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Post by Lanesend on Feb 21, 2013 14:32:26 GMT
The nice thing about being able to swap your codex powers for Rulebook powers, is that you can decide what to do right before the battle. For example: If you have a unit of Zoanthropes, and you see a lot of tanks, you keep their original powers. If you see a lot of Terminators, you can decide to swap powers and go for Psychic Shriek (telepathy primaris) and a roll on biomancy. If you think you need lots Feel No Pain, roll twice on Biomancy and hope for Endurance.
I think there is no other army in 40k who can field as many psykers as Tyranids. It's a pretty good thing.
The big downside of course, is that the new powers are rolled for randomly, but if you have enough psykers, a few of them will roll the powers you are aiming for.
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Post by chuckles on Feb 21, 2013 15:05:55 GMT
Grey Knights, Tyranids and Eldar all have the ability to bring 14 psykers (setting points values and list competence aside for 2 seconds), if you count a squad with Brotherhood of Psykers as a single psyker. But certainly there's no army that can take MORE than we can (at least not that I can think of).
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Post by swarmy on Feb 21, 2013 17:33:35 GMT
By the strict rules in the book, enfeeble does stack with itself. By my personal reading, I don't think that was the intention. Most of the major tournaments that I know of, allows them to stack. For what that is worth. Listen, everyone loves to shoot T2 marines don't invoke the FAQ nerf-hammer . I'm sure there's a GW spy lurking in the shadows, biding his time, waiting for the moment to strike. We have already said too much...
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Post by voncrown on Feb 21, 2013 18:56:59 GMT
Grey Knights, Tyranids and Eldar all have the ability to bring 14 psykers (setting points values and list competence aside for 2 seconds), if you count a squad with Brotherhood of Psykers as a single psyker. But certainly there's no army that can take MORE than we can (at least not that I can think of). I assume when you say eldar can bring 14 psykers, you're referring to taking warlocks on units? Technically true, yeah, but warlocks, as I understand it, are mastery level 0 and can't roll on BRB tables at present. So really only Grey Knights compete, as far as the discussion we're having. Eldar can have 2 (4 at 2000+ pts) real psykers.
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Post by FTGTEvan on Feb 21, 2013 19:26:44 GMT
Speaking of Psyker mastery levels, is it just me, or is it a bit insane fluff-wsie that trained humans can be level 3 while creatures spawned solely as psychic conductors (Nids in general, specifically Zoans) are level 1, and Eldar Farseers, arguably the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, are also 1, with the option to upgrade to 2?
Rules wise, probably not a bad thing, as a Lvl 2 or 3 tervigon would be way OP.
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Post by ranmafan on Feb 21, 2013 19:34:40 GMT
The best powers by far: Biomancy - Iron Arm, Endurance, Warp Speed Telekinesis - Objuration mechanicum, Telekine Dome, Gate of Infinity Telepathy - Invisiblility (Swarmlord only) Enfeeble and Life Leech are very subjective, however Enfeeble is definitely a good power multiplier - Power fist denying your T4 models Feel no Pain? Enfeeble. Rolled Hemorrhage? Enfeeble. Didn't get Iron Arm on that Broodlord? Enfeeble. Rolled Enfeeble on another model? Stack Enfeebles! On its own, Enfeeble is of limited use, but combined with other powers/tactics it can be quite amazing. Ummmm.... Enfeeble doesn't stack with itself. Telepathy is worth looking at for the Primaris. If you roll what you want on your first 2 rolls for a Tervigon, it's worth taking Psychic Shriek as your third power. 1) Enfeeble does stack. The thing is you cannot use the same psychic power twice from the same model, but two different models CAN cast Enfeeble on the same target. There is nothing in the rulebook stating that Blessings and Maledictions do NOT stack (and although it wasn't FAQ'd, I remember reading it was a point in a tournament where it was ruled as stackable) 2) I forgot one more point: If you field a Parasite of Mortrex and have Enfeeble, it'll mean a bad time for the opponent... 3) The thing with Telepathy is that psychic shriek is amazingly useful, but otherwise only the Swarmlord will find it worth rolling (with any certainty of using any power rolled). It IS worth noting that a brood of 3 Zoanthropes dropped in via Spore and using this ability is akin to a massive Doom of Malan'tai (lol Malaysia) alpha-strike - although I personally prefer Warp Lance and Warp Blast. And yes - Dropping Marines to T2 and then throwing AG gants at them is... satisfying. "I'm sorry, you had an apothecary? Feel No Pain doesn't work this time, my friend." My recommendation - Roll Biomancy. If the model rolls Iron Arm or Endurance (1 or 3), you can immediately opt to pick Telekinesis or Telepathy. Zoanthropes usually roll 1 biomancy power and use Psychic Shriek - this turns them into an amazing buffing unit w/ a consistent damage output (but they lose their dedicated anti-heavy-tank role - which is fine if there are no Land Raiders/Monoliths on the table) - or just go pure Biomancy (remember - each Zoanthrope rolls for its powers separately!) IMO not worth it, use them for their default powers. Broodlords should always go for Biomancy/Telekinesis. (or pure Biomancy) - They benefit from just about every single power (except the witchfire powers of course) in Biomancy, and Telekinesis has a few useful abilities if you get lucky. Tervigons are support units. They almost always benefit from 2 biomancy powers, and if you bought a third power you CAN get Psychic Shriek to augment the Tervigon's shooting (assuming you don't use another power before) - Think of Tervigons as aircraft carriers. Extremely large, intimidating, but on their own not a serious threat. Their threat comes from their ability to launch troops and bring a LOT of force-multiplier support skills to the army. Even if you roll Iron Arm (which only affects the psyker), a S8 T9 tervigon rampaging through the enemy ranks is pure gold. Hive Tyrants have more options - depending on the roll. You can't go wrong with Biomancy, of course, but Telepathy can help soften up really hard enemies before you attack. Telekinesis doesn't work with the Tyrant too well (especially if it's a Dakkarant) - there's only one Tyrant and those skills don't multiply the Tyrant's abilities all that much. The Swarmlord however, can roll on any of the three tables and make use of any of them. Having shooting attacks, ridiculous toughness, warp speed, deep strike, etc. are all gravy for a Swarmlord. Just my 2 cents'.
