ymgarl genestealer

[barenone]

I planned on using ymgarl genestealer as a lock down troop to tie up anyone trying to shoot down my charging horde. Also to lock down anyone who has the potential to shoot down a Tervigon before he starts adding to the horde. because of the pretty weak WS I did not see them doing much other then tieing up a unit ( I play against a lot of blood angels)

My question is if this is a valid way of using them? Would I not be using them to there potential? What am I not noticing about them if anything?

[barenone]

oh and for contesting and taking objectives

[swarmy]

I think you just have a different perspective on what is a good close combat unit because you fight one of the rougher CC marine armies out there. Blood angels out-assault quite a bit of our squishier stuff and you are better off shooting them when the chance presents itself. I don't see them having trouble with heavy weapons teams though since that's what you'd likely be aiming at tying up/killing off to protect your tervigon from AP2-3. Charge in with the toughness buff and finish them off in the next turn with bonus attacks. Definitely don't charge them unsupported at their dedicated assault units; They will make you regret it.

[nurglitch]

Using them any way you want is a valid way of using them, except for ways that don't work in the rules: Ymgarl Genestealers aren't Troops, and cannot hold objectives. They can contest objectives though. Whether you want to get the most bang for your buck, and whether they're the best option will depend on what else you have in your army. Given that they have to come in from reserves, they can benefit from a bonus to your reserve roll, such as from a Hive Tyrant's Hive Commander upgrade, or the Swarmlord's Alien Cunning rule, for example.

It's always worth reviewing their rules:

Dormant allows them to charge on the turn they arrive from reserves. However, they have to be placed in area terrain, or models that can't be placed in area terrain and at least 1" from enemy models will be destroyed. And you should work from the assumption that your opponent knows that too. Maybe they won't, maybe they will, the best practice is working from the parameters of the game to the optimal strategies.

Alter Form likewise allows them to resist overwatch on the turn they arrive, or the turn they charge, in that they can increase their Toughness to soak overwatch, and then their Attacks in following turns to keep on dealing damage. More attacks also means more opportunity for Rending to take effect. If you're jumping a vehicle, walker or otherwise, increasing their Strength on the charge is the best option to produce more glancing and penetrating hits.

Fleet is especially handy because it allows you to re-roll any charging dice where they're most likely going to have to charge through difficult terrain to get to whatever unit they're charging. Move Through Cover might get you out of that terrain first though, if you're lucky and your opponent doesn't oppose the Genestealer's arrival on the board.

Now, back to the big picture. If your opponent is also aware of what they can do, then they can mitigate the effects of Ymgarls in several ways beyond blocking your Dormant deployment from reserves. The first is by bubble-wrapping, surrounding, the units you want to charge with units you don't want to charge, either because their overwatch fire will murder your Genestealers, or the Genestealers will murder them and be left hanging for other units to shoot to bits. Juicy artillery pieces, heavy support vehicles, and so on will be protected this way. The second, and synergizing with preventing your Ymgarl Genestealers from making good use of Dormant, will be deploying or moving into area terrain and behind cover to force the Ymgarls to attack at I1.

In the first case, bring units that have long-ranged weapons that can clear area terrain: Ymgarl Genestealers are expensive, points-wise, and can have a small footprint when they arrive because they can move and assault that turn, it's not like you'll be landing units of twenty. Fortunately most of these long-ranged weapons are also pinning: Spore Mine Launchers (Biovores), Barbed Stranglers (Warriors, Shrikes), and Stranglethorns (Hive Tyrants, Carnifex broods, Harpies) and a unit that has gone to ground will not inflict the I1 penalty if the Ymgarl Genestealers need to cross difficult terrain on the charge. You will get at least two turns to shoot with these weapons, providing they survive to shoot, before the Ymgarls can arrive, let alone charge.

In addition, bring lots of units that can arrive concurrently with the Ymgarl Genestealers. If your Ymgarl Genestealers are the only unit in range of your opponent's short-ranged firepower, they're not going to last long and all that time and money you spent collecting Ymgarl heads and converting Genestealer models will feel like it was wasted. If these units charge the enemy first in the same charge sub-phase, then your opponent will face the decision of either wasting overwatch fire on them, or possibly being locked in combat when the Ymgarl Genestealers arrive without getting any overwatch fire.

These units don't necessarily have to charge on the turn they arrive to provide leverage and protection. Termagants with Devourers, for example, are great at landing and clearing bubblewrap so that the Ymgarl Genestealers can charge the protected unit. There's the added benefit that the Devourers cause a -1 to the 25% casualty morale test, and a unit that fails its morale test has to pass a regrouping test or be destroyed if the Ymgarl Genestealers charge them while they're falling back. Infiltrate a unit of Genestealers with a Broodlord using Aura of Despair and you can again leverage the likelihood of this occurring, even if the Genestealers themselves are pre-occupied charging a unit that would otherwise shoot or counter-charge the Ymgarl Genestealers after the first round of combat.

