some questions about the flyrant from a beginner

[gingerwerewolf]

Aug 14, 2013 6:24:03 GMT coredump said:

I would advise against it. I would probably start both of them on the board.

First, one is shooty, one is CC; so their timing is different, even if they come in at the same time.
Even with HC, you have a 30% chance that at least one of them doesn't come in turn 2.
Whenever the Trygon comes in, he can't do much until the next turn anyway.

Flyrant can easily be causing 'serious damage' on turn 1; you would be giving that up. Any time you Deep strike, you are taking a risk.
Trygon has fleet, and should be able to get into CC by turn 2.
Flyers have to start in reserve, so you get a turn or two of flyrant shooting, without having to worry about his flyers trying to take you out.

The only reason I can see starting the HT in reserve is if you are going second, and he has a lot of long range AP3/2/1 shooting. And even then I might try and just hide the flyrant behind a building, or in a corner, or something.

The other side of the coin is the Psychological effect on your opponent when two large creatures appear in his back field. This gives the Enemy player 2 large and scary creatures that they Have to deal with. Ive run armies very effectively with that Psychology, and even when they systematically work on destroying them, its a great break to the rest of your army. If you Deep Strike just a HT, then you can expect in the next turn for it to be shot lots. If the Enemy is savvy, they will shoot every low str gun they can at the Flyrant to ground it, and then open up with the heavy weapons. If you dont have a way to mitigate the amount of High Rate of fire, low str weapons, your Tyrant will die.

The thing is, Deep Striking them is particularly safe - With the HT in Swoop Mode able to be placed on Impassible terrain , and the Trygons "Reduce Scatter untill you are at least 1 inch away from any other model" means that they are a lot safer than other Deep Striking troops

However as Coredump says above, the Trygon is reduced in effectiveness as he can only shoot on the turn he arrives.

Its swings and roundabouts really!

[coredump]

I would rather give them that psychological effect on turn 1, when those big monsters start on the board with all the other big monsters; they can still be in their deployment zone by turn 2; and have killed a bunch of stuff on the way.

[wolfman]

Had the battle. Thought you might like to know how it went. I decided to go all out, no reserves. I went second and it worked a treat. My zoan got blitzed turn 1, but after that the flyrant and the trygon were devastating. They took care of a battle wagon full of burna boyz, a bunch of lootas, a chunk of war bikers, a dakkajet and would have finished off a looted wagon if the orcs hadn't conceded after turn 5. They got solid support in this from the hive guard and despite seizing up turn one, mamma tervigon soaked up a ton of hits before taking one for the team. Gaunts cleaned up the last boyz and objectives (played crusade) and it was all over. Nam nam biomass for the hive mind. Cheers guys :-)

[coredump]

Congrats. I am in a campaign against orks, so it warms my Nid heart to see Boyz die in droves....

Some additional info:

Dakka jets can get 18 shots on the waagh. If the enemy has a really deadly flyer, or multiple flyers; one option is to start on the board, but fly off of the board right before the flyers arrive. Then you come back on next turn and can get the first shots. (remember to vector strike before flying off the board...)

Maledictions, blessings, and gaunt spawning can happen even if in combat.

[wolfman]

Exactly what he did! 18 TL shots on the waagh. Luckily he fired them at mamma tervigon. He wanted to try and wipe out my troops since I could no longer replace them. Failed to kill her but he threw everything else at her too and she went down which did nasty damage to my nearby gaunts. This left the flyrant nice and safe though and he ended the dakkajet next turn :-)

[Protagonist]

Aug 14, 2013 2:21:40 GMT wolfman said:

Thanks everyone, this has been super helpful. I think I'm going to start my flyrant off the board with hive commander to try and get him and my trygon in turn 2 to cause some serious damage.

Iirc the +1 to reserves is only in effect as long as the tyrant is on the board so you will still come in on a 3+ until tge tyrant has been on the table for a turn

[gigasnail]

no, HC works as long as it's alive, on the board or not doesn't matter.

[gingerwerewolf]

Aug 15, 2013 22:58:16 GMT Protagonist said:

Aug 14, 2013 2:21:40 GMT wolfman said:

Thanks everyone, this has been super helpful. I think I'm going to start my flyrant off the board with hive commander to try and get him and my trygon in turn 2 to cause some serious damage.

Iirc the +1 to reserves is only in effect as long as the tyrant is on the board so you will still come in on a 3+ until tge tyrant has been on the table for a turn

Gigasnail has it right. Unlike Lictors Pheromone trail, its effective both off the board or on. Its not cumulative with itself, so 2 HTs with HC does not give you +2 but it does stack with Lictors Pheromone trail and the Comms Relay upgrade to Aegis Lines, which we are allowed to use.

I used that in a big 3k game when I knew I was fighting Imperial Guard. I had a feeling that my opponent would take Master of the Fleet, and having a Reserves heavy army I wanted to make sure Id arrive on Turn 2. So Dakka Flyrant had Hive Commander, I bought an Aegis for a bit of Mid to back field Cover, and chained the line back into my deployment zone. I stuck the Comms Relay on the end and had a Tervigon hunkered down on it.

So even with the -1 to reserves from Master of the Fleet, I had a 2+ Reserve roll with a re-roll (From the Relay) and a Outflanking (From Hive Commander) Tervigon.

[infornography]

That isn't what Comms Relay does. It lets you reroll the reserve roll result. Not give a +1

[gingerwerewolf]

Where the hell did I get the +1 from then? I could have sworn...

[Raven]

Aug 16, 2013 11:26:32 GMT gingerwerewolf said:

Where the hell did I get the +1 from then? I could have sworn...

Maybe you were fielding the Swarmlord?

[bolk]

A little out of thread, but with a Tyrant with HC and the Swarmlord, you can still fail on reserve rolls on a 1, right?

[commandersasha]

Aug 15, 2013 22:38:51 GMT wolfman said:

...and she went down which did nasty damage to my nearby gaunts.

A useful tip that you may not be aware of: try and leave your Termagants 6.5" away from their mum if you are not assauling: Synapse is 12", so they will be IN synapse, but OUT of Brood Mother range. If assaulting, you should have no problem re-arranging a few of them back in to 6" range to ensure they get their Adrenal and Poison buffs.

[Raven]

Aug 17, 2013 16:37:58 GMT bolk said:

A little out of thread, but with a Tyrant with HC and the Swarmlord, you can still fail on reserve rolls on a 1, right?

Yes. "Regardless of the modifier(s), a natural roll of a 1 always means that the unit in question remains in reserve." (pg. 124)

[bolk]

Aug 18, 2013 4:10:47 GMT Raven said:

Aug 17, 2013 16:37:58 GMT bolk said:

A little out of thread, but with a Tyrant with HC and the Swarmlord, you can still fail on reserve rolls on a 1, right?

Yes. "Regardless of the modifier(s), a natural roll of a 1 always means that the unit in question remains in reserve." (pg. 124)

Yeah, that sentence right there Me and my friends came to that conclusion when we discussed the Tyranid automatic reserves