The skinny on Harpies

[patsfan32]

Thinking about making my fex in to a harpy. Is that acceptable?

[fleetofclaw]

Feb 21, 2013 15:07:39 GMT Jabberwocky said:

I've only run STC on my harpies as it hits more reliably but when I ran HVC on my tyrant I was always disappointed.

No kidding, BS3 on a small blast is garbage and it doesn't help that the venom canon is garbage anyway.

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[Jabberwocky]

Feb 21, 2013 15:37:01 GMT patsfan32 said:

Thinking about making my fex in to a harpy. Is that acceptable?

That's what mine are made of.

[jahatch42878]

I will have to re-read the FAQ about deep strike (makes more sense that they can)... although if they deep strike do you get to decide if they are swooping or gliding when they arrive? or do they basically have to hide for a turn before they can take off again?

(why does it seem like just when I think I've got the rules figured out a new situation arises that I haven't thought of!!!)

As for HVC against Necrons - the open-topped nature of most of their vehicles is good for the HVC, but I have to agree that the BS of 3 and small template isn't great... then again, their vehicles are somewhat oddly shaped so maybe gives you a better chance to hit 'em with the S9 shot... not saying I'd do it all the time, but not as bad as vs some enemies. Josh

[rpricew]

I've been running 3 Harpies in my 2K list and they are great performers. For the plus reasons already listed... cheap FMCs that can reach out and touch someone turn 1.

I give them the TL HVC and tend to focus fire scoring 3-6 glances/Penetrating shots depending on how closely grouped my opponent is. The TL really helps here. Turn 2-3 charge with the Assault Grenades/Sonic Screech is a great support role for the Harpy when your opponent is hiding in cover.

They are a great compliment to a relatively slow army and they draw fire like crazy. Only the really savvy opponent's know to ignore them early and focus on my troops, everyone else falls in the trap of Harpy chasing while I advance and take control of the board.

[patsfan32]

rpricew: I like the sound of what you got going, Id love to make a list based on speed, Harpys gargoyles, shrikes, raveners and whatnot. I would also use flyrants as AA but unfortunately we do not have any fast troop choices and no transports :/. To compensate for our lack of transports I think We need more infantry characterized as beasts, and primes should unlock raveners and shrikes as troops. Or make a tervigon for hormys and make them beasts. We definitely need more fast units since we are supposedly the alpha predators of the universe...

[ZergLord]

Feb 21, 2013 1:21:24 GMT patsfan32 said:

So my question is simple. What exactly is wrong with harpies that make them not very fieldable?

Simple: 4+ Save. Harpy gets owned by Flakk missiles and alike. And if Harpy gets shot and opts for a cover save, it can't fire its weapons because you can't snap shot blasts.

In the current state, Harpies are unplayable.

[infornography]

Unplayable is a clear exaggeration. They are definitely suboptimal, but a lot of people get use out of them.

As far as how to deal with the cover save issue, put it in cover. It benefits from cover just fine and you don't have to jink to get it.

[guns]

I used one for the first time last week (in my first game against Dark Eldar) and it did pretty well.

DE seem like a decent candidate to throw a Harpy against, since they're the only army that a HVC is actually good against, and their poison isn't as annoying when directed at a Harpy since it is "losing" fewer points of toughness than another MC would be in the exchange. Although the low armour save sucks.

[ZergLord]

Feb 22, 2013 9:59:10 GMT infornography said:

As far as how to deal with the cover save issue, put it in cover. It benefits from cover just fine and you don't have to jink to get it.

That's a horrible idea. So you're suggesting that it's better to put it in gliding mode where it is threatened by worse things than Flakk missiles (Autocannon Havocs for instance) than in Gliding mode where only anti air guns and Flakk can reliably hit it? What?

And yes, I'm not exaggerating when I'm saying that Harpies are unplayable. Its weapons aren't very impressive and when it gets fired upon you either opt to Dive and it can't fire weapons or you don't and it takes a bunch of wounds and probably dies. If it were 100-120 points I wouldn't complain, but it isn't. That's what I call unplayable.

[GuardDog78]

I'm pretty sure he means ending your swooping movement in cover...not switching to glide. Then he benefits from hard to hit and can get a cover save if needed...

[swarmy]

Feb 22, 2013 16:42:52 GMT ZergLord said:

Feb 22, 2013 9:59:10 GMT infornography said:

As far as how to deal with the cover save issue, put it in cover. It benefits from cover just fine and you don't have to jink to get it.

That's a horrible idea. So you're suggesting that it's better to put it in gliding mode where it is threatened by worse things than Flakk missiles (Autocannon Havocs for instance) than in Gliding mode where only anti air guns and Flakk can reliably hit it? What?

And yes, I'm not exaggerating when I'm saying that Harpies are unplayable. Its weapons aren't very impressive and when it gets fired upon you either opt to Dive and it can't fire weapons or you don't and it takes a bunch of wounds and probably dies. If it were 100-120 points I wouldn't complain, but it isn't. That's what I call unplayable.

Aren't some people in this thread saying they have used them to some degree of success though? Sure it needs work, but it's not a flaming pile of garbage. Our entire army is made of expendables so doesn't it stand to reason it has less to do with it's individual performance and more to do with what it forces your opponent to do? Seeing as how everyone is in a "double devourer flyrant is the way, bro" mindset I don't see how it's all bad to have extra *swooping* targets with a 3 foot shooting range skirting along forcing them to choose what's most important for their anti-air.

[patsfan32]

^^^this is exactly the way I see it as well. I may make it a point to never run a cookie cutter list again as this flyrant/tervi mindset is really sad. Theres gotta be SOME different way to win with a few different units.

[ZergLord]

Feb 22, 2013 16:46:31 GMT GuardDog78 said:

I'm pretty sure he means ending your swooping movement in cover...not switching to glue. Then he benefits from hard to hit and can get a cover save if needed...

How's that gonna work? A FMC can't get a cover save from area terrain. Yes, you can try to hide it behind a wall or smaller building or something like that, but good luck playing on a terrain setup where you can constantly protect a Harpy.

Aren't some people in this thread saying they have used them to some degree of success though?

So what? I made my Warriors and Bonesword Shrikes work for me, but you don't see me recommending them or saying that they're good units. It doesn't matter if you make a bad or mediocre unit work, they're still not good. They may work for you for some reason, but they probably won't work for other people.

The fact is: Harpies have some huge flaws and their survival is heavily dependable on the terrain setup. Sure, maybe you could make them work by taking 3 of them and 2 Flyrants, but look how much this will cost you. Again, if they were 100-120 points it would've been be ok to take Harpies if you wanted but they cost like a vanilla Tervigon. Not worth it.

[patsfan32]

Thats not the point. You are saying completely unplayable. We are not arguing that we have better units but every unit can be made to work if we put our minds to it. Just the fact that people find some use is harpys ot means they are obviously playable. Pyrovore on the other hand....realllyyyyyy have to stretch to make any argument for hIm :/