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Post by Bukimimaru on Jan 20, 2013 23:13:44 GMT
When the new rule book came out, I decided (like many people) to pick up the Dark Vengeance box set. I wasn't that fussed on the Chaos marines, but if I was going to pick up a new rule book anyway, I figured I may as well spend the extra crash and add to my little Space Marine army. (the little known Hawk Lords if anyone's interested).
Now I've begun to wrap my head around the new rules and finished painted up most of my current 'nids, I thought I may as well give the little Chaos army a trial run.
After researching a bit, leafing through the codex and getting the Chaos fluff under my belt, I realised how much I love the idea of having a little Nurgle army.
HQ - 220
Daemon Prince
Daemon of Nurgle; wings; power armour.
Elites - 275
5 Possessed
Mark of Nurgle.
Helbrute
twin-linked heavy bolter; power fist (heavy flamer).
Troops - 55
10 Chaos Cultists
heavy stubber.
Here a quick little list I threw together using the models from Black Reach mixed with a few other models I had lying around.
What you you guys recommend I go for next? Other Nurgle themed army lists online focus heavily on Plague Marines, but my understanding is that they count as Elites unless I field Typhus as well.
What else is recommended for a newbie Nurgle enthusiast?
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Post by infornography on Jan 21, 2013 1:48:15 GMT
Bikers. Nurgle bikers are amazing. Also A Chaos Lord with a mark of Nurgle is pretty amazing too, especially if you put him on a bike as well.
There are also always plague marines. Just don't try to do too much with them.
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Post by gammaxj on Jan 22, 2013 1:18:35 GMT
It really depends on what army style you want to play. Personally, I play my CSMs so I'm assaulting you turn 2, 3 at the latest. For that you need bikes, lots of bikes (bikes are AMAZING now, especially a for a lord w/ nurgle). You'll also want spawn, since nurgle spawn are the best variant (T6, 3 wounds, etc) and they help you control the board. Oh, and Typhus. Typhus is an unholy monster in CC, almost nothing can touch him with his ridiculously awesome gear.
The possessed aren't that good, I just used the ones that I got in my starter set for conversions. You'll probably want to convert a chosen from Dark Vengeance into a biker lord. Helbrutes aren't that good either, you really have to dedicate it to shooting (two guns) or combat (power scourge/thunder hammer) to make it cost effective, but its rage table doesn't really work for both. YMMV.
For any competitive nurgle army, your core should be typhus and 2 squads of plague marines (plague marines are elites, like all cult troops, but when you purchase a chaos lord or the special character of that god (for example, a nurgle lord or typhus) the cult marines become troops). Nurgle daemon princes are also good, as you can get a 3+ jink save with shrouded.
Tl;DR
Get typhus and 2 squads of plague marines
bikes are good
CSMs are really customizable, your army can really be whatever you want (I have a 34 bike army in 2000 points).
For more feedback going to need some more info.
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Post by Lanesend on Jan 22, 2013 9:21:00 GMT
Well, Typhus is very good, but also very expensive, pointwise. For a smaller army I would stick with a Nurgle biker Lord. He also unlocks PMs as Troop choice.
You will also need at least another Troops choice.
Plague Marines are very good, but for lower point armies, normal Chaos Marines with MON can work too. You'll get a lot more bodies on the table than with "pure" Plague Marines. although the Feel No Pain is very nice on them.
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Post by ZergLord on Jan 22, 2013 12:51:50 GMT
Chaos Sorcerers are a must-have IMO. Doesn't need to be Nurgle, just upgrade him to Lvl 3 and give him a Spell Familiar, and you're done.
Three main ways to build a Nurgle Lord: Cheap Lord with Brand just to unlock PMs as troops, Bike Lord or Typhus. Typhus is better than any Terminator Lord BTW.
Always take at least 2 units of CSMs/PMs. Plague marines are good in 5s and 7s, always take double Plasmaguns.
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Post by Bukimimaru on Jan 22, 2013 13:00:29 GMT
Thank you Gammaxj, that's some really useful information.
I've always liked the idea of using Typhus , but he is very expense for what is, at the moment, a very small army.
I hadn't considered using bikes as my previous experience with them (my space marine army) has been pretty weak at best.
What makes chaos bikes better, is it the MON or is there something I have over looked?
Also, I've never used Beasts before, how do the Nurgle spawn play?
None of the other army lists I've looked over recently mentioned the chaos spawn, why do you prefer them?
I agree with what you said about the Hellbrute. I played a small started game against some Necron the other day, and my Hellbrute got mulched very quickly, along with the Possessed troops.
The cultists did surprisingly well at tying up some of the Necron troops, but the real stars were the Deamon Prince and the Chaos Lord.
I lost the match, but it was a very useful experience for learning which troops are best at what.
finally, how do you guys get on with Obliterators? They seem to be one of the most popular heavy support units, and they fit quite nicely with the Nurgle theme.
