|
Post by Nightmare20 on Feb 24, 2013 21:21:06 GMT
The Trygon in Imperial Armour 4 had the same rule, except it made actually made sense since you designated a unit to arrive via the Tunnel. They (our Cruddy writer) removed that line from the rule when they transferred the unit from IA. Mother f***er... And he still has his job after his obvious sabotage of the codex? I wish GW would hold him responsible for lost revenue his butchery has caused as well as the abuse of their trust, as an author who is entrusted to balance their product line for them. Even Matt Ward is better at internal balancing and that is saying something. I understand that GW is a corporation and they are only in the business for the money but even they can't be so blind as to ignore a job done poorly.
|
|
|
Post by nurglitch on Feb 24, 2013 21:22:40 GMT
Depends on how you judge a job done poorly. I think Mr. Cruddace did a superb job.
|
|
|
Post by Nightmare20 on Feb 24, 2013 21:24:55 GMT
Depends on how you judge a job done poorly. I think Mr. Cruddace did a superb job. To a corporation, a superb job is not judged differently like individual opinions, but by dollar value. I'm pretty sure that Tyranid sales are down overall since the release of the 5th Edition Codex. From a business standpoint that doesn't sound like a good thing no matter how you slice it.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Feb 24, 2013 21:25:25 GMT
i think you'll basically find yourself alone in that opinion.
|
|
|
Post by nurglitch on Feb 24, 2013 21:26:10 GMT
cerebus10: I think you need to re-examine your assumptions rather than making the logical leap from semi-supported hypothesis to received wisdom.
gigasnail: That's okay. Appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy.
|
|
|
Post by Nightmare20 on Feb 24, 2013 21:34:02 GMT
cerebus10: I think you need to re-examine your assumptions rather than making the logical leap from semi-supported hypothesis to received wisdom. gigasnail: That's okay. Appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy. Well, do a google search on "declining tyranid sales since 5th edition" and you will see basic consensus. You don't have to agree with my opinion but you can't deny I have supporting evidence. And I really doubt there is evidence to the contrary. I'm glad you enjoy the codex, but a lot of people don't and it boggles my mind GW isn't willing to do something about it from a moneymaking stand point. Here is to hoping something is done within the year, even as insignificant as a point reduction for our less used models as it seems like our more useless abilities such as subterranean assault will not be getting revisions since they haven't in the last year of FAQ's.
|
|
|
Post by nurglitch on Feb 24, 2013 22:10:49 GMT
I deny that you have supporting evidence. You have plenty of anecdotes from a group of people with no concept of how GW works as a business, and no hard evidence of sales, revenue, costs, and profits specific to Tyranid products. Coincidentally, I don't have that either. What we have is the corporate circular, for total revenues and such, and comments made in interviews with members of the Design Studio.
For example, most of the people out there seem to think GW, as an organization, is either evil or stupid, which is pretty much a red-flag that these people's opinions are worth less than the electrons inconvenienced to express them. There's a recent interview with a member of the Design Studio on Bell of Lost Souls (or whatever they're calling it these days) where he points out that putting out an unusually successful product requires a publicly-traded company like GW to follow up that success or suffer a decline in stock price as major investors move their money to a company with steady growth. There is such a thing as 'too good' at a corporate level; slow and steady growth wins the game, particularly where the company officers are incentivized by ownership in the company.
I work for a much larger business unit of a much larger company, and it's given me some unpleasant insight into why GW isn't willing to do something about the dis-satifaction of some vocal minority on the internet: simply that where spending more money for a questionable increase in revenue is a very good reason not to do anything, particularly where there's a case to be made for spending that money on maintaining a stready stream of revenue at a greater profit. It's interesting, also, that nobody posting on blogs and message boards has yet to produce a business case for how, exactly, 'improving' the rules will generate steady revenue. On the face of it the notion 'stands to reason', which is precisely what people say when they're intent on supporting their own prejudices in some matter. The fact is that you have to start with the assumption that GW is neither stupid, nor evil, and work from there. Oh, and remember that, unlike the fans and forum loudmouths putting out half-baked homebrew rules, GW actually has constraints - budget, time, organization, etc. Given these constraints I find myself admiring what they're able to do under them, rather than complaining that the turkey on the proverbial sandwich is a little dry (that's a Simpson's reference, by the way).
Yeah, I agree, it's a pity that there are people out there that don't enjoy the current Codex, but frankly I've to find their opinions worthless. Which is interesting, because back when I was a student I agreed with these opinions and I think it degraded my hobby experience to sit around complaining when I could have been enjoying it. Which is something interesting to add, in that I can see why GW might dis-regard the vocal minority on the Internet, talking about boycots and the like, when people who enjoy the game the most don't seem to waste their time online talking about it, and spend time playing and hanging out with other people that enjoy it. The whole business puts me in mind of a character on the old Father Ted series, a Priest that doesn't nothing but complain about shoddy workmanship while kicking in doors, smashing chairs, and otherwise trying his hardest to wreck things.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Feb 24, 2013 22:20:08 GMT
arguing with nurglitch is generally not worth your effort. he's the worst sort of troll. groan inwardly at yourself for responding and move on like the rest of us.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Feb 24, 2013 22:48:14 GMT
see?