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Post by voncrown on Feb 22, 2013 2:20:33 GMT
I'm a little surprised nobody ever mentions the telekinesis primaris power. It's not exactly overwhelmingly amazing, sure, but it has some definite situational uses. As long as you manage to force one save (regardless of the actual outcome), you can force an entire unit to move as through difficult terrain. And, you can use it to pseudo-snipe an enemy close combat character that could be trouble before a charge, to cut their init in half. Situational, maybe, but it could really swing a high stakes melee combat.
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Post by grarik on Feb 22, 2013 2:50:55 GMT
Grey Knights, Tyranids and Eldar all have the ability to bring 14 psykers (setting points values and list competence aside for 2 seconds), if you count a squad with Brotherhood of Psykers as a single psyker. But certainly there's no army that can take MORE than we can (at least not that I can think of). It's better then that, Tyranids can get 17 psykers below 2000pt (2 tyrants/tervigons, 9 zoanthropes and 6 broodlords), and technically, 24 for grey knights! (2 inquisitors with psychic powers, 3 techmarines, six 5 man strike squads, three 5 man interceptor squads, three purgation squads, and 7 rhinos. Of course this list would be rubbish, since you couldnt buy any weapons, but it is possible! )
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Post by ranmafan on Feb 22, 2013 2:57:29 GMT
I'm a little surprised nobody ever mentions the telekinesis primaris power. It's not exactly overwhelmingly amazing, sure, but it has some definite situational uses. As long as you manage to force one save (regardless of the actual outcome), you can force an entire unit to move as through difficult terrain. And, you can use it to pseudo-snipe an enemy close combat character that could be trouble before a charge, to cut their init in half. Situational, maybe, but it could really swing a high stakes melee combat. Enfeeble also does that. But yeah - forcing people to take Difficult Terrain is quite evil.
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Post by voncrown on Feb 22, 2013 4:29:59 GMT
Enfeeble also does that. But yeah - forcing people to take Difficult Terrain is quite evil. Yeah, but enfeeble can't be guaranteed. And doesn't give the same initiative penalty.
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Post by Nightmare20 on Feb 22, 2013 6:15:57 GMT
I love enfeeble on Chaos Bikers with Mark of Nurgle. Makes it so all terrain is considered difficult terrain and bikers treat difficult terrain as dangerous.
Move, I dare you.
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Post by coredump on Feb 22, 2013 15:47:37 GMT
Nice, but dangerous terrain is 1:6, then the armor save is 1:3. So 6 bikes will lose one model after 3 turns of casting that power on them each turn. I am sure I can get much better results from many other powers.
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Post by Davor on Feb 23, 2013 0:59:57 GMT
Just remember the Brood Lord CAN'T use any witch fire powers or any power that needs to shoot with a BS.
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Post by Nightmare20 on Feb 23, 2013 1:20:02 GMT
Nice, but dangerous terrain is 1:6, then the armor save is 1:3. So 6 bikes will lose one model after 3 turns of casting that power on them each turn. I am sure I can get much better results from many other powers. Well that may be the math but my opponents are often too scared to move the unit afterwards so it is more for the intimidation factor. Also, he ignored it and moved his guys the first time and lost 2 out of 5 guys with an unlucky roll. I guess he really doesn't want that to happen again and that is fine by me.
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Post by ranmafan on Feb 23, 2013 16:48:08 GMT
Nice, but dangerous terrain is 1:6, then the armor save is 1:3. So 6 bikes will lose one model after 3 turns of casting that power on them each turn. I am sure I can get much better results from many other powers. It's all purely situational. I enjoy figuring out all sorts of ways of taking tactical advantage of whatever the dice gods have granted me. I DO like the idea that bikers and jetbikes are being forced to take Dangerous Terrain rolls everytime they move - simply forcing the opponent to roll more dice is always a fun way to go. I'm sure as I get more adventurous and roll more psychic discipline schools beyond Biomancy I'll start seeing weird combos appear that should be interesting. Enfeeble also does that. But yeah - forcing people to take Difficult Terrain is quite evil. Yeah, but enfeeble can't be guaranteed. And doesn't give the same initiative penalty. Indeed, but it's a Malediction - meaning I can debuff someone at the start of my movement phase, and then target someone else instead. Pros and Cons. Shooting attacks tend to be quite iffy on Nid models - I personally prefer consistency of behaviour.
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