I explained that it was a competitive list versus a casual list, but he had seen that there were no shortage of units that other units had literally no way of touching.

My advice when trying to bring in new players is don't play with douches, don't try showing off the OP units, and avoid showing them the negatives. The last few times I went to the local gaming club every conversation was about how unbalanced the game is. A new player came in and instead of setting up fun casual games and focusing on the positives they started telling him all about everything wrong with the game. I think too many players do this, so what do they expect?

[inferno]

I left to DZC for a mix of reasons. Namely the terrible game balance but also GW's actions and prices. I don't want to play a game that punishes me for using what I like.

[Davor]

In my area, 40K is dead. Gaming group tried to start 40K again, but it seems no one is really interested. I guess that is why I don't have the ambition to finish what I have started. (plus a few other real life events stopped me as well.)

For most, it's the price that seemed to have killed 40K. Just to expensive. And then throw in GW new rules every 4 years, now every 2 years and then codex change people are just tired of restarting all the time. But for most, it's the price and boring rules.

[ghoulio]

Here there seems to be a mass exodus away from 40k into other games like Warmachine and X-Wing. Out of a large group of friends that I met playing 40k only 2 of them still actually play. Tournament attendance also seems to be down while for other games seems to be going up quite quickly.

For myself I have completely quit 40k. Part of my problem was I had put too much of my hopes for getting back into the game on the new Tyranid Codex by thinking GW would fix the issues of the 5th ed codex and make everything viable. For me personally (this is 100% just my opinion mind you) I honestly don't think we could have gotten a worse Codex. The reason I say this is because GW just did what they always do with Tyranids. They just make everything that we spent the last 4 years working on terrible and basically made it so you HAD to buy the new stuff just to remain even remotely competitive. I just DID that with the 5th ed codex! I bought over 3000pts just to get the army to a point where I enjoyed playing it. Then the 6th ed codex comes out removing all forms of alternate deployment which was the only thing I really loved about the 5th ed codex.

This mind set that Games Workshop as a company has where they universally nerf what is popular just to force all their players to buy what is "new" and "awesome" beyond pisses me off. You compare that to say Privateer Press (PP) which instead of adopting Games Workshop's business model, PP releases new models that make older lack luster units more viable. Both companies obviously have a clear cut goal (as does any company) of making money. Games Workhop's business model though is just so much more cut throat and blatantly dis-respectful and almost insulting to their player base. At least with Privateer Press they give you the illusion they are trying to make a better game while they are trying to get you to buy the newer kits.

With all that being said I am still not selling my fully painted 5500pts Tyranid army. I am holding out hope that at some point GW tones down the madness of 7th and actually focuses on game balance and brings out a Tyranid Codex that is actually fun to play with and somewhat competitive. I took a big break from halfway through 3rd to the middle of 5th, so taking another break isnt a big deal. My mind set is to just play what I find fun and when 40k/Nids are fun again I will be back to being all in, until then though going to stick with Warmachine.

[biomassbob]

Jul 2, 2014 16:20:09 GMT Hive Bahamut said:

Now something that I have been noticing is the trickle of people disappearing. This has been observed in my gaming group, at my LGS, and from what I've gathered on TTH. Is this just typical migration or is it on the excessive side this time? What really happened that was soo bad?

Is it that our codex is on its 2nd iteration of garbage? Or the rules in general? I can't speak from experience just on my first game now (Cleanse and Control,) against Tau. Should be OK due to deployment but we will see. I think the psychic phase gives a little more control but those charges sure drain fast.

Or is it just time to move on to a greater cause? I would assume after GW's horrible record the other wargames are more balanced and less of a reverse mortgage to play. Any thoughts of what is going on?

I have noticed the same thing. Many of the nid players that I have communicated with/read in forum discussions here and on Dakka/Dakka and Warseer seem to have given up on 40k/nids or their interest has waned. Some migration will be natural as new games appear or interest moves to other things but a lot has been the continually poor treatment nids have gotten and the declining state of the game/rules (rules have always been a problem for GW but it has gotten worse with each edition I have played).

For me, who started during 4th edition, it is a combination of things. The garbage 5th edition nid dex, late (took 6 months) and inadequate errata (didn't address the multitude of problems), failure to fix many issues with nids on the release of 6th edition (either in good core rules or a proper errata to address the many lingering problems with the nid dex), poorly done 6th edition core rules, the bland/lazy and poorly done 6th ed nid dex and release of dataslates at the same time for a money grab rather then put lots of these rules in the dex, and lack of 7th edition either in the core rules or errata for dexes fixing the lingering problems with nids. That is not mentioning other jerky behaviour by GW with regard to other armies. Balance is important for me (not perfect balance but an attempt to try to make all units equally effective) - I had hoped that each edition would see improvements to try to fix broken things but GW just makes things worse overall.

I have spent lots of money on GW product and would have stayed and continued to spend more but I have given GW enough chances to try to make a decent game of 40K and nids. I have not purchased 7th edition (or any nid dataslates), stopped by models a while ago and have now shelved the army. My local gaming group still plays 40K but there are many other games played as well such as x-wing, star trek attack group (I think its called), warmachine and a little flames or war. I have heard many good things about them and may try them when I get time.

Price is also a problem as GW charges premium prices for poor quality with regard to rule books. They do have a lot of great kits but even there they scam their customers in various ways. Look at the plastic tyrant kit - great wings and other parts but not a single pair or devourers when GW has made those the needed option by their lousy rule writing and if I wanted to make a flying tyrant with a stranglethorn cannon and bonesword lashwhip for example, a have to convert the model out of the box because GW didn't deal with the problem of wings taking up an arm slot. For the outrageous price they charge this is a disgrace.