|
|
|
Post by maugrim on Feb 24, 2013 23:45:24 GMT
Actually - certain sales would have skyrocketed with the release of the Codex. People would buy lots of the new plastic Trygon models, regardless of that one mistaken rule, because they were the amazing replacement for Carnifexes (which got amazingly nerfed). Also, plastic gargoyles would've sold like hotcakes because they became instantly effective - both on their own and as a mobile cover field. New termagaunt sales would've gone up - both because of Tervigons, and because alot of the old Termagaunts would've had Devourers not Fleshborers so would need to be modified. Tyranid Primes/Warriors would've sold some more units as well. Once the Swarmlord and the actual model for Tyranofex and Tervigons came out they would've also sold well. And even Pyrovores... although they'd have been used for Biovores if anything.
When you look at GW Sales tactics, it is incredibly obvious with certain codexes that the "new" figs that got buffs in the codex are their targeted sell points, and older figs that got nerfed are not.
It is only when you get a completely new codex revamp (Dark Eldar, Grey Knights) that you get an across the board re-balance and rebuild of the army. Of course, even with GK you saw older models nerfed (Kazmarov) and new models (Coteaz, Dreadknight, Terminators) buffed. It was also obvious with the Necron codex - Lords, Warriors, Destroyers (kind-of), and Flayed Ones down (and Pariahs completely gone); Deathmarks, Immortals, Overlords, Flyers, Spiders, and Wraiths up. Chaos was a more mixed bag - some of their new units might look good on paper, but don't actually play out well on the board (currently). Dark Angels less so - their "new" units got some of the best rules.
Whenever a new codex appears - check out which models are coming out at the same time, or within a month or so. Those will be the ones which get the best buffs in the Codex.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Feb 25, 2013 0:09:18 GMT
yeah, because mutilators are so badass?
|
|
|
Post by yoritomo on Feb 25, 2013 3:48:18 GMT
arguing with nurglitch is generally not worth your effort. he's the worst sort of troll. groan inwardly at yourself for responding and move on like the rest of us. Yes, because trolls usually back up their statements with facts. Whether you like it or not Cruddace did not do a terrible job at writing the codex. Look at assaulting in both 5th and 6th editions, it's no picnic. 5th edition penalized you for having number an low armor saves, which is just about all of our army. 6th edition prevents us from assaulting quickly and gives our opponents at least two attempts to shoot at us before we assault. And both edition effectively removed all terrain that blocks line of sight. Every game I've played in 5th and 6th edition has been on planet bowling ball. Oh, I get cover saves, but I also get shot with every gun on the planet. The bottom line is that the current rules for 40K do not favor a tyranid style assault. To blame the author of our codex for the current environment is nuts. If you look at what Cruddace did with the IG codex he took the Forge World tanks that were working well and planted them in the guard codex. He also found a way to get around the 3 tank limit the force org chart imposes by creating tank squadrons. If it worked that well with the IG codex then why shouldn't he do it with the tyranid codex? It turns out that by the reason Forge World tyranids are good is because of their size, which is something he couldn't bring to regular 40k. And this is the crux of why subterranean assault won't work. Unlink the IG, Cruddace had to balance the Forge World tryanids, which he was really conservative about. And to be honest I'd rather him be too conservative than create over the top broken units like other authors I know.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Feb 25, 2013 4:08:42 GMT
yeah, um, no assault grenades on assault units, et al. totally nothing to do w/ the author of the codex. we've rehashed this a dozen times.
|
|
|
Post by Nightmare20 on Feb 25, 2013 4:43:33 GMT
I see a lot of rules that are RAI instead of RAW, models with points costs disproportionate to their power both good and bad (that were that way even when the codex was current), and other basic problems. That doesn't sound like balanced or good codex writing. And yes, tyranids still sell and 2nd wave models have helped with that but there are more dark eldar, necron, and MEQ players and thus their spending is higher overall I bet. It doesn't really matter in the end I suppose as players choose their armies for different reasons. I love my dino bugs for what they are but I am not looking forward to the new metagame developing in my area as more and more players flock to the more powerful armies and the flyer spam starts. I wish that my favourite army would receive some love considering the state of codex. I like a challenge as much as the next guy but there are a lot of scenarios I cant come up with reliable solutions for and it makes me sad.
|
|
|
Post by yoritomo on Feb 25, 2013 5:55:20 GMT
Ah yes, assault grenades; the panacea of the tyranid army. If Cruddace had only included assault grenades then it would have solved all our problems. Overwatch shots would just bounce off of us and enemy units would be forced to assault us instead of using rapid fire weapons.
Yes, assault grenades would be helpful, but we are an army that doesn't use equipment. We're not supposed to have high explosives. Tyranids are a bunch of animals, not genetically modified humans or robots. We shouldn't need grenades, we have plenty of bodies we can assault with first, or pin units down with bio weapons. Or bring back the old catalyst, yeah our guys die, but they still get to strike back in close combat.
Or how about cover rules that make sense? How do I take a penatly for jumping out of cover and assaulting an enemy in the open? I use cover so well that I catch my opponent with his pants down and what do I get? Striking last in close combat. That's not a codex problem, it's a core rules problem.
|
|