Playing the Harpy

[Bane Wordsmith]

That GW doesn't have a model for the Harpy I consider a personal challenge to build one. And I would like to run for a bit, to give it a chance to redeem itself in my eyes.
Does anyone use this model? I absolutely love it, expecially witht the new flying rules. Untill I look a it's points cost. Then I hate it. I realise it was costed knowing we were going into flyers. But even then is it justified?
I really want to use these models but I'm not sure if it makes sense too.

[infornography]

They are overpriced for what they bring. You can get 3 biovores for the cost and they will do more total damage with roughly the same flexibility of blast placement and be a lot safer.

[rpricew]

Bane,

Rule of cool when it comes to the Harpy. I've been running one lately...sometimes three. I am running fun games against friends and I like my converted Harpy. It works, but its not the most efficient unit. But its fun to play.

If you want to run it, then do so. Just be aware of its shortcomings.

[Anggul]

Jan 2, 2013 1:57:19 GMT Bane Wordsmith said:

I realise it was costed knowing we were going into flyers. But even then is it justified?

Not even that, don't give the writer credit where it isn't due. It really is just that badly written.

[Bane Wordsmith]

haha, good response guys. Pretty much along the same lines I was thinking.
rpricew, Rule of cool. I like that.
I was thinking of running a list with 2 Harpys, a Flyrant, two squads of biovores and the rest into troops. Capped at 1000. Not competitive. But it looks a lot of fun.
I wish the Harpy was cheap enough to make it cost effective. I love that you ca choose a strength 9 weapon or pinning. It's a good choice. Personaly I love the idea of flying around, Vector striking and pinning everything around.

[Jabberwocky]

It isn't that pricey when you consider it can flip a Landraider or smash an AV14 building. It can ID a T5 character. It can throw out S6 pie plates at 36" twin linked. It can put out 4 different attacks once up close, as many as 3 at once, on 3 different targets if you choose. It sucks up a lot more shooting than you'd be expect, simply because it's hard to hit. It can even leave the board in kill point games, to save it's skin.

The real issue is the Tervigon is so damn cheap!!

[nurglitch]

Don't forget that Move Through Cover means that a gliding Harpy (and Hive Tyrant for that matter) can jump in and out of cover without any risk.

You can probably achieve some interesting things in combination with Winged Hive Tyrants, particularly if you use them as bait for enemy flyers.

[Davor]

In about a year or 2, when we get a new codex, I am sure the price for the Carnifex will go down, the price for the Tervigon will go up and the price for the Harpy will go DOWN considerably. Why? I am sure GW will release a dual kit Harpy/whatever and will want to sell lots of them just like the Trygon and will have good to awsome rules for cheap point costs.

Sadly we will wait until then. Use them now and just have fun. In a year or 2 then use them competively.

[yoritomo]

Using the Harpy:

I find that it helps to think of a unit like the harpy in terms of what it brings to the table and what the drawbacks to the unit are. In this case the harpy bring a hard to hit unit to your army with one of the tyranid big guns (and it's twin-linked). Since the cost to switch from the stranglethorn to the heavy venom cannon is small I consider them interchangeable. Furthermore, since the guns have long ranges and the harpy can cover great distances as a flyer; you should be able to pick your targets freely as well as the side you engage them from. This ensures that the harpy will do maximum damage when it shoots.

Unfortunately, while the harpy is hard to hit, it isn't hard to kill. What few hits it does take will likely wound it. I don't know about you, but for the amount of points that I'm paying for a harpy I'd like to have something that isn't killed by heavy bolters. And while it does have the range and maneuverability to get prime shots on units, the anti-tank weapon can't actually destroy a tank on its own and the anti-infantry weapon doesn't have enough Ap to beat anything better than a guardsman. So the harpy can do a ton of damage, but your opponent will probably shake it off like an ice cream headache. And let's not forget that both guns are blast weapons, so no intercepting other flyers.

As a not so good/not so bad, the harpy only carries one big gun. It's bad as a monstrous creature can fire two weapons, and if I can fire two weapons then I really want two weapons. It's also good as 6th edition has given us some shooting options that don't require us to have a second weapon. Plus that one gun is twin-linked, so while we do lose the ability to get two hits in one turn we keep nearly the same chance for landing a hit.

The harpy also has some interesting up close an personal abilities. The first it the once per game spore barrage. There are few weapons that will clear out a horde as a spore barrage. And while a unit of biovores does it better, it's worth having if you're going to get in close with your harpy. The second is vector strike. A new addition to the harpy in 6th edition, 2-4 marine killing hits is nothing to sneeze at. Finally, the harpy has the sonic screech ability. This is incredibly useful when assaulting as it allows your harpy to go first. It actually gets better as the unit he assaults takes the penality, so all units that assault with the harpy will probably go first.