If you're planning on charging with the Ymgarl Genestealers the turn before the rest of your army arrives, then they're going to get destroyed after maybe destroyed one enemy unit, and that won't be the best use of them. Their ability to charge in turn 2 shouldn't be taken to mean that they're shock-assault, to tie up the enemy before the mop-up units arrive from the long trek up the board. Their ability to charge in turn 2 means that they can provide the mop-up assault to other Tyranid deep striking, infiltrating, and long-ranged shooting units.

[barenone]

Well my intention was to not bring them out until my units are closer to assaulting range. This will make them choose to shoot the ymargl (anyone know how to actually pronounce that?) or the unit charging. I plan on a heavy horde army that's purpose is to keep them on there toes not knowing what is going to happen. Hell I want him to know what they can do so he will always be worried on when they will pop out. This should allow me to get my horde up easier. You are right on that aspect though. They will get cut down so maybe I will use that to my advantage.

[nurglitch]

You don't really get much of a choice: Either the Ymgarls are deployed in area terrain on the board when they make their reserve roll, or they are destroyed (barring certain Warlord Traits). They're more likely to arrive on T2 than otherwise, and so either your horde will need to move faster than Tyranids normally do to close that 24" gap between deployment zones, or you're going to want to invest in units that can deep strike, outflank, and otherwise enter play closer to your opponent's army than normal deployment allows. Otherwise the effect is very much like dividing your forces in the face of the enemy, and your opponent gets to eat your units piece-meal.

My guess at pronunciation: "Im-Garl".

[barenone]

Hmm i can see why that would be a prob, I do want to have a lot of deepstriking units and most of which would prob be there in turn 2, What about taking some gargoyles to close that early gap? I think I should work out a list of what I have going in my head and get the posted. I was never really good at explaining what I was thinking

[nurglitch]

Gargoyles can move pretty fast. They're pretty fragile though, scatter like normal on Deep Strike, and don't carry anything notable in terms of firepower. Termagants in Mycetic Spores would combine better with Ymgarls, I think. Or take normal Genestealers, to infiltrate them to back up the Ymgarl assault.

[barenone]

I love the ideas of mycetic spores. I will probably end up using them, I do not see why I would need to deep strike the gargoyles, I would move them up in cover and then bust them out of cover charging on round 2> i should have a lot coming in on turn 2 so I should be able to pick and choose what soaks up the overwatch. hmmm this is going to be fun.

[Nightmare20]

Trygons and doom. Your best hope is threat density if you ask me. And with the shots off of a trygon and the doom activating on their shooting step, the ymgarls will look like the least of their worries. Not that that is necessarily true.

[barenone]

See this is the stuff I like, I do not want my opponent to know who they should shoot, who they should assault, I want them to have no idea what is going on what is going to happen and what they should do.

[virtualsniper]

Be careful if you plan on using fast moving units. It can work when using Dawn of war deployment, but if you get Hammer and Anvil and the enemy setup far in his zone, you are pretty much ****ed.

That is to say if you are using book mission...

[Jestar]

Feb 28, 2013 20:07:44 GMT virtualsniper said:

Be careful if you plan on using fast moving units. It can work when using Dawn of war deployment, but if you get Hammer and Anvil and the enemy setup far in his zone, you are pretty much ****ed.

That is to say if you are using book mission...

Depends..... If you run a really fast list with Pods, Ymgarls, and Flyrants, then Hammer and Anvil is awesome if they set up in their zone. I just had a game where my opponent did exactly this and he had no chance to stop me. I took out his fast moving units, and then had him fighting for a draw because he couldn't get to my end of the table to contest my objectives. A full 1/4 of my army was doing nothing but sitting on objectives at my end, but it got me the game easily. Brainleech Worm spam is awesome. :-)

[barenone]

Actual hammer would be perfect, you could deepstrike behind him as he moves forward and get him from both sides. Hell stick ymgarls at strategic spots throughout the board, some in the middle some on there side, Should be fun I think.

[coredump]

Wait, you say they have a "pretty weak WS", are you looking at the correct stat line? WS6 is pretty tough.

It is a common misconception that Yealers need to come in from reserves. They don't have to, but it would be silly to start them on the board.


Last of all, I would advise against using them as a 'tie up' unit. First, they are pretty expensive, second, they pretty mean in CC. Guants and rippers are good for tieing things up. Yealers are good for hitting things and killing them. Plus, with T5 and 4+ save, they are fairly resilient.

While a heavy reserve/alpha strike list is a valid way to play, you don't need lots of other units to benefit from yealers. They don't usually need protection from shooting, since they can assault the turn they come in, once stuck in CC they can't be shot.