--------------------------------
How's this looking?
HQ - 450
Daemon Prince
Daemon of Nurgle; wings; power armour.
Typhus
Elites - 262
7 Chosen
power weapon; power fist; pair of lightning claws; meltagun; Mark of Nurgle.
• Chaos Rhino
Troops - 486
25 Plague Zombies
7 Plague Marines
2× meltagun.
7 Plague Marines
2× meltagun.
Fast Attack - 398
10 Chaos Bikers
Chaos Biker Champion (melta bombs); plasma gun; Mark of Nurgle.
3 Chaos Spawn
Mark of Nurgle.
Heavy Support - 152
1 Obliterator
Mark of Nurgle.
1 Obliterator
Mark of Nurgle.
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Post by gammaxj on Jan 22, 2013 19:26:59 GMT
For the bikes, let me put it this way: ten bikes with 2 plasma guns, the mark of slaanesh, and the Icon of Excess is 315 points. For that you get a 10 T5 bikes with FnP. The reason why ours are better is they are roughly 20-30% cheaper than the loyalist bikes and you can make them much more specialized with marks.
Plague zombies are ok, but they have slow and purposeful, so be careful with that. Oblits with nurgle are good, they can't be insta-killed by lascannons anymore. I would drop the chosen, but I have heard of some people getting really good results with them. Try to get rhinos on the plague marines, it will make them much more useful. Bikes are fine, I would split the spawn up into 2 unit, gives them more flexibility. For the list I would drop 1 spawn and split the unit in half, drop some stuff from the chosen, and pick up two rhinos on the plagues.
Beasts (Spawn) move 12 inches in the movement phase and ignore cover. This allows them to get a 24" charge off, which makes them very fast.
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Post by Bukimimaru on Jan 22, 2013 20:25:59 GMT
Ok, how's this:
Chaos Tester (Chaos_Space_Marines)
HQ - 450
Daemon Prince (220)
Daemon of Nurgle; wings; power armour.
Typhus (230)
Troops - 556
25 Plague Zombies (110)
7 Plague Marines (223)
2× meltagun.
• Chaos Rhino
7 Plague Marines (223)
2× meltagun.
• Chaos Rhino
Fast Attack - 372
10 Chaos Bikers (300)
Chaos Biker Champion (melta bombs); icon of excess; 2× plasma gun; Mark of Slaanesh.
1 Chaos Spawn (36)
Mark of Nurgle.
1 Chaos Spawn (36)
Mark of Nurgle.
Heavy Support - 152
1 Obliterator (76)
Mark of Nurgle.
1 Obliterator (76)
Mark of Nurgle.
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I notice that my elite slots are completely bare, and I've still got a couple of hundred points to play with. What's the word on Chaos Terminators?
What's missing that still follows the Nurgle theme I've got going on?
Sorry I keep updating the army lists, but I want to know exactly what I want before I start buying more models.
I made the same mistake with my 'nids and my Space Marines and I'm determined to not blow any more cash than I need to with my Chaos Marines.
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Post by gammaxj on Jan 22, 2013 20:58:15 GMT
The one thing that I think you are doing wrong is going completely by my advice. I play a very competitive CSMs army, and as a result most people really want me to play Nids when I play them. I also run with Chaos Undivided, and when I do mark units it is usually only one or two that have the same mark (in my 2000 point list I have 2 Mok, 1 MoS, 1 MoN, and 2 MoT). I do not play nurgle only, and the reason I know so much about it is because nurgle is the god to beat right now. Go with what you want to play. You want nurgle bikes, go with nurgle bikes. That said, the best nurgle units in the dex (my views): Plague Marines Typhus Daemon Prince Bikes Spawn Your list is good already too. Termis are great, just don'te expect them to stand up to TH/SS Wolf Guard with Grimnar.  Most tournament lists are made up of these in combination with Epi. I wouldn't recommend doing that if you want friends. You said that you played a game already. Think about it: it doesn't matter what units do well, its what you like. You then can make those lists good based on your army. I have a friend that runs 3 Helbrutes and 3 Forgefiends with 2 Warpsmiths, and he usually stomps me. My advice right now would be to play around 3-4 more games. Do whatever you want, spam 180 plague zombies, bring 30 bikes, bring 50 marines, bring 50 Zerkers and Kharn, bring Abaddon and 60 Chosen all with meltaguns. If there is one great thing about this codex, it is it's flexibility. There are a ludicrous number of way to customize your army. So get out there and proxy!  |
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Post by Bukimimaru on Jan 22, 2013 22:05:07 GMT
After a bit of number crunching on the GW website, I have come to the realisation that I'm gonna have to spend another £250 on models alone before I can get my marines into a fit state. Oh well, it's not like I thought ths was a cheap hobby anyway.  My only issue with sending out a huge squad of bikers is that you only seem to be able to buy them from the GW one at a time. I might have a snoop around eBay and see if I can get them in bulk... Anyway, enough griping, thanks for the help guys, it was really insightful. If anyone has anything they would like to add, I'm always looking for tips. |
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Post by Bukimimaru on Jan 27, 2013 22:39:57 GMT
Ok, I haven't picked up any new models yet ( payday next week, yay!) but I want to get a little practise under my belt.