So all this evaluation of the harpy is nice, but I'm guessing you're wondering how to put this theory into practice (assuming you've made it this far). Well, I'd try to keep him on the outskirts of the battle. This way I can use his maneuverability to keep him from getting shot as much while still being able to affect the battle. If he's got the stranglethorn cannon then I'm looking for targets of opportunity, large groups of infantry. That cannon is a S6 weapon, it will do a ton of wounds if I can get a ton of hits off that large blast. If he's got the heavy venom cannon then I'm saving him for last so that I can shoot at vehicles with one hull point. He may not be able to kill a vehicle in one hit, but he does a great job of mopping up and putting that final hit on a vehicle.

While I'm trying to keep him on the outskirts of the battle, my goal is to get him close to my opponent's support units. The harpy is going to be easily outclassed by mobs of guys or high quality assault units, but against a unit like devestators a harpy should be able to mop up. And more importantly he's got speed to get there quickly. When to switch him over from a support fire unit to an assault unit is going to be the key to his success.

I don't share the pessimistic view of the harpy that others here have. However, I will be the first to note that there are other units that can do what a harpy can do, and are going to be easier to use. If you do decide to use a harpy then I'd prepare yourself for a pretty steep learning curve.

[ranmafan]

I find Harpies invaluable for several things:
1) Disposable tank-busters: If the opponent has a LR or Vindis, I throw my harpies at them with Smash, and maybe a Vector Strike/Spore Mine Cyst if the opportunity allows it.

2) Deathstar Blob sniping: There are some army lists (Eldar deathblob w/ Fuegen, Farseer, etc.) that are really hard to kill from the front... but not from the back, or vector strikes.

3) Bullet Magnet: Deep Striking or Swooping a Harpy near the enemy's heavy weapons is a good way to keep fire off your Tervigon/Tyrant for a turn or two; it might be less survivable than a Carnifex but mathematically it's much harder to shoot one down without a Quad gun or Flakks (and ALWAYS move it from cover to cover).

4) Tarpits: Against small tactical marine squads with heavy weapons, with no better options available to you, a Harpy can quite handily keep a 5-man marine squad tied up (and possibly wipe them out by the end of the enemy's assault turn)

I always field them in pairs; I expect one to die before reaching the enemy... but pairing them up ensures redundancy and makes sure the opponent always keeps an eye on them.

[Bane Wordsmith]

yoritomo, Excellently written, I throughly enjoyed reading that.

I think thanks to everyones comments I am definetly playing the Harpy, and I want more than one. They look fun, they sound like they play pretty fun, and if used well can do some damage.
I do think 2 Harpys and a Flyrant would cause some serious worry if someone doesn't have any anti-ai, but not so bd I'll get people have grumps that 'm air spamming.

The plan was to run round with, aiming to vector strike as much as possible and (thank god FMC can shoot in any direction) then try to pin down units with the Stranglethorn, which is fairly certain to aways hit with re-rolls. that allows the troops to come up the board. With biovores in the back hasseling any threatening troops (eg, trying to hold objectives) and the Flyrant causing havocs flying around intercepting anything that could disrupt the other unit. Plus prefered enemy.

Seems pretty solid. It would be fun to pay anyway, and thats the main aim.

[Davor]

So how did you guys make a harpy? What kits did you use? What did you use for wing if not the new HT kit? After reading this thread, I think I will try one or two (depending how expensive the kits are), since I only play for fun.

Also just in case I missed it, is the harpy an character now or not? So confused what is a character and what is not.

[infornography]

A lot of people have been making harpies almost entirely out of the new hive tyrant kit. Just need to add a second big gun of whichever type you pick.

[rpricew]

Here is mine...

Carnifex with a torso swap (flipped it upside down). Removed the legs and put Scything talons there. Hive Tyrant Wings, and then TL devourers modified with Barbed Stranglers or Heavy Venom Cannons

[Bane Wordsmith]

That looks neat man. I don't have access to any pics of mine, but I'll upload when I get the chance. I used a Trygon head, carnifex body and tyrant tail, with a Trygon tail end attached to the end.
If it helps I got inspiration this this fellow; deathorglory-warhammer40k.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/tyranids-harpy.html?m=1
It's pretty impressive work.

I haven't based it yet, and was wondering what everyone else used? The large base a tyrant comes on? No-one would expect it on a Largeer base like the Trygons?