The topper I think for many people is that GW will not change these practices until they hurt enough on the bottom line and come to the realization of what the problem is and I don't see any signs of that in the future. So I understand why so many have left the hive for greener pastures. I understand why some people stay and put up with GW but hopefully people will at least be honest with the poor quality of the product for the price.

[biomassbob]

ghoulio - I agree with your points. I have a SM army as well but I find that GWs policy of messy up options and units has affected nids far more than my SM over the years. I have done the same when the 5th ed nid dex came out - buying various other units to try to make things work (didn't play tervigons as I disilked the concept and the implementation by GW). The last SM dex was not perfect but added a lot of flavour and options and my SM armies needed small amounts of adjustment in comparison to nids - where you are forced to buy dataslates and models (crone, harpy, exocrine, etc) to try to have a decent army.

[brucelich]

I can't say for the outside world but i can tell you our gaming group has died out in terms of 40k. I was the only nid player in the group so obviously, it couldn't have been the two latest instances of the bug book that killed it. It surely didn't help in my case but i digress.

In our perspective, i think it started dieing out with 6th edition, more specifically, the introduction of flyers. We felt flyers had too much power in terms dictating lists.

The other major issue i saw was that we enjoyed casual gaming (read: fluff based lists) but the official rules did not really support our mentality. CC armies never really had a fighting chance but yet, those were the lists a good portion of us enjoyed playing (Orks, nids and Eldar to some extent). And its not like the other players built their list with cheese in mind. Its just that, with the core rules, a Tau "fluff" list (gunline) is soooo much better than a nids "fluff" list (swarm). Fluff might not mean much in terms of competition but for a casual gamer, it's all that matters... As an example, I signed up for the nids because of the endless sea of claws described in every book, the huge machete sized teeth and the mighty Monstrous Creatures bred for combat. Needless to say, nothing disapointed me more than having to equip my fex and tyrants with pewpew in order to stand my ground... Now, I never minded that the devourers were so good on a Monstrous Creature... What I did mind however was that it was the only valid option by a longshot.

That's mainly why my group walked away from 40k. There's a bunch of other stuff too, like the GW price tag, but those were more irritants than show-stoppers. I still lurk around here because I like the models and because deep down inside, i pray for an early update or errata that will reset the game to what I would like

[javaman21011]

I'll agree with ghoulio, if it ain't fun then take a break. Personally Warmachine is rather fun, smaller and easier to manage than moving around 30-50 gaunts per round

[Hive Bahamut]

Well this is a good start. So it isn't just my jaded glasses, it turns out damn near everyone that is associated with Tyranids is foaming at the mouth. When Mods start quitting perils are nigh.

As much as I do enjoy the game I really hope the other companies either bury GW or make them step up their game instead of crutch responding. "We're a modeling company," who's rules look like a groups of kindergartners had arts and crafts time, with the new stuff being edited to be strong.

It is a sad day in the life of 40k, but wait.. GW will just spin focus on 30k after 40k is dead and there's another 10 years more nonsense I'm sure.

Oh well. Maybe it would be a good time to dump my excess. Maybe even my Elfdar stuff I never use, they sure make my Nids book look like finger paintings.

Onslaught = very weak psychic power
Battle Focus = army rule that is waaay better.

Synapse creature: Gives fearless and cancels IB within 12"
Khaine Awakened: Gives fearless within 12"

Centerpiece Tryhard Prime: Literally a joke MC at 230 points, that a Tau commander can smash almost better than for 5 points (Onager Gauntlet is AP1 just to spite.)

Centerpiece Wraithknight: Will butthurt any TMC and on a lucky roll instakill anything with huge T to mitigate most damage, for 10 points more..

These are only 3 examples in one matchup. We really take the short stick approach that is for sure.

[ilovethenids]

I haven't been able to find any other 40K players near me, and since I have no friends in the first place (nobody to try to convince to start) and since any potential friends would also be college students (not going to have a ton of money to spare), I haven't been successful in getting anyone to pick up the hobby. Plus, with the horrible balance I'd be using a homebrew 'nid dex, which is something I'd have to explain to a new player and by telling them that I had to resort to this because the game is not very well balanced I'm making it even less likely that they'll start.

If I were less attached to 40K I'd definitely throw in the towel, but the many hours I've put into making a well-painted army keep me hoping to find the right person to convince/game with.

[arapaima]

I think GW should make special rules that makes fluffy choices functionable, the same way that full bike is working well for white scars. From a fluffy standpoint, most fluffy army been fighting the way they were because it worked super well for them. Effectivness and lore is not mutually exlcusive if you write rules that make the fluff a viable choice on the board.

[coredump]

I don't know. People leave all the time, and some come back, and new people start. There really isn't any good way to get a feel beyond your local group.


I actually think many of the other games will prove to be something of a fad. For all of its flaws, 40K offers a much much more diverse game with many more options and possibilities.

[arapaima]

I agree, even if folks are jaded, the love for their faction and the miniature will keep them coming back. I doubt the game will simply fade into trivialities of boardgaming history. For me, i thought i cut my ties with 40k but it was clear, like a genestealer cultist i have sold my genes and soul to my hivemind as many have sold theirs to the dark gods of the warp and the corpse emperor of the golden throne.

. Every edition will have me coming back regardless of the rules

For my group, theres only one gaming club and almost everyone played WHFB save for some kids who visit the town for the holidays. I felt that having an established playerbase focus on fantasy meant that most new comer wanna join in on Fantasy battle instead. Mostly i just go there to get new paints and minis because i really enjoy painting them up as of late.