A deep-strike heavy army

[dakkathrope]

What is the point limit that you will be playing at?
Deep striking hormagaunts is not typically a good idea as they stand there, usually with little to no cover and get absolutely shreaded. You can usually pull a second turn assault with them if your opponent doesn't turtle. Giving the flyrant x2 twin-linked devs will go a long ways for its overall effectiveness both in board control and anti-flier capabilities. with your current list you will need 4 units to start on the board. I would recommend the flyrant, a trygon, and the 2 ravener broods since they will be able to assault turn 2.

The reason I don't run Hive commander is because I can't use the outflank due to army composition (50% starting on board rule) and that I'm still somewhat used to 5th ed where the reserve role was a 4+ on turn 2. Having a 3+ chance of stuff coming in makes it so that on average only 1 of my 5 spores fails to come in right away and even then it usually doesn't hurt too bad. My personal experience has lead me to believe that I can get more bang-for-buck with OA and careful positioning than a 2+ reserve role.

[forteh]

You can take both OA and HC at the same time though can't you?

masonatronic: Overwatch is a chance for an enemy unit to snap fire its applicable weapons at a unit that is charging them. Basically any weapon that doesn't use a blast template can be fired and normal rules for rapidfire etc are followed, teardrop template weapons automatically inflict D3 hits. Because they are fired as snapshots, overwatch shots only hit on a 6, however a unit of 10 marines with bolters will be using rapidfire to fire 20 shots into your charging unit; when they generally ignore your armour save this can cause significant losses to your combat effectiveness

[dakkathrope]

@foteh Yes you can take both, I just think it is too many points tied up on one model.

[masonatronic]

Ok, so the Raveners, Hormagaunts and Hive Tyrant won't be in reserve since they can each get into combat on turn 2. Got it. That'll free up some points if I don't need to take the myscetic spores.

dakkathrope: The points limit will be 2000 points. So can any unit outflank if you have the Hive commander special rule? And what does Preferred enemy special rule specifically do exactly?

forteh: Is there any way to negate Overwatch? That seems over powered...

[oranos325]

Unfortunately there is no way to negate overwatch... it just is a hurdle that all close combat armies have to face.

You can outflank any troop choice with Hive Commander.

I haven't heard anything about the possibility of Ymgarls in your army. If you are running a reserve army, these guys are awesome cause they can assault the turn they appear. They fit with the deepstike theme of the army but Im not sure what you would want to get rid of for them. I usually run them in broods of 7-8.

Preferred enemy allows you to re-roll failed rolls to hit, and any failed rolls to wound that are "1s"

[masonatronic]

Wow, really? Hm. I dislike the genestealer model, but perhaps I could kit bash their tentacle heads with Ravener bodies? Or something? I'll consider them, certainly. Didn't realise they could assault the turn they appear. Will run them in broods of 7-8 like you if thats what you've found to be most effective.

Ok, hm. I like it. So can I get preferred enemy and Hive commander from that single Tyrant? On all models in the army?

[dakkathrope]

Preferred is a 6 inch bubble around the tyrant. It is hard to use but the payoff is worth it every time. You can take both on the same tyrant, It just gets a bit pricy. Ymgarls are really good overall. I only don't use them due to preferring my elite slots to be 1 unit of hive guard, zoanthropes in a pod, and Doom in a pod. When I play 2000+ ymgarls are in the list every time.

The only effective way to really "negate" overwatch is to either never charge or use a sacrificial unit to soak it up. Against anything that ignores armor I like gants and rippers and against the average infantry weapon, depending on list size, I usually run a fex/trygon in first to minimize the effectiveness of overwatch. Overwatch can be nasty but your opponent still needs 6's to hit. The only time it is really scary is if it is twin-linked or has a large volume of shots. Since 6th I have focused significantly less on assaulting than in 5th when I assaulted as much as possible.

With your current list You will benefit significantly by choosing your targets carefully and making sure you have the upper hand in the assault but only by enough to win during your opponents assault phase. That way your models take as little shooting abuse as possible while still being able to freely assault on your turn. It's hard to pull off well so don't be afraid to fail a couple times while you figure it out.

[infornography]

Well, a few things. One, Hive commander lets you outflank a troop, so you can outflank one of those hormie mobs to surprise the enemy on a flank.

Preferred enemy only rerolls 1's on both to hit and to wound.

2+ reserve rolls are MUCH more reliable than 3+

3+ is a 66% chance of success, 2+ is an 83% chance of success. Another way to look at it is with a 3+ you will have twice as many failures as with 2+, so Hive commander is absolutely worth it on a reserve heavy list.