A friend of mine is coming over tomorrow to play a little 750 point elimination match. Nothing serious, just a friendly "getting to know your units" kind of thing.
I'm expecting him to field an Ork army, all kitted out for CC. Unfortunately, what few models I have are geared for CC as well. I usually I prefer to shoot Orks down before they can get close.
He often fields Burna Boys in a Trukk, and he is very fond of Warbosses in mega armour. He has lots of Deffkoptas, but I'm not expecting him to use them at such a low point battle. He also has lots of bikes, but I've never known him to actually field them yet....
Here's what I plan to field:
Test Army (Chaos_Space_Marines)
HQ - 360
Daemon Prince
Daemon of Nurgle; Burning Brand of Skalathrax; wings; power armour.
Chaos Lord
Mark of Nurgle; power weapon; plasma pistol.
Elites - 270
5 Possessed
Mark of Nurgle.
Helbrute
power fist (heavy flamer).
Troops - 112
10 Chaos Cultists
Cultist Champion (shotgun); heavy stubber.
10 Chaos Cultists
flamer.
I still have a few points to spare but I'm not sure where to spend them.
The only other models I have are 7 chosen, so if they would work better let me know and I can swap them in.
As I'm still very new to Chaos and any tips or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
If anyone's interested, I might put up a post battle report, or at very least let you guys know how it went.
EDIT:
just found out he might be using vanilla marines. If that's the case I'll be slapping Veterans of the Long War for the extra Ld and re-rolls to hit.
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Post by infornography on Jan 29, 2013 9:24:33 GMT
I wouldn't bother with those posessed. Look at their cost! You could get terminators for significantly less than that and they have a 2+ armor and power weapons.
Also I would definitely take more troops than just two minimal units of cultists. If you are already taking a nurgle lord you can take Plague Marines as troops and regular space marine troops are pretty good as well. With as many objective based missions in 6th as there are you really need a good bit more than the minimal troops choices.
You can always field your chosen models as generic chaos space marines.
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Post by Bukimimaru on Jan 29, 2013 19:40:56 GMT
Well, I won the game, but it was a close call.
My friend ended up using vanilla marines rather than his Orks, which actually worked out pretty well.
My cultist soaked up most of the fire power, my Chaos Lord sliced through his Terminators, the Possesed didn't do much but chase off his scouts, and the Daemon Prince and the Hellbrute ate up a Tac Squad each. I'll be honest, it only went my way due to my opponent having some appalling rolls, but a win is a win.
I'm still too low on models and money to field Terms or Plaguemarines, but I will be Picking up some Plagies and a Rhino on Friday.
I hadn't noticed how much the Possesed cost compared to other units, so yeah, I think I'll be swapping them out as soon as I can get my hands on some Terms.
I really didn't want to field just the cultists but they are currently the only troop choices I have. Saying that, they were surprisingly useful to use as a bullet blanket.
In future I will field my Chosen guys as standard marines, or play them as a second squad of plague marines.
In a few weeks (by then I should have at least 1 squad of Plague Marines a Rhino and maybe some Spawn) I'll be having a doubles objective match against half Space Wolves and half Ultramarines. I'll be teamed up with a Chaos Daemon player. Between us we'll have 3 Daemon Princes, so I'm looking forward to that.
Bearing my upcoming game in mind, is there anything I should focus on / buy in particular?
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Post by infornography on Jan 30, 2013 0:38:12 GMT
I would make my first priority troops. Plague marines and standard chaos space marines. Then I would focus on special infantry like terminators and bikers.
Once you have those out of the way, a forgefiend and/or a heldrake would be good picks. The recent FAQ made Heldrakes MUCH nastier.
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Post by Bukimimaru on Jan 30, 2013 12:37:58 GMT
Turns out my buddy has 2 princes and a bloodthirster. Looks like we are gonna have 4 MC's on the board at once. That should be quite a worry for the loyalist swine.
Naturally I'll be slapping Vets of the Long War on the for the re-rolls, but I'm a bit worried about the Space Wolves.
I've never played against the puppies before, so I don't know what to expect. They're good at phsycic stuff right?
Is there anything I should be on the look out for, or any weakness I could exploit against him? He will be using the guys riding on the wolves.
I 'll get some Plague Marines tomorrow and a Rhino, once that's sorted I'll get some more Plague Marines, some bikes and some spawn in the following weeks.
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