Ymgarls are pretty amazing. Even if you decide to kitbash something instead of running genestealer models, it is absolutely worth fielding them.

There ARE ways to negate overwatch, but they are all either almost impossible to pull off or are costly. If a unit is already engaged in melee, they can't fire overwatch, so if you send in a sacrificial unit first, they can't fire at your more important unit. Alternatively you can neuter it if you manage to declare a charge with only one model having line of sight, the overwatch can only hurt that one model, but since the charge has already been declared, as long as you can roll the charge distance far enough, you can still engage them. This is very unlikely to ever happen in a game.

As for Old Adversary (preferred enemy) and Hive Commander. You can put them both on the same tyrant, Hive commander works for as long as they tyrant is alive (even if he is in reserve) and old adversary only gives units within 6" of the hive tyrant preferred enemy. It takes careful placement to make good use of Old Adversary in my experience, I'd rather not tether my flyrant to having to be that close to other units and rarely find that upgrade worth it unless it is on a tyrant with armored shell instead of wings.

And lastly, Hormies aren't great, they are expensive and fragile. Especially considering that termagants are so much cheaper with upgrades and can pepper the enemy with effectively bolt pistol rounds before charging. Losing that one attack is not a big deal to them.

Also you don't have any objective holders in that list. Hormies die too fast and have no utility outside of melee so I think you will find that typically, after turn 3 or 4 you have no scoring units left on the field and will lose any game where you fail to table the opponent unless you are doing a kill point match.

I highly recommend taking termagants and/or minimal warrior broods to hold objectives. This is what Tervigons are particularly wonderful for, they spawn objective holders. I can understand not liking the model, but I can see making a well done kitbash with a trygon to have a serpentlike tervigon. It would be a cool project.

[masonatronic]

Hive Fleet Jormungandr - 2000pts

Hive Tyrant - 170
Hive Commander - 25
Wings - 60
255

Tervigon - 160
Toxin Sacs - 10
170

Ymgarls (7) - 161

Hormagaunts (20) - 120
Toxin Sacs - 40
160

Hormagaunts (20) - 120
Toxin Sacs - 40
160

Raveners (6) - 180
Rending Claws - 30
210

Raveners (6) - 180
Rending Claws - 30
210

Trygon - 200
Toxin Sacs - 10
210

Trygon - 200
Toxin Sacs - 10
210

Trygon Prime - 240
Toxin Sacs - 10
250


How does this compare?

[infornography]

This lets you cover objectives much better, though I would recommend putting one more power on the terv. Note, if you buy another power, you can swap both to biomancy, you can still only cast one a turn, but getting two biomancy powers all but guarantees getting something very useful.

Iron arm in particular is great for them.

[masonatronic]

Ok, could you talk me through these powers and stuff? Not heard anything about that... Sounds interesting though.

To stick with the theme, something I've seen another board member do who I can't recall the name of, is use ripper models as Termagaunts. I'd like to do that, but the Ripper models are a bit too small. Is there anywhere I can get them that are larger? I've seen photos on the internet but can't source them.

Thanks, and any more advice on the list would be welcome

[oranos325]

Check out the FAQ on the gw website about the procedures for rolling powers. Basically instead of taking the powers any of our psykers can have from our book, for each power you would have had, you get one roll on powers in the book. The table you almost always want to roll on is biomancy. 4/6 of the powers are really helpful for nids, one is good but situational, and the last one is pretty (please do not swear). The 4 that are good are Iron arm, endurance, enfeeble, and warp speed. Iron arm makes the psyker super strong and tough, endurance is catalyst except it also gives it will not die which is helpful, enfeeble makes your opponents slower and weaker, and warp speed gives more attacks and higher initiative. Basically iron arm is the best for tervigons followed by either enfeeble or endurance depending on the situation. You should almost always be rolling for book powers.

[Davor]

Jul 23, 2013 12:19:11 GMT masonatronic said:

What is overwatch?

Have you played 6th edition ruleset? It's a rule in 6th edition, that the unit you are going to assault, gets a free shot at you at BS2. In other words they need 6's to hit you.

[Kwodd]

Jul 30, 2013 0:51:27 GMT Davor said:

Jul 23, 2013 12:19:11 GMT masonatronic said:

What is overwatch?

Have you played 6th edition ruleset? It's a rule in 6th edition, that the unit you are going to assault, gets a free shot at you at BS2. In other words they need 6's to hit you.

BS1

[Davor]

Oops typo. Got to learn how to type better and PROOF